Hi confused muslim here

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- strangestdude
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #90 - January 12, 2012, 10:40 PM

You might be interested in reading; Being good by Simon Blackburn, and Sophie's world by Jostein Gaarder - if you're looking to find a philosophical position to guide you're life. They seem to be great reads (I've read chunks) - they don't tell you what to believe, but help you to arrive at your own conclusions by providing perspectives.

I also recommend Evid3nc3's youtube channel. Although it's a channel critiquing Islam, he simultaneously presents his naturalist based philosophical position. (he gives loads of book recommendations)

http://www.youtube.com/user/evid3nc3

(His deconversion series is one of the most insightful and moving accounts you'll see anywhere)

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
- osmanthus
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #91 - January 12, 2012, 10:44 PM

Quote from: jon_confused on January 12, 2012, 10:35 PM
how do i change the settings osmanthus?

IIRC there's a icon on the toolbar, next to the address window. I rarely open IE8 as I only use it for occasional testing. Horrible bloody thing.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #92 - January 12, 2012, 10:49 PM

i cant see it man, is it in tools, safety, page etc etc???
- osmanthus
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #93 - January 12, 2012, 10:55 PM

I haven't used IE8 for ages. You want to use IE8, you find it.

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- nj7
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #94 - January 12, 2012, 11:54 PM

Hi Jon, here's a couple of things off the top of my head you might find useful:

On the setting place of the sun in a muddy pool Quite different to other articles you may have read on this. At the very least this shows the Qur'an is not perfect as the words chosen cause legitimate doubts about its accuracy and at the very least looks *a lot* like it borrows from myths popular at the time.

Nice example of borrowing from Jewish Talmud (it's on wikiislam, but is nevertheless a good article with links to sources). As above, it would seem a blunder for an omniscient being to even make it look like the Quran has borrowed from the Talmud.

http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #95 - January 12, 2012, 11:58 PM

the jewish talmud article is very interesting. i dont know much about it as a scripture, would the scritpure definitely have been around near the arabian peninsular at the time of muhammad?

Ive heard of the muddy pool issue before, but this is one of the issues i hoped to get more details and evidences on as this verse is alleged t indicate the earth is flat so id like to properly research this issue
- nj7
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #96 - January 13, 2012, 12:05 AM

Yeah there were lots of Jewish communities around in Arabia which Muhammad, let's say, "interacted with". It didn't end well for some of them! I was helping someone with another project recently and found lots of Talmudic influence on the hadiths.

The article I linked to on the muddy spring is pretty detailed. There's a longer version too if you have a couple of hours, which has more detail than you could possibly want!

http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #97 - January 13, 2012, 12:07 AM

the muddy water article is the exact type of thing im looking for. Really detailed and evidence based and goes heavy into the arabic and traditional interpretations and everything. thank you for that, this is exactly the sort of thing im looking for
- BerberElla
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #98 - January 13, 2012, 12:07 AM

LOL @ the spoon feeding research.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #99 - January 13, 2012, 12:08 AM

so is it confirmed that the jews in arabia in his time were definitely in possession of the thalmud?
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #100 - January 13, 2012, 12:08 AM

berberalla, can I ask why your so rude? Cant you just not bother talking to me? why do you feel the urge to say something and why is it so difficult to fight back that urge? I think your trying to hard to be something else
- BerberElla
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #101 - January 13, 2012, 12:10 AM

When you stop being suspicious, sure thing.

It's as if you guys think we haven't seen this tactic before.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- BerberElla
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #102 - January 13, 2012, 12:11 AM

Quote from: jon_confused on January 13, 2012, 12:08 AM
I think your trying to hard to be something else

And what would that be? please enlighten me.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #103 - January 13, 2012, 12:12 AM

what tactic? I asked you before what exactly you think i would be trying to gain by coming here if i wasnt a doubtful muslim and you havent bothered to even reply? And who are "you" guys? Who do you think I am exactly?

Can you accept the possibility you might actually be wrong?
- Crunchy Cds
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #104 - January 13, 2012, 12:12 AM

To be sure Islam is truth you better read the BiBle, and Tanakh(Jewish holy texts) to make sure they are telling the truth (Since of course they were written before Muhammad showed up) While your at it research the hundreds of beliefs and religion which make up 70% of the people on earth who don't follow Islam.

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #105 - January 13, 2012, 12:14 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on January 13, 2012, 12:11 AM

And what would that be? please enlighten me.

before i give you my theory i wish to see if its just me you are rude to or everyone so let me have a look through your previous posts a minute.

Btw, being rude and confrontational is just giving me a headache, is there any way we can save the headache by me apologising and starting again with you guys because honestly i would prefer to spend my time reading through articles and discussing theology and maybe having a laugh at some of the casual threads, id prefer if you can drop the accusations and rudeness and we can start again?

If there is something you idslike from my posts why not just be direct and tell me as i havent intended to offend you
- BerberElla
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #106 - January 13, 2012, 12:18 AM

Quote from: jon_confused on January 13, 2012, 12:12 AM
what tactic? I asked you before what exactly you think i would be trying to gain by coming here if i wasnt a doubtful muslim and you havent bothered to even reply? And who are "you" guys? Who do you think I am exactly?

Can you accept the possibility you might actually be wrong?

Oh I've been wrong before, no doubt. But not about you.

It might be that you are not a troll, but if you're not a troll, then its simply that I can smell the right wing hatred off you from a mile off. Troll, right winger, same diff really.

I mean come on......."If Islam isn't true then there are 1.5b muslims who want to take over the world" ? get the fuck out of here, what sort of doubting muslim even says that sort thing?

All the muslims you know as a muslim want to take over the world?

Most of us ex muslims here know from experience that not all muslims want to take over the fucking world.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #107 - January 13, 2012, 12:20 AM

Quote from: Sakura02 on January 13, 2012, 12:12 AM
To be sure Islam is truth you better read the BiBle, and Tanakh(Jewish holy texts) to make sure they are telling the truth (Since of course they were written before Muhammad showed up) While your at it research the hundreds of beliefs and religion which make up 70% of the people on earth who don't follow Islam.

i already have access to a bible but not the jewish scripture, I actually enjoy these kinds of studies and comparisons so its not a wasted time for me although I take yoru point that if i was to systematcially go through every religion is would take more than one lifetime so need to think about what things to focus on etc. I do feel that the three monothestic faiths are a good starting point though and especially enjoy looking at christian muslim debates. i think as my knowledge grows, otehr religions could be picked off easier and of course, the big one is really the atheist discussion on the existence of god which I need to spend time on. i think atheism and the three monotheistic faiths are my best starting point, teh rest of religions can wait as they are starkly different and go into idol worship and multiple deity's which is another can of works and too much to deal with. i feel content spending my time researching these issues though as at least i know im striving for the truth and when i finally get there hopefully i will have finished my degree and be a little bit richer and freeer to travel and go fulfill my purpose in life whatever that will turn out to be
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #108 - January 13, 2012, 12:26 AM

ok so im glad that we have ascertained what you actually think, that im right wing. can you next clarify what do you think i am going to gain by being here?

just so you know, your totally wrong. i have offered out a hand of friendship to you guys and its up to you now, i cant be bothered to keep going round in circles on these discussions. you've admitted you've been wrong before. did you ever think, maybe i just have an eccentric personality or different outlook to a lot of people?

I already know most muslims dont have some plan to take over the world but i also know what would happen if islam took over the whole entire globe. definitely islamic politics would take centre stage. in north africa right now, average every day muslims have chosen for islamic governments. dont get me wrong, they seem quite chilled out at the moment and dont seem to threatening but they have opted for islamic governenance. Their idea for the future of the world would be different to the western vision. definitely they would be more conservative and stricter in their values and things would be prohibbitted that people would not prohibbit here in the west
- Crunchy Cds
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #109 - January 13, 2012, 12:44 AM

Compare Islamic countries with Chrisian/Aethist country, and tell me who has been blessed. Do research and Tell me what the happiest country in world? If Allah exists he's treating his devout followers like shit. I'm agnostic and I think that's unfair and shitty.

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #110 - January 13, 2012, 12:45 AM

lol i know sakura, true say
- Crunchy Cds
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #111 - January 13, 2012, 01:19 AM

I mean even though I personally don't support Islam. But apart of me wishes that for all the Muslims making duaa and praying everyday, don't have to live in poor conditions, hoping they don't get caught up in some kind of firefight or explosion, regardless of who the enemy is. The only way they can achieve their dreams and higher education is to go to Europe or countries run by 'kafirs' Why?

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #112 - January 13, 2012, 01:34 AM

Also Jon, being Muslim, Chrisian etc. Is just a label and regardless of which path you choose, don't do something or think in a certain way which makes you feel uncomfortable. Just do and believe what you feel is 'right' and dwell on positive feelings than negative ones. That's what counts not some stupid label you need to categorize yourself in.

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #113 - January 13, 2012, 01:41 AM

i know what you mean. im more of a researcher and thinker than a sort fo spritual person though, my feelings are generally to go out and commit every haraam imaginable but i realy worry when i think of my life ticking by and then dying and it stops me from letting go and just enjoying life because i worry what if im wrong, what if there is something after this life, what if there ISNT something after this life (thats a scary ass thought), it really messes with my mind
- BerberElla
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #114 - January 13, 2012, 01:44 AM

You sound like KT.

*increasing suspician

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- jon_confused
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #115 - January 13, 2012, 02:09 AM

whats KT?
- Solara
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #116 - January 13, 2012, 04:15 AM

Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
- moi
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #117 - January 13, 2012, 07:18 AM

Actually the autism comment makes sense, and Ber, I think you are wrong. I am probably autistic - I recommend formal testing but http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/arc_tests will give a good lead.

We are discussing racism on another thread. Disablism is equally important.

And mix it with Islam....

On Satanic Verses - yes it was a serious suggestion. And it sounds like some general reading would help.

I wonder if we need to compile a guide to leaving Islam, that would include scifi, literature, art, music, philosophy and science.

The need to look at the koran and the arabic is fascinating. Maybe that needs thinking about.

Would Wizard of Oz and surrealism be required studies?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- moi
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #118 - January 13, 2012, 07:26 AM

I have a personal theory that high functioning autism and religion do not mix. Maybe we should seek out autistic muslims because they will not be making sense of it.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- Solara
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Re: Hi confused muslim here
Reply #119 - January 13, 2012, 07:29 AM

My mom claims I have asperger's. Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
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