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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello Everyone

 (Read 4996 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hello Everyone
     OP - March 07, 2012, 09:46 AM

    Hello Everyone,
    I joined this forum, from the desire to give a reply to a link post on YouTube.I am not an ex anything, however I am a historian interested in the Arab world, that for some time I want to write an article on a sensitive issue, related to the Arab culture.

    So when the article will be ready, I will post a link to ask for your opinion!

    I live in Europe, Romania, Bucharest, and my name is Victor


    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #1 - March 07, 2012, 09:52 AM

    She was your daughter Victor, Sonja was your daughter and you killed her just because she fell in love with a werewolf.  Can any father have been any crueler? Cry 

    On a more serious not, Welcome.   parrot



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #2 - March 07, 2012, 12:18 PM

    Welcome dude,

    An anti-atheist? Christian?

    Check this out... http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=18424.0
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #3 - March 07, 2012, 01:47 PM

    Thanks to everyone!

    Orthodox, to be more specific ...
    Actually there are some atheists on youtube, which posted some videos, with this question ( the 3 omni), I want to answer them, but I am in a crisis of inspiration, I needs something foreign and exotic for my video sound background. Something like some... some ... Arabic Orthodox music  Wink I heard that you have some extremely beautiful pieces. Any suggestions?

    About the three omni.
    God said, only twice something about him and its attributes ( from the Christian point of view )
    - I Am that I Am (Hebrew: אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎, pronounced Ehyeh asher ehyeh)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am

    - I am the alpha and the omega
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #4 - March 07, 2012, 01:54 PM

    VyckRo, since you are so confident that you have the keys to "truth", please share any evidence you have that your particular brand of religion is true and is based in reality instead of in wishful thinking and/or fear and/or circular reasoning (something is not true just by the thing or its followers saying it is true; there needs to be independent, verifiable proof that anyone else can see for themselves in order for something to be considered "true").

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #5 - March 07, 2012, 04:26 PM

    @allat

    There are two ideas that I want to specify first:
    1) I never said, nor here nor elsewhere that I whant to evangelize, actually my "particular brand of religion" forbids its members to do evangelism of their on. That's how my church has remained one ( whit 2 or 3 small subdivisions), while the Western church generated 30,000 smaller churches.
    2) In almost 3 years of YouTube, in daily discussions with atheists, I've heard all the arguments. And ...
    I hope that I do not offend you, but if you are an atheist I am already whit 7-9 moves ahead of you.

    I'll take your question as a general, so to present some evidence that I have outside my "wishful thinking" for Christianity / Orthodoxy.

    For this I will use an Arab thinker ( if I will be on an atheist forum, I would will used Friedrich Nietzsche, or Voltaire )

    His name is Theodor Abu Qurrah
    Abu Qurrah used a thought experiment in which he imagined that he has grown up, on a mountain top, away from  any religion. And one day descended to analyze the religions of man.

    It uses three principles, to discover the true religion.

    If a God exists, he has a message for humanity, and is a just God then:

    1) He has to send his messengers to all ends of the earth. This is crucial, to demonstrate that, he uses an analogy  very common in the early Islamic period.

    If a man has 50 servants, and requires only some of them to cultivated the land, and then ask  all of them  to present him the fruits of the earth, then how just is him?

    He must do so as his messengers, to reach all nations, which to have the possibility to reject his message or not

    2) His message must be sent in all earth languages.
    Again he uses the example with the ruler that has servants who speak different languages, but if he send his message in a "holy language" that only a small part are able to comprehend then is He a just  God?
    Therefore he must do so as his message to get to be preached in all earth languages.

    3) His original Messengers, must show signs and miracles, to show that their message is really is  from God.
    Again he is using the example of the 50 servants, which all receive a letter with a message, but his message is not accompanied by his seal and his signature. And the servants, they do not know from who it came.
    Does he have the right to punish then and still consider himself a " just  God"?

    analysis!
    1) Of all religions of earth, only Christianity has the command to be preached to the ends of the world, and only Christianity hes followed this command whit unprecedented fanaticism.

    2) The Bible is the most translated book in the world, missionaries went even to the smallest tribes from africa and amazon, learned that language and preached the New Testament message.

    3) Jesus died and rose again the third day and in doing so, He defeated the death itself.
    His apostles performed miracles too, that are remembered even today in the popular tradition, of the countries in which they preached.

    -----
    I hope you have asked of me, if i have a rational faith, and if this is what you asked for me, I have shown you that.
    But I hope that you do not want to turn this in a skeptical - sophistical battle,because in accordance with skeptical philosophy, to any argument of your I can  oppose an opposed argument to infinity.

    see:
    „To every argument an equal argument is opposed” ( Sextus Empiricus, Pyrrhoniene Sketches, I, 12)



    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #6 - March 07, 2012, 04:36 PM

    About the three omni.
    God said, only twice something about him and its attributes ( from the Christian point of view )
    - I Am that I Am (Hebrew: אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎, pronounced Ehyeh asher ehyeh)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am

    - I am the alpha and the omega
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega



    How do you know God said that?
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #7 - March 07, 2012, 04:39 PM

    @allat

    There are two ideas that I want to specify first:
    1) I never said, nor here nor elsewhere that I whant to evangelize, actually my "particular brand of religion" forbids its members to do evangelism of their on.


    That sounds like they are trying to prevent people from being exposed to counter arguments...

    Quote
    For this I will use an Arab thinker ( if I will be on an atheist forum, I would will used Friedrich Nietzsche, or Voltaire )


    This is an ex-muslim forum, not an Arab forum. And the ethnicity/cultural background of a person doesn't matter to most people here, arguments are judged on their own merit.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #8 - March 07, 2012, 04:45 PM

    How do you know God said that?

    "Because the Bible is the most translated book in the world!"

    Or something.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #9 - March 07, 2012, 04:45 PM

     Cheesy
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #10 - March 07, 2012, 04:55 PM

    allat
    Quote
    VyckRo, since you are so confident that you have the keys to "truth"


    just a question, from where you have drawn the logical conclusion that I believe that I "the keys to `truth` "?
    Certainly I have never claimed that, and in this post,and I do not claim that.
    I have just said that:  "I want to write an article on a sensitive issue, related to the Arab culture" so ?
    So from where originated your deduction

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #11 - March 07, 2012, 05:02 PM

    Quote
    That sounds like they are trying to prevent people from being exposed to counter arguments...


    No, In fact prevents that any crazy dude to go and preach any madness, as you see in U.S.
    Actually is the opposite of what you say, because sectarianism provides opportunities for everyone to come with there on arguments

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #12 - March 07, 2012, 05:05 PM

    Quote
    How do you know God said that?

    The tradition ... that was recorded very early! and it was no time for a legend to be born!

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #13 - March 07, 2012, 05:09 PM

     if at all you rest your belief it should remain open to option , denying the unseen is the easiest thing to do.
    Agree'd that people before our times had the advantage of laying the foundation for ages to come. We stand at crossroads with all the different tributaries now clashing with each other because of the internet age.

    the most important thing to unlearn from islam is to behave like a closed mind and shutting down to possibilities. thats easy , simply change the command line which says " everything is BS because there is no way to prove what we cant see" to " Anything is possible, and im open to learn and to feel what others feel so strongly about."

    Weather there is a particular intelligent being that created everything, and he expects us to feed its ego or any other case. It is ineveitatble that we would find out one way or another. Beyond those possibilities the question to ask oneself is "do i want to rest my case and jump conclude it ?" <- thats BS imho.

    what will the smart people be doing when they dilluded people kill each other  based on "The adventures of slave hunting by a bipolar prophet." -- facepalm i guess.. xD

    Ending this insanity of islam in itself is a religion but is it right to tell them that there is nothing out there, so wake up to a reality of a dead end.;to  people who actually FEEL and sense a live god naturally. Everyone senses divinity at some point or so i wrongly assume.

    The so called god dillusion has saved my life. and done so much beyond explaination . There is nothing in this universe that can make me deny the magic that i have personally experienced. and that happens if only one keeps oneself open minded.

    All i know is what was told,
    All i think is what i know,
    All i am is what i think,
    All i know NOT is who i am.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #14 - March 07, 2012, 08:41 PM

    The tradition ... that was recorded very early! and it was no time for a legend to be born!


    What tradition? Please can you try to be more specific with your answers.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #15 - March 07, 2012, 09:38 PM

    Abu Qurrah used a thought experiment in which he imagined that he has grown up, on a mountain top, away from  any religion. And one day descended to analyze the religions of man.

    It uses three principles, to discover the true religion.

    If a God exists, he has a message for humanity, and is a just God then:

    This is terrible argumentation. You're assuming that:

    1/ God exists and
    2/ God has a message for humans and
    3/ God is just

    What you are trying to do is make everyone accept your three assumptions, and then proceeding on the basis that if those three are correct then you should be looking for a "true religion". Unless you can provide evidence for these assumptions, there is no reason to even begin looking for a "true religion".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #16 - March 08, 2012, 01:14 AM

    allat
    just a question, from where you have drawn the logical conclusion that I believe that I "the keys to `truth` "?
    Certainly I have never claimed that, and in this post,and I do not claim that.
    I have just said that:  "I want to write an article on a sensitive issue, related to the Arab culture" so ?
    So from where originated your deduction


    From the "About Me" section on your YouTube channel:

    Quote
    About Me:
     
    I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
    And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages: light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, through whom all things were made;
    Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man.
    And he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried.
    And on the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    And He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.
    And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.
    In one, Holy, Universal and Apostolic Church.
    I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. Amen.
    Amen.


    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #17 - March 08, 2012, 01:24 AM

    @allat

    There are two ideas that I want to specify first:
    1) I never said, nor here nor elsewhere that I whant to evangelize, actually my "particular brand of religion" forbids its members to do evangelism of their on. That's how my church has remained one ( whit 2 or 3 small subdivisions), while the Western church generated 30,000 smaller churches.


    You sure do evangelize a lot on YouTube and around the Internet for someone who is forbidden from doing so.

    2) In almost 3 years of YouTube, in daily discussions with atheists, I've heard all the arguments. And ...
    I hope that I do not offend you, but if you are an atheist I am already whit 7-9 moves ahead of you.


    In almost 20 years of questioning religions, I hope you are not offended, but I am miles ahead of you.

    However, I did not realize we were playing a board game. Religion is more of a bored game.

    I'll take your question as a general, so to present some evidence that I have outside my "wishful thinking" for Christianity / Orthodoxy.

    For this I will use an Arab thinker ( if I will be on an atheist forum, I would will used Friedrich Nietzsche, or Voltaire )


    As others have stated, this is an ex-muslim forum, not an Arab forum. I, for example, am not Arab. Or can you only relate to the world through these compartmentalizing discourses wherein everyone can be defined solely by his/her "race", ethnicity or religion??

    His name is Theodor Abu Qurrah
    Abu Qurrah used a thought experiment in which he imagined that he has grown up, on a mountain top, away from  any religion. And one day descended to analyze the religions of man.

    It uses three principles, to discover the true religion.

    If a God exists, he has a message for humanity, and is a just God then:

    1) He has to send his messengers to all ends of the earth. This is crucial, to demonstrate that, he uses an analogy  very common in the early Islamic period.

    If a man has 50 servants, and requires only some of them to cultivated the land, and then ask  all of them  to present him the fruits of the earth, then how just is him?

    He must do so as his messengers, to reach all nations, which to have the possibility to reject his message or not

    2) His message must be sent in all earth languages.
    Again he uses the example with the ruler that has servants who speak different languages, but if he send his message in a "holy language" that only a small part are able to comprehend then is He a just  God?
    Therefore he must do so as his message to get to be preached in all earth languages.

    3) His original Messengers, must show signs and miracles, to show that their message is really is  from God.
    Again he is using the example of the 50 servants, which all receive a letter with a message, but his message is not accompanied by his seal and his signature. And the servants, they do not know from who it came.
    Does he have the right to punish then and still consider himself a " just  God"?


    Blah blah blah. Nice esoteric, uncited myth. Is that supposed to convince anyone? Cheesy

    analysis!
    1) Of all religions of earth, only Christianity has the command to be preached to the ends of the world, and only Christianity hes followed this command whit unprecedented fanaticism.

    2) The Bible is the most translated book in the world, missionaries went even to the smallest tribes from africa and amazon, learned that language and preached the New Testament message.

    3) Jesus died and rose again the third day and in doing so, He defeated the death itself.
    His apostles performed miracles too, that are remembered even today in the popular tradition, of the countries in which they preached.


    PROVE these points. You are only saying them. Particularly points 1 and 3, PROVE THEM or admit you have no proof (i.e. you have only belief in them, not provable knowledge).

    I hope you have asked of me, if i have a rational faith, and if this is what you asked for me, I have shown you that.


    No you have not. All you've done is state the same old same old unsupportable claims lots of religionists claim about their religion being true, without having any actual PROOF of it.

    But I hope that you do not want to turn this in a skeptical - sophistical battle,because in accordance with skeptical philosophy, to any argument of your I can  oppose an opposed argument to infinity.


    Difference is, you claim to have an end point to your philosophy: Orthodox Christianity. We here are more about asking questions about religion than about imposing one brand of it over others, especially with ZERO proof for any of them.

    see:
    „To every argument an equal argument is opposed” ( Sextus Empiricus, Pyrrhoniene Sketches, I, 12)


    Read anything more contemporary lately?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #18 - March 08, 2012, 04:14 AM

    Hello Everyone,
    I joined this forum, from the desire to give a reply to a link post on YouTube.I am not an ex anything, however I am a historian interested in the Arab world, that for some time I want to write an article on a sensitive issue, related to the Arab culture.

    So when the article will be ready, I will post a link to ask for your opinion!

    I live in Europe, Romania, Bucharest, and my name is Victor




     Szia, Victor!  And welcome to our small sliver of the internet!
    I look forward to reading your writings.


    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #19 - March 08, 2012, 02:53 PM

    @allat

    Quote
    From the "About Me" section on your YouTube channel:

    "I believe in one God," note the word "believe" probably is a "believe" that I probably have...  Roll Eyes
    Quote
    "You sure do evangelize a lot on YouTube and around the Internet for someone who is forbidden from doing so."


    evangelize, evangelise
    vb
    1. (Christianity / Protestantism) to preach the Christian gospel or a particular interpretation of it (to)
    2. (intr) to advocate a cause with the object of making converts
    evangelization , evangelisation n
    evangelizer , evangeliser n
    -----
    see
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/evangelize
    ---

    Not really what I do, is to opposed logical arguments, to the atheist anti-theist propaganda.
    In general I have a problem with the atheists conflict with history. Atheists are about to create a new history, that will support their assumptions.
    Some, atheist myths that I love to address:
    That in the Middle Ages, most people believe the earth is flat.( used for Christianity but for Islam too) see The Flat Earth Myth
    There was a period in European history called "Dark Ages"
    Christianity / Islam a religion of the Bronze Age
    There are no archaeological evidence for the Bible.
    Millions of atheists "free thinkers" killed by the Inquisition
    Galileo Galilei  tortured and imprisoned.
    On the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea was decided the composition of the bible.
    Buddhism is an atheistic religion
    Hypatia of Alexandria murdered for her atheism
    Voltaire was an Atheist
    Albert Einstein  an Atheist
    Darwin was an Atheist
    America was founded by atheists, on atheistic principles
    Nobody was killed in the name of atheism.
    Easter was originally a pagan festival connected whit goddess Ishtar
    people were killed in the name of all religions, less, Buddhism.
    The war between “Science and Religion"
    In Christianity dissection, were prohibited
    There was a Pope who excommunicated a comet

    Quote
    "In almost 20 years of questioning religions, I hope you are not offended, but I am miles ahead of you."

    - no chance
    Quote
    "Blah blah blah. Nice esoteric, uncited myth. Is that supposed to convince anyone?"


    - words are put in my mouth, I just said, that I provide a logical argument for my belief.
    Atheists on  Internet have a real obsession that, that people are trying to convert them. The obsession is so great that they end by seeing
    in any theist a adversary trying to convert them.
    My story is exactly the reverse, I whas attacked, by atheist, and i still am, that are trying to prove me that there is NO GOD.
    an so I attack atheistic arguments that is all.

    Quote
    "PROVE these points. You are only saying them. Particularly points 1 and 3, PROVE THEM or admit you have no proof (i.e. you have only belief in them, not provable knowledge)."

    -That is common sens, we are talking about facts

    Quote
    Difference is, you claim to have an end point to your philosophy: Orthodox Christianity. We here are more about asking questions about religion than about imposing one brand of it over others, especially with ZERO proof for any of them.


    StrawMan!!! 
    You have a very strong obsession that someone is trying to convert you. I've never tried a to  impose anything on anyone.
    I attack ideas formulated by atheist as:
    "without Christianity Christopher Columbus would have landed on the moon"
    or
    "without religion, humanity would have already colonized the entire universe"
    These are clearly statements made by atheist ... this is what I do, this is what I always did.

    Quote
    "Read anything more contemporary lately?"

    Richard Dawkins God Delusion, Facepalm to that, if this is the best you have ... I do not have what to fear Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #20 - March 08, 2012, 02:54 PM

    This is terrible argumentation. You're assuming that:

    1/ God exists and
    2/ God has a message for humans and
    3/ God is just



    Yes I was asked to provide arguments for,  my "particular brand of religion" not for religion in general. I see the subject of the discussion, continue to move.
    That's like asking someone what a tomato is ,If that person say is a Fruit, then you say What is a Fruit? If he says it is the part of a plant, wou say please define what a plant is?  And so by moving the objective, the impression is created that the person asked is incapable to answer a simple question.

    About the existence of something, you can never demonstrate an absolute existence, you can not demonstrate that external reality exists, or that there are other minds out of yours, or that history is not a an illusion of a Matrix, and existence begins in 1920.
    But arguments can be brought to show the rationality of abelief.

    I believe there are other minds, because other people come up with arguments that I never thought, but that is no absolute proof. Maybe I'm a Hindu deity and I am dreaming the world.

    So what arguments I found  convincing for God,

    Starting from the Ontological argument, already explained by the Anselm of Canterbury.Rene Descartes, Mulla Sadra. I ask myself if I am the only one to  imagine that there is something beyond nature if I am the only one then  I have to accept that maybe I'm wrong, but for all the world's civilization, and all the cultures, in the history of humanity, something existed beyond nature. It's like an experiment that has been tried hundreds of times, in all the possible geographic locations, in all historical periods, by people belonging to all races, and every time the answer was the same.
    Then if something exists beyond nature then this existence must have a limit point, a point of greatest intensity and of greatest existence,so I belief  in a coherent concept

    Then starting from the Fyodor Dostoyevsky  argument, that If God  do not exists then anything is possible even cannibalism!
    I accept the argument from morality

    If God does not exist, then objective morality does not exist, and we have no ethical or moral obligations
    But objective morality exists, and we have moral and ethical  obligations.

    And this is how,  "The Brothers Karamazov" influenced my spiritual development.

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #21 - March 08, 2012, 02:55 PM

    Szia, Victor!  And welcome to our small sliver of the internet!
    I look forward to reading your writings.


    Thank you!

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #22 - March 08, 2012, 02:58 PM

    @allat
    @osmanthus
    In what you guys believe? Can you demonstrate that your system of beliefs is accurate? dance parrot  Afro

    I want to live for immortality, and I will accept no compromise. from F.Dostoyevsky
    Le XXI?me si?cle sera spirituel ou ne sera pas - Andr? Malraux
    Eu cand discut cu un ateu e ca si cum as discuta cu usa - Petre Tutea
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #23 - March 08, 2012, 03:42 PM

    I provide a logical argument for my belief.

    I don't think logical means what you think it means.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #24 - March 08, 2012, 04:22 PM

    She was your daughter Victor, Sonja was your daughter and you killed her just because she fell in love with a werewolf.  Can any father have been any crueler? Cry 

    That movie was crappy as hell. Tried many time to get the chronology right, it never makes any sense. Not to mention idiotic stuff like “The elder, who are like older by 20 or 30 years than the others, have to sleep a lot because they are old” (WTF) or “We give you a crapload of details about what happened hundreds of years ago, but absolutely no information about how the vampire society is now. You will never know how many vampire clans there are, what are their relation, who has power or anything. Some goes for werewolves. Assume that everyone important is living in the same clan instead of leading his own clan because it's easier to fit in one movie”.

    Well, the stole everything from White Wolf, but they forgot one thing : talent !
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #25 - March 08, 2012, 04:28 PM

    In what you guys believe? Can you demonstrate that your system of beliefs is accurate? dance parrot  Afro

    I believe in a pink invisible unicorn. I can prove it.
    First, the scripture says there is an invisible pink unicorn. We cannot see the unicorn, even with the most advanced systems. Therefore, the unicorn truly is invisible, which means the scripture is true. And if the scripture is true, then it must follow that the invisible unicorn is pink.
    Second : nothing beats a horse with a phallic symbol on his head. Proof is the huge success of My Little Pony among grown ups, which is a definite and undeniable miracle brought on us by the pink invisible unicorn.


    See ? Both reason and facts proves that there is a pink invisible unicorn.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #26 - March 08, 2012, 08:24 PM

    That movie was crappy as hell.

    Yeah but Kate Beckinsdale looks awesome in a black leather jumpsuit. Get you priorities right. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #27 - March 08, 2012, 09:20 PM

    Then starting from the Fyodor Dostoyevsky  argument, that If God  do not exists the anything is possible even cannibalism!
    I accept the argument from morality


    Check this out...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUpzTtLhg2c
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #28 - March 08, 2012, 09:24 PM

    Yeah but Kate Beckinsdale looks awesome in a black leather jumpsuit. Get you priorities right. Tongue

    I can understand you point, even though I don't share it. I'd rather watch that movie someone (I don't remember who) posted around here, Near Dark.
  • Re: Hello Everyone
     Reply #29 - March 25, 2012, 03:27 AM

    I'll take your question as a general, so to present some evidence that I have outside my "wishful thinking" for Christianity / Orthodoxy.

    For this I will use an Arab thinker ( if I will be on an atheist forum, I would will used Friedrich Nietzsche, or Voltaire )

    His name is Theodor Abu Qurrah
    Abu Qurrah used a thought experiment in which he imagined that he has grown up, on a mountain top, away from&#160; any religion. And one day descended to analyze the religions of man.

    It uses three principles, to discover the true religion.

    If a God exists, he has a message for humanity, and is a just God then:


    Well, ignoring the fact that you don't really know if God exists, or if there's only one god or more, you don't know these statements are true either:

    1. That he has a message for humanity. (The deist god doesn't interfere at all for example.)
    2. That he is just. - In fact, if nature is anything to go by, it's quite an unjust place with unequal opportunities, with some lifeforms at the bottom of food chain and every member in constant danger of death or physical harm. - Then again I wouldn't be surprised if you just dismissed this argument because words (like "just") mean what you want them to mean.

    You're also relying o several other assumptions for example:

    - that God would reveal his message through a few fallible men
    - that God even needs to reveal a message - Why not just tell everyone who he is and keep in contact with them? - I mean think about how ridiculous this sounds, it would be like Obama hiding in a bunker all day and only communicating through a few appointed officials. This is just not a rational way to communicate with human beings.
    - that God is this totalitarian dictator / absolute monarch figure


    1) He has to send his messengers to all ends of the earth. This is crucial, to demonstrate that, he uses an analogy&#160; very common in the early Islamic period.

    If a man has 50 servants, and requires only some of them to cultivated the land, and then ask&#160; all of them&#160; to present him the fruits of the earth, then how just is him?

    He must do so as his messengers, to reach all nations, which to have the possibility to reject his message or not[/b]


    No religion has ever been equally spread, who reached out to the Native Americans for example for almost 1500 years? Even today you might find some obscure tribe that doesn't know any better.


    2) His message must be sent in all earth languages.
    Again he uses the example with the ruler that has servants who speak different languages, but if he send his message in a "holy language" that only a small part are able to comprehend then is He a just&#160; God?
    Therefore he must do so as his message to get to be preached in all earth languages.


    Qur'an has also been translated in multiple languages

    3) His original Messengers, must show signs and miracles, to show that their message is really is&#160; from God.
    Again he is using the example of the 50 servants, which all receive a letter with a message, but his message is not accompanied by his seal and his signature. And the servants, they do not know from who it came.
    Does he have the right to punish then and still consider himself a " just&#160; God"?


    I love it when a theist makes my argument for me.

    Yes, I reject Christianity because it doesn't come with his "seal and signature". I haven't seen any "miracles" so far, only people tell me about them and being unconvincing. And I have good reasons to believe the "seal and signature" is counterfeit.

    analysis!
    1) Of all religions of earth, only Christianity has the command to be preached to the ends of the world, and only Christianity hes followed this command whit unprecedented fanaticism.


    Dawah rings a bell?

    2) The Bible is the most translated book in the world, missionaries went even to the smallest tribes from africa and amazon, learned that language and preached the New Testament message.


    Unfortunately there's no logical connection

    3) Jesus died and rose again the third day and in doing so, He defeated the death itself.
    His apostles performed miracles too, that are remembered even today in the popular tradition, of the countries in which they preached.


    Unfortunately, no way to actually verify that. If you can make solid case that would stand up in a court, I'd love to hear it.

    I hope you have asked of me, if i have a rational faith, and if this is what you asked for me, I have shown you that.


    What you have provided isn't solid enough to count as "rational", it's highly speculative (and misleading) and you need more justification, especially for something as extraordinary as God.

    But I hope that you do not want to turn this in a skeptical - sophistical battle,because in accordance with skeptical philosophy, to any argument of your I can&#160; oppose an opposed argument to infinity.

    see:
    &#38;#8222;To every argument an equal argument is opposed&#38;#8221; ( Sextus Empiricus, Pyrrhoniene Sketches, I, 12)


    The thing is we are not on equal footing here. I'm not the one making the positive claim, you are.

    Unless you can show it, it doesn't even matter if a person is atheist or agnostic, from a practical point of view, the assumption will always be that there is no God.



    Oh and Ontological argument is a joke. Can be summed up to "God is perfect, perfection implies existence, therefore God exists". It's a word game, rephrased in various ways over centuries, as if one can simply define things into existence.

    Quote
    Then starting from the Fyodor Dostoyevsky  argument, that If God  do not exists then anything is possible even cannibalism!
    I accept the argument from morality


    The thing I don't like about this argument is that you're basically admitting morality doesn't really matter. It's nothing but the arbitrary whims of a celestial being. I mean you can forget about pain/pleasure of sentient beings, you can forget about short-term and long-term benefit for society and/or individuals (with a balance between the two in the form of inalienable human rights - i.e. you'll respect this person's rights even if it's detrimental for society) - You're telling me nothing of that sort really matters or it's not valid until God says it is?

    You don't need a celestial cop to know this dude, you just need to be a rational and non-sociopathic human being.

    Now there is the problem of enforcing morality - and my answer is, tough luck - humans have to police themselves and that's the only way you'll get justice.
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