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 Topic: Was the Creation of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?

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  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #120 - November 17, 2012, 04:47 PM


    Israel's creation can be called a big mistake... but then again... by that statement... all of history seems like a big mistake Tongue

    By the standard of history... the creation of the state of Israel is a rather small deal quite frankly.
    Genocide, war, expansion of territory, ethnic cleansing, colonization, resource theft... our history books are filled with them.  What the hell is the big deal with Israel.
    It's just been kept high due to religion, that it involves some 'western people' like the jews, and that it was formed in the sense of international bureaucracy.

    I used to be pretty anti-Israel... more from the anti-colonial view. I was born in South Africa under apartheid... so I know a thing or two about growing up as a minority like that. I viewed the Israelis not much different from the whites in South Africa... just coming in and taking over. Since then, I've just ceased to care that much looking at history and just think people need to move on.
    Who was wronged. The Jews were wronged... and they lost their rule of Israel back in the day.  They were wronged in the holocaust. The Israelis then wronged the Arabs by creating the state in Palestine.... Since then, everyone has felt they were wronged and politicians have screwed everyone.

    As a side note... why do people think creating Israel in the congo would have been a better option?  I suppose the blacks wouldn't mind a group of white people taking over a part of the country...  like seriously people. Someone had to be screwed over... heck they could have created Israel in the middle of the Sahara desert and there would have probably would have been war with some nomadic African tribe.
    And looking at the violence in the Congo... my guess is a Jewish state in the congo might have been even bloodier and more violent.

  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #121 - November 17, 2012, 05:05 PM

    .............................

    As a side note... why do people think creating Israel in the congo would have been a better option?  I suppose the blacks wouldn't mind a group of white people taking over a part of the country...  like seriously people. Someone had to be screwed over... heck they could have created Israel in the middle of the Sahara desert and there would have probably would have been war with some nomadic African tribe.
    And looking at the violence in the Congo... my guess is a Jewish state in the congo might have been even bloodier and more violent.

    Not necessarily ..But did Jewish bible or Torah say  that Congo is nothing but juicy Jerusalem  scamper_22??  Do you know who forwarded  that idea ??
    Early 20th century and even 19th century European rulers and  European Christians  were not only EGOCENTRIC but it was racist and antisemitic continent.. They had the power to propose anything they like..

    Incidentally there were  several plans/proposals  and some of the proposals came from Jews and their supporters, as well as their detractors and anti-Semites. They all have put forwarded  plans for Jewish states. Now tell me where did you get this news of "creating Israel in the Congo" ??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #122 - November 17, 2012, 05:17 PM

    @yeezevee
    " Now tell me where did you get this creating Israel in the Congo ??

    Umm... from the Original question and to the more general point that people say the Jews could have created their state anywhere.  My answer is the same... some 'people' would have been screwed over for that to happen.

    ---------
    ‘The Congo State has land enough which we can use for our settlement. We can take over part of the responsibilities, that is, pay an annual tax, which may be fixed later, to the Congo State, in return for which we naturally lay claim to self-government … If King Leopold turns a willing ear to the matter, I shall go to see him at once.’
    Theodor Herzl, 12 July, 1903 in Raphael Patai (ed.),
    The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl, Vol. IV
    (New York: Herzl Press, 1960), pp. 1511–12
    ------------------
  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #123 - November 17, 2012, 06:25 PM

    Quote
    @yeezevee
    " Now tell me where did you get this creating Israel in the Congo ??


    ‘The Congo State has land enough which we can use for our settlement. We can take over part of the responsibilities, that is, pay an annual tax, which may be fixed later, to the Congo State, in return for which we naturally lay claim to self-government … If King Leopold turns a willing ear to the matter, I shall go to see him at once.’
    Theodor Herzl, 12 July, 1903 in Raphael Patai (ed.),
    The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl, Vol. IV
    (New York: Herzl Press, 1960), pp. 1511–12
    ------------------

      that guy..  Russian Juice., I thought he was trying to move any where in the world. and his proposal was today's Kenya and Uganda well I guess at that time there was NO African states ..everything was British colony.. Well Herzl was actually a progressive guy. he wanted some sort of utopian Jewish.. state anywhere in the world including that Andinia Plan  to establish a Jewish state in parts of Argentina., and then there was  that Madagascar plan  suggested   Nazi Hitler  to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar and some one proposed a   Jewish Homeland  in  British Guiana (now Guyana) ..  President Roosevelt wanted to move Jewish folks to  Alaska .. So what??    every tom dick proposed many plans.. But one must realize the present Arabia all the way in & around Jerusalem was their original land from bible times..

    Quote
    Umm... from the Original question and to the more general point that people say the Jews could have created their state anywhere.  My answer is the same... some 'people' would have been screwed over for that to happen.

    There  is little doubt these folks were persecuted through out History.. since the time of Moses(if he was areal figure) Clearly Egyptian history proves that.. Better thing is educating the folks about Abrahamic  religions  if not all religions.  And..  and tell the Muslim folks  of ARABIAN PENINSULA that they were actually a sect of Jews that were screwed by Arabian BEDOUINS A unevolved  species that turned those lands in to a war zone and  on the way converting Jewish folks along with usurping Jewish/Christian  stories  and  and writing a silly book called Quran  with dumb chapter names like........ ELEPHANT......COW.................DOG...........WOMEN....
    Quote
    AL-FIL (THE ELEPHANT)., Total Verses: 5 Revealed At: MAKKA

    105.001: Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with the possessors of the elephant?

    105.002: Did He not cause their war to end in confusion,

    105.003: And send down (to prey) upon them birds in flocks,

    105.004: Casting against them stones of baked clay,

    105.005: So He rendered them like straw eaten up?

    as words of Allah/god.. and those 5 silly statements become ONE BIIIG CHAPTER from allah.,   Silly nonsense.. That is what Palestinians are fighting about.. fighting for. ..    remove Islam.. at least Remove baboons in Islam, I WILL SOLVE PALESTINIAN  PROBLEM  in months if not weeks..
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #124 - November 17, 2012, 08:12 PM

    Israel's creation can be called a big mistake... but then again... by that statement... all of history seems like a big mistake Tongue

     Cheesy Wise words there. Afro

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #125 - November 18, 2012, 11:51 PM

    Not necessarily ..But did Jewish bible or Torah say  that Congo is nothing but juicy Jerusalem  scamper_22??  Do you know who forwarded  that idea ??
    Early 20th century and even 19th century European rulers and  European Christians  were not only EGOCENTRIC but it was racist and antisemitic continent.. They had the power to propose anything they like..

    Incidentally there were  several plans/proposals  and some of the proposals came from Jews and their supporters, as well as their detractors and anti-Semites. They all have put forwarded  plans for Jewish states. Now tell me where did you get this news of "creating Israel in the Congo" ??

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844674223/ref=cm_rdp_product
  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #126 - November 19, 2012, 01:59 AM


    Is that "Zand" book  for me Kodanshi?  did you read that book??  do you want me to read that ?? I am one of those guys that operates on the basis that  "No book is unquestionable and no one is unquestionable"..

    anyways let us read it ..here we go ..  Invention of Jewish People .. without inventing Jewish people in 20th century  that Juicy Zand would have been begging on Austrian Roads writing in support of some static Marxism or communism or some other totalitarianism

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #127 - November 19, 2012, 05:39 PM

    no because it has been a great deterrent to the reformation of any kind of islamic empire

    the creation of a modern sovereign palestinian state was a big mistake
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #128 - June 08, 2013, 05:57 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm3j6ZwPrcQ

    Mmmmmm    ...  Norman Finkelstein and  Hamza Tzortzis discusses What Will Bring Peace to the Middle East?  well let me put that here..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #129 - June 09, 2013, 05:25 PM

    Israel isn't comparable to Iraq or Bangladesh. Iraq. Iraq was the unification of vilayets bordering on the qajar dynasty Iran. it's mesopotamian vilayets. Those people didn't live in other parts of modern state of iraq, and that mesopotamian region was always since medieval times fairly multi-ethnic.   Israel however is almost purely a immigrant state. I'd rather compare Israel to Kosovo, rather than to Iraq or Bangladesh. The majority of jews who immigrated  to what was formerly the palestinian mandate, haven't lived in judea for over 2000 years, even if they descended from there.  It's as if Pakistanis all moved to york and declared it west-pakistan, would that be reasonable? Or if English people moved to copenhagen and declared it east england, becauses their ancestors were angles, jutes, and other south-scandinavian tribes.

    And this is not because of anti-semitic reasons. Israelis might aswell have been egyptian.  To me it's not a matter of  jews versus muslims, it's a matter of homeland. I would never even dream of immigrating somewhere with the ulterior purpose of taking it over and colonize it, and calling it my homeland & state.   If Israel is justified, then so is apartheid south-africa, so is the ethnic-cleansing in bosnia, or the take over of kosovo. And this is not because of some vestiges of my muslim political identity or some other stuff like that. It's a pure homeland argument. If jews can colonize anywhere, that means everyone should have the right to do the same. It's an argument in the belt of pro-imperialists and colonialists. Would anyone here be fine with their country and homeland being colonized?
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #130 - June 09, 2013, 06:06 PM

    Israel isn't comparable to Iraq or Bangladesh. Iraq. Iraq was the unification of vilayets bordering on the qajar dynasty Iran. it's mesopotamian vilayets. Those people didn't live in other parts of modern state of iraq, and that mesopotamian region was always since medieval times fairly multi-ethnic.   Israel however is almost purely a immigrant state.

    good point Pishte_Kooh  and welcome to jewden., Yes .. we should out how many countries on the planet are made with immigrants and purely immigrant states.. Just scan through the history of the globe..
    Quote
    I'd rather compare Israel to Kosovo, rather than to Iraq or Bangladesh. The majority of jews who immigrated  to what was formerly the palestinian mandate, haven't lived in judea for over 2000 years, even if they descended from there.  It's as if Pakistanis all moved to york and declared it west-pakistan, would that be reasonable? Or if English people moved to copenhagen and declared it east england, becauses their ancestors were angles, jutes, and other south-scandinavian tribes.

    I wonder whether we are comparing apples and oranges..

    Quote
    And this is not because of anti-semitic reasons. Israelis might aswell have been egyptian.  To me it's not a matter of  jews versus muslims, it's a matter of homeland. I would never even dream of immigrating somewhere with the ulterior purpose of taking it over and colonize it, and calling it my homeland & state.   If Israel is justified, then so is apartheid south-africa, so is the ethnic-cleansing in bosnia, or the take over of kosovo. And this is not because of some vestiges of my muslim political identity or some other stuff like that. It's a pure homeland argument. If jews can colonize anywhere, that means everyone should have the right to do the same. It's an argument in the belt of pro-imperialists and colonialists. Would anyone here be fine with their country and homeland being colonized?

    all those points are great points please read through Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?..

    you got to put some time in it to understand the dynamics of Israel/Palestine problem..  read the folder BACKWARD..  I mean page 25 to page 1....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #131 - June 19, 2013, 07:44 PM

    Israel's creation can be called a big mistake... but then again... by that statement... all of history seems like a big mistake Tongue

    By the standard of history... the creation of the state of Israel is a rather small deal quite frankly.
    Genocide, war, expansion of territory, ethnic cleansing, colonization, resource theft... our history books are filled with them.  What the hell is the big deal with Israel.
    It's just been kept high due to religion, that it involves some 'western people' like the jews, and that it was formed in the sense of international bureaucracy.

    I used to be pretty anti-Israel... more from the anti-colonial view. I was born in South Africa under apartheid... so I know a thing or two about growing up as a minority like that. I viewed the Israelis not much different from the whites in South Africa... just coming in and taking over. Since then, I've just ceased to care that much looking at history and just think people need to move on.
    Who was wronged. The Jews were wronged... and they lost their rule of Israel back in the day.  They were wronged in the holocaust. The Israelis then wronged the Arabs by creating the state in Palestine.... Since then, everyone has felt they were wronged and politicians have screwed everyone.

    As a side note... why do people think creating Israel in the congo would have been a better option?  I suppose the blacks wouldn't mind a group of white people taking over a part of the country...  like seriously people. Someone had to be screwed over... heck they could have created Israel in the middle of the Sahara desert and there would have probably would have been war with some nomadic African tribe.
    And looking at the violence in the Congo... my guess is a Jewish state in the congo might have been even bloodier and more violent



    You made some good points. A muslim guy I know said that Jews should go back to Germany , because ''their DNA'' is not from Middle East.  Guys like him will be the first to cry ''racism, fascism'' when EDL stages protest against mosques or when Geert Wilders complains about muslim immigrants.

    Seriously, Jews are not genetically compatible with middle-eastern people, but they are compatible with Africans?Huh?  whistling2whistling2

    I realised that God was too much like man to be God. by prince Spinoza
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #132 - June 22, 2013, 12:58 PM

    Quote


    You made some good points. A muslim guy I know said that Jews should go back to Germany , because ''their DNA'' is not from Middle East.  Guys like him will be the first to cry ''racism, fascism'' when EDL stages protest against mosques or when Geert Wilders complains about muslim immigrants.

    Seriously, Jews are not genetically compatible with middle-eastern people, but they are compatible with Africans.


    Well, yes, sephardic and ashkenazi jews (who are the majority of jewish israelis) are indeed not very middle-eastern genetically. Indeed the argument doesn't make sense, but muslims don't want to create homeland in britain or germany.
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #133 - June 23, 2013, 01:35 AM

    I think a Jewish state is needed. Wherever it may be. The Jews had no state and government that could retalliate upon a country if it mistreated the Jews. This made them an easy target. Let us not forget what happened during WW2. Speaking of mistreating people, the Arabs that used to live there before the Jewish state was formed, made an alliance with Hitler to give him all of the Jewish within the country. And I think some other Arab/muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia made the same agreements, to give over the Jews within their countries (I think KSA was willing to give them as a gift to Hitler). The only thing that stopped the plan was the invasion of Russia. Historical events simply happened and ended up in the salvation of the lives of millions of Jews. Had hitsory gone another way, the number of dead Jews could've been significantly bigger. When the plan failed the Arabs/muslims of Palestine under the leadership of the Mufti started discriminating against the Jews and treating them badly. An example would be them driving donkeys into the crongegation during Saturday prayer at the Wailing Wall.

    My Rules:
    1. I know bullshit when I see it.
    2. "Smart" comments will be ignored.
    3. Comments which aren't worthy of my time will be ignored.
    If I do not respond to your comment then it has fallen into the above categories.
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #134 - June 23, 2013, 10:31 AM

    @gilmari
    i will admit that the arab leadership did persecute a lot of jews. I will point out it wash't to give up the jews from there (though it was happening). The primary reason was oil for Hitler's war machine. Edwin black writes on this subject quite a bit and maybe to paraphrase him a bit mostly because i don't care to look up the quote. Jewish leadership wasn't any better then arab leadership. During WW2, Zionists jews in switzerland were offered a few million dollars for all of the jews that came from W. Europe. They turned this down because they wanted (and I think it is) "Sacrificed Lambs" to win support in places other then England for a Jewish state. After all of this the arabs get kicked out by Israel in 1948 in what's called the Nakba. Collectively punishing the Arabs for the crimes of a few. Now whatever the reason giving compensation to the jews is a little bit unfair if you think about it. The British starved out Bengal, India during the war. Why does nobody try to give them compensation they had millions die. What about Stalin's Massacres. To say the jews need compensation from WW2 when you avoid every other victim is kind of using like tunnel vision when looking at human rights. I don't think the jews deserve a state, but then again I don't think anybody is entitled to that. 

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #135 - June 28, 2013, 04:38 PM

    I've heard that it's because Palestine decided to side with communist Russia(not sure if it was Russia I think) wayy back in the Cold War I think.  Where Israel sided with America. Also America/ Europe needed an ally in the region so stragetically they set up Israel there as something of a watchdog. Another reason which isn't discussed is choosing the wrong allies NOT to say that America is the greatest ever by all means. But you cannot deny that countries that do suck up to America such as Saudia Arabic and Qatar and Turkey are better off (cha-ching). What? You think their oil money just falls out of the sky guess who they have to sell it to. And Saudi Arabia especially is able to get away with more shit.  Which is why I wonder why doesn't America feel sympathy for Palestine or even Syria but sends money to Pakistan and Egypt. So I mean it can't be an anti-Muslim thing.  >_>; It's all about who you can suck up to. Government/world power games is a dark ugly thing and the Jews knew from the beginning how to play it right. If Palestine was strategic instead of prideful and kissed the feet of the Western powers when it had the chance, Israel would not be there and Palestine would have America and Western powers pumping money into them not Israel.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #136 - June 29, 2013, 09:15 AM

    I think a Jewish state is needed. Wherever it may be. The Jews had no state and government that could retalliate upon a country if it mistreated the Jews. This made them an easy target. Let us not forget what happened during WW2. Speaking of mistreating people, the Arabs that used to live there before the Jewish state was formed, made an alliance with Hitler to give him all of the Jewish within the country. And I think some other Arab/muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia made the same agreements, to give over the Jews within their countries (I think KSA was willing to give them as a gift to Hitler). The only thing that stopped the plan was the invasion of Russia. Historical events simply happened and ended up in the salvation of the lives of millions of Jews. Had hitsory gone another way, the number of dead Jews could've been significantly bigger. When the plan failed the Arabs/muslims of Palestine under the leadership of the Mufti started discriminating against the Jews and treating them badly. An example would be them driving donkeys into the crongegation during Saturday prayer at the Wailing Wall.

    I'm sorry, but how does that give the burden of giving up land for jews to muslims?  Greece was also anti-semitic and was aligned to nazi-germany, yet no one talks about giving jews a homeland in europe(considering that the majority of jews at that time were european, while jews who lived in the middle-east were an almost assimilated minority). Europeans used their power to deal with problem of homeland for jews, on the expense of middle-easterners, so now you see the chaos created by sucha policy. Nazi germany who was the culprit and tons of other fascist supporting states, never had to give up their land to settle jews, neither did croats, or hungarians, italians or spaniards, or any of the countries who were involved with hitler. You also forget to mention that the mufti and the arab nationalists never gained decisive victories over the british and the french, the iraqi revolt was put down and pro-nazi goverment was replaced. So you cannot equate the iraqis, syrians, egyptians and palestinians who didn't have states, with hungarians, italians, germans, croats, spaniards, and ukrainians, romanians and what have you who acted with sovereignity to kill jews. Mufti wasn't even recognized as a sovereign leader over state by the world powers. Just as a figure of a movement.

    Like i said earlier, no european would accept immigrant state in their homeland. Why would you expect the arabs to do the same? Greeks colonized for millenium middle-eastern land (since antiquity), would you accept the reverse to happen to you?
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #137 - June 29, 2013, 11:25 AM

    I've heard that it's because Palestine decided to side with communist Russia(not sure if it was Russia I think) wayy back in the Cold War I think.


    The paragraph after this you have the right idea but I'm just going to correct this mistake. The second country to recognize israel was the USSR. I would have to get into egyptian politics which I wont but essentially late 50's early 60's Nasser started to align with Tito and kruschrev. US were allies with the arabs after ww2 untill the 60's (this is not counting the gulf which mostly was always aligned with britain and the US)

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #138 - July 10, 2013, 10:47 AM

    Yes. It serves the idea that a state should be made for a religious people. However, I have the same feelings towards Pakistan and any other country that has been created solely for religious reasons. 

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.~Albert Einstein

    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. ~Plato
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #139 - July 10, 2013, 11:20 AM

    Question: Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?

    Quote from: ILuvChocolate answers  link=topic=20067.msg696141#msg696141 date=1373453228
    Yes. ...............It serves the idea that a state should be made for a religious people. ........  


    Stop eating to many Chocolates  ..ILuvChocolate...  lol..

    In a perfect world  your answer makes sense. ,  And Jewish folks never had a state  for the past 2000 years unlike christans, muslims, hindus, buddhists, greek mythologists, pagans.. whatever....     and Jewish folks never had a land/governments   that could protect Jewish folks when problems arrive .  And we all know what  happened in 2nd world war.  Do you know  How many Jewish folks were expelled from so-called Islamic nations. after Israel was created?    

    And here where  you  abstained voting you should read  ALL THE POSTS in that folder.



    And what is the big deal when every one has Green Lands.. Yellow lands... Blue lands., Why not little red land for Jewish folks?   After all they are hardly  10 million people in the globe..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #140 - July 11, 2013, 03:06 AM

    ^ A lot of religious people don't have their own homeland, such as the Ba'hai etc. States that are created solely for religious reasons tend to persecute minorities of other religions & they tend to not offer them the same rights. Israel is here to stay, I understand that. But the reason for its establishment was unjust and I disagree with the methods that were used for its creation. Take note, I am neither pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian. I am for a state where both receive equal rights and are treated well.

    Anyhow, the past is the past. People should work towards the future.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.~Albert Einstein

    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. ~Plato
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #141 - July 11, 2013, 03:11 AM

    ^ A lot of religious people don't have their own homeland, such as the Ba'hai etc. States that are created solely for religious reasons tend to persecute minorities of other religions & they tend to not offer them the same rights. Israel is here to stay, I understand that. But the reason for its establishment was unjust and I disagree with the methods that were used for its creation. Take note, I am neither pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian. I am for a state where both receive equal rights and are treated well.

    Anyhow, the past is the past. People should work towards the future.


    Very good point Chocolate., I am telling   the people for a long time.,   remove the Islam,  specially political Islam  I will make A Palestinian as Prime minister of Israel ,,

    but no one listens to me  Huh? Cry finmad

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #142 - July 11, 2013, 08:21 AM

    Yezevee, you must understand that the land they sit on use to be other's land. Just because jews have been persecuted doesn't mean they deserve a state.

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #143 - July 24, 2013, 02:28 AM

    Yezevee, you must understand that the land they sit on use to be other's land. Just because jews have been persecuted doesn't mean they deserve a state.

    I understand that and more Sam Brent., If there was no  viral Islam that hates Jewish folks  I would have supported  and I will support Palestinians  without Islam but you must understand the fight between Jewish folks  and Muslims(NOT JUST PALESTINIANS) is not just  a piece of land,  It is  much more than that Sam., If it is a land problem Jews have vacated lot more land than what they have  now  in so-called Israel,   Since the  time of Prophet of Islam,  since the beginning of Islam  Jews   vacated more ;land than any faith heads any where on this earth. And in fact they vacated the land inside Saudi Arabia Sam..

    Now you watch the the 50 Years War: Israel And The Arabs .. Pleas watch Part-1 and 2...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJnSY-lvCJM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLorIXCcz4

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #144 - July 24, 2013, 03:17 PM

    Yes. It serves the idea that a state should be made for a religious people.

    Well, I'm not so sure about it. I mean, sure, some people uses religious argument to defend the idea of Israel, but if you think further :
    - It happened just after the Holocaust, that wasn't at all about religion (hence why they killed even converts to Christianity)
    - They invited at least one atheist/guy who believe the Jewish faith was non-sense to be president, i.e. Albert Einstein, to be their president
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #145 - July 29, 2013, 12:39 PM

    Yeezevee I know this I'm not a child. I will repeat since its shouldn't be hard to grasp. Jews have been evicted from lands for a long time. True. The british promises the land of palestine to them. The palestinians fearing massacres like that of in Deir Yassin, flee their towns. The israelis will not let these arabs back in. Palestinians become refugee because of this.

    Lets rewrite this with a different crime
    Kate steals from michael. She has done it for a long time. Michael is allowed to steal from Jerry because Jeff said he could. Michael steals from jerry and regains 1/10 of his wealth from Jerry.

    Now If you can't understand this, I shouldn't bother talking about this with you anymore.
    Any way I will watch your documentary in a day or two. We can discuss it if you please.

    Here is a documentary for you as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_jvXnPG9Xc

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #146 - July 31, 2013, 01:40 PM

    Think you need to look at it in a wider context of the end of WWII and the start of the Cold War.
    Israel being where it is helped counter Soviet influence in the middle east.  Yes it could have gone elsewhere, but combine the fact jews see it as their birthright and ancient land with the need to counter soviet influence and communism... makes sense for it to be where its at.
    Had israel stopped there it could have worked.  Just look at the map of the area from 1947 to present day and you can see Israeli territory expanding and palestinian territory shrinking.  Still the settlements continue.  
    Even if they had stopped at 1967 expansion, think there'd be peace today.

    <img> i am not allowed to post links yet... hmph </img>
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #147 - August 01, 2013, 01:30 AM

    Well, I'm not so sure about it. I mean, sure, some people uses religious argument to defend the idea of Israel, but if you think further :
    - It happened just after the Holocaust, that wasn't at all about religion (hence why they killed even converts to Christianity)
    - They invited at least one atheist/guy who believe the Jewish faith was non-sense to be president, i.e. Albert Einstein, to be their president


    The proposal to create the state of Israel had occurred before WWII. The U.K government of 1912 had accepted the establishment of Israel after Walter Rothschild had proposed to Arthur James Balfour through a letter that he and many jews wished to have a homeland, and that this homeland would be Palestine. Arthur James Balfour replied, and in his response he had written that the then English King had accepted the proposal, and would use any means necessary to facilitate the creation of Israel. So no, the state of Israel would have probably been founded regardless of the holocaust, although the holocaust helped establish Israel more rapidly.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.~Albert Einstein

    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. ~Plato
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #148 - August 01, 2013, 09:40 AM

    Israel/Palestine.

    Here's an old joke.

    So there was this American tourist visiting Ireland, and he managed to get himself lost on some country back roads. Having driven round in circles for some time he eventually spots a local leaning on a farm gate, chewing the end of a piece of straw and staring, somewhat vacantly, into the middle distance. The American quickly stops his car to ask for directions.

    "Hi, buddy" he says, "can you tell me how to get to Dublin."

    Certainly, Sir, certainly" replies the local, "though if I was going to Dublin myself, I wouldn't start from here..."


    The joke, of course, is that "here" is exactly where the American was and "here" was the only place he could start from.

    "Here" is also where we are vis-à-vis Palestine/Israel and no amount of historical debate, blame, revisionism is going to change that.

    A solution? I don't believe there is one. Not, at least, until one of the great power blocks of the world who support each side gains sufficient dominance that they can unilaterally impose an absolute solution (by any means, including force) without the other power block(s) being able to stop or significantly inhibit them.

    Depressing, isn't it!
  • Was the Creation of of Modern Israel a Big Mistake?
     Reply #149 - August 01, 2013, 03:11 PM

    Now you watch the the 50 Years War: Israel And The Arabs .. Pleas watch Part-1 and 2...


    Thanks for posting this Yeez.  Afro Though I think it must be a little pro-Israeli no?

    It makes it out like the Palestinians wanted to wipe out all the Jews before Israel had even been established. Which I guess would not surprise me considering how much dislike there is for Jews in Islam. I've watched the first hour and so far it seems to focus on geo-political concerns and wars from a macro scale. There is nothing so far on how Israel treated Palestinian civilians in occupied land. Does any have a good and "balanced" documentary that focuses on that instead? I am not going to pass any judgement on this topic until I've done a lot more research...
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