Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France

Previous page 1 ... 3 4 56 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- Sprout
- You are alive, live!
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #120 - March 22, 2012, 09:23 AM

Quote from: Abood on March 22, 2012, 09:13 AM
you're missing the point. the fact that it's complicated doesn't justify the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered because of systematic and institutionalized racism. and if you don't think western societies have systematic discrimination then you're fucking blind and have fallen into the trap of idealizing cultures other than your own. modern western society was founded on racism and continues to be racist.

True, institutionalized racism is a clear and present danger, but these wars are more about profit, political gain and economic interests rather than ideological racism, and any death is more a result of collateral damage and devalued life (which does tie into racism I suppose).

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #121 - March 22, 2012, 09:23 AM

so wait, the threat of physical assault you have received from your society is worse than the killing of thousands of innocent arabs and muslims by western powers?
- harakaat
- The Cunning Linguist
- Ex-Muslim
- The World Is Quiet Here
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #122 - March 22, 2012, 09:24 AM

Quote from: Abood on March 22, 2012, 09:23 AM
so wait, the threat of physical assault you have received from your society is worse than the killing of thousands of innocent arabs and muslims by western powers?

Can you prove it was deliberate and not the result of collateral damage/incompetence/isolated cases of soldiers committing atrocities?

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #123 - March 22, 2012, 09:30 AM

i'm not arguing that it's deliberate, but when people claim it's "collateral damage" and use that to ignore the issue, it really shows the value of the innocent being killed, doesn't it? it's not like they're human lives with any sort of value, just "collateral damage", as if they were buildings or cars that were hit in an explosion.

and what about the many cases of torturing and absolute gruesome crimes that were exposed in iraq and afghanistan and elsewhere? were those not intentional? was abu ghuraib an "accident"? was the recent slaughtering of afghani civilians an "accident"? these things happen because people believe arab/muslim = terrorist, so it's legitimate to do with them whatever is legitimate to do with enemy combatants at a time of war.
- Sprout
- You are alive, live!
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #124 - March 22, 2012, 09:36 AM

When I say collateral damage I'm not excusing it, I'm talking about the difference between intentional 'massacre' as you labelled it, and inadvertant killing (akin to reckless manslaughter on a large scale IMO) as a result of fighting campaigns.

The incidents you referred to were mostly singular incidents, which are a result of poor discipline as well as a lack of respect for the locals, but they aren't telling of direct policy.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned any loss of life from anywhere is an equal tragedy to me. You talk about the loss of life in the middle east and how it's ignored. Africans starve by the thousands every day with barely a news story or a shed tear going their way-and I bring this up to show you that the further away the issue, the less people care about it, it's not just about racism.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
- harakaat
- The Cunning Linguist
- Ex-Muslim
- The World Is Quiet Here
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #125 - March 22, 2012, 09:38 AM

^ That. We're not saying those are not equally tragic. Just that it's equally wrong to demonize "the West".

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #126 - March 22, 2012, 09:41 AM

even i, a privileged arab who has no exposure to the atrocities being committed by western powers outside of their borders, have experienced some discrimination. i have been given the "extra" and "random" security check at airports more than once. and my family has been told to "go back home" when were were on vacation abroad. and i have heard of stories of many students who have been detained for hours and even deported without being given a reason.

of course that's not the same as the maiming and slaughtering of innocent people, but it's part of the system, and is done for the same reasons.
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #127 - March 22, 2012, 09:42 AM

i'm not demonizing the west. you're the one who brought islam into the equation just for us to ignore the issue at hand.

Quote from: harakaat on March 21, 2012, 06:20 PM
To be honest, I'm sick of this shit. Even if the murderer turns out to be a white supremacist, Islam has a lot of blood on its hands, and terrorist Islamists have a lot of blood on their hands. Just because some idiots vilify all Muslims because of that doesn't mean that the previous sentence is not true. Let's not forget certain facts, here. Let's not forget who the real monsters are.
- Sprout
- You are alive, live!
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #128 - March 22, 2012, 09:50 AM

Quote from: Abood on March 22, 2012, 09:41 AM
even i, a privileged arab who has no exposure to the atrocities being committed by western powers outside of their borders, have experienced some discrimination. i have been given the "extra" and "random" security check at airports more than once. and my family has been told to "go back home" when were were on vacation abroad. and i have heard of stories of many students who have been detained for hours and even deported without being given a reason.

of course that's not the same as the maiming and slaughtering of innocent people, but it's part of the system, and is done for the same reasons.

Dude, discrimination against minorities exists everywhere, it's actually a natural phenomenon that exists psychologically in humans, and even other species. In many western countries it's a natural part of a system rather than a conscious rationally made decision. The Harvard Implicit Association test shows that this discrimination exists in the vast majority of people (to various degrees) from all backgrounds and ethnic groups. I'm not pointing this out because I want to say 'everyone's racist so stop complaining', but because I want to show that implicit racism exists where explicit racism has been removed to a large degree. The reason you notice it in western nations is because they are usually the policy makers and political/military leaders. On the flip side though, unlike most countries, some western countries at least aim not to be explicitly racist, and by far the biggest anti-racism measures exist in those western nations.

Anyway, I'm not defending the west, but I'm just saying that this isn't all about racism, and it isn't an exclusively western phenonmenon.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #129 - March 22, 2012, 09:51 AM

where did i say it's a conscious decision? i said it's systematic and institutionalized. nor did i say it's exclusively western. but harakaat brought up islam as if it's exclusively islam that's responsible for the shit in the world. which is something i've seen before on this forum and frankly is quite disgusting and tunnel-visioned.
- Sprout
- You are alive, live!
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #130 - March 22, 2012, 09:53 AM

Right, but I'm pointing out that it's a human condition that still hasn't been effectively treated.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
- dr_sloth
- Pub Regular
- Orthodox Atheist
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #131 - March 22, 2012, 09:54 AM

"Gabriel Sandler, 3, who was gunned down at point blank range in Toulouse on Monday, was named after Rav Gavriel Holtzberg, the Chabad emissary who was murdered in Mumbai just before he was born."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/154012#.T2r20cXUMfV
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #132 - March 22, 2012, 10:27 AM

Quote from: dr_sloth on March 22, 2012, 09:54 AM
"Gabriel Sandler, 3, who was gunned down at point blank range in Toulouse on Monday, was named after Rav Gavriel Holtzberg, the Chabad emissary who was murdered in Mumbai just before he was born."

(Clicky for piccy!)

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/154012#.T2r20cXUMfV

Damn.. that is shocking coincident..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #133 - March 22, 2012, 10:31 AM

all animal is cute fer me,
you to harakaat ....
rarwrrr
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #134 - March 22, 2012, 11:18 AM

He's sleeping with the fishes.

"le suspect est mort"

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2012/03/22/01016-20120322ARTFIG00379-toulouse-le-raid-utilise-la-strategie-de-l-epuisement.php

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Sprout
- You are alive, live!
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #135 - March 22, 2012, 11:22 AM

That's a shame, more useful alive. At least he won't be terrorizing others.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
- Yi Sun-Sin
- Member
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #136 - March 22, 2012, 01:42 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on March 22, 2012, 01:04 AM
We must realize all those three French Paratroopers killed by this brute ARE ALSO MUSLIMS

Where did you read that ? I read two of them were from North Africa, and the third one from Antilles, but I have read nothing about their religion. Which actually doesn't change anything imho : the killer did not stop by to ask them their religion before killing them, and would certainly have done so no matter the answer anyway.
And Islamist terrorists killing other Muslims (or Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, other Islamists, and even themselves for that matter) is nothing new. It's more routine.
- Yi Sun-Sin
- Member
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #137 - March 22, 2012, 01:52 PM

Quote from: billy on March 22, 2012, 11:18 AM
He's sleeping with the fishes.
"le suspect est mort"
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2012/03/22/01016-20120322ARTFIG00379-toulouse-le-raid-utilise-la-strategie-de-l-epuisement.php

So many useless presidential campaign stuff in this article
- Naerys
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #138 - March 22, 2012, 02:44 PM

Well it IS Le Figaro, after all.

I just read this, though.

Quote
13h20: Le président de la République propose de réprimer pénalement toute personne qui consultera les sites faisant l'apologie d'idéologies extrémistes, des délits qui seront désormais «punis pénalement». De la même manière, les Français qui se rendraient à l'étranger pour suivre des stages d'endoctrinement pourront également être poursuivis pénalement. Il a enfin demandé à son ministre de la Justice une étude sur la propagation des idées fondamentalistes en prison.

Rough translation: Sarkozy proposes penal punishment for people who would browse websites that praise extremist ideologies. Also, French people who would travel abroad to attend "indoctrination trainings" could also be prosecuted.

... Really? That's his solution? I don't know whether to laugh or bash my head against the wall. And to think that this dimwit is probably going to be re-elected...

He's no friend to the friendless
And he's the mother of grief
There's only sorrow for tomorrow
Surely life is too brief
- paranoid
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #139 - March 22, 2012, 02:53 PM

thank you for the translation
- harakaat
- The Cunning Linguist
- Ex-Muslim
- The World Is Quiet Here
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #140 - March 22, 2012, 03:02 PM

Quote from: Abood on March 22, 2012, 09:42 AM
i'm not demonizing the west. you're the one who brought islam into the equation just for us to ignore the issue at hand.

Islam is part of the equation. If you're saying that it is completely irrelevant then you really need to stop being so myopic. And the "issue at hand" is the tragic death of 7 people, not a few students who have to spend a few extra hours at the airport.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
- harakaat
- The Cunning Linguist
- Ex-Muslim
- The World Is Quiet Here
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #141 - March 22, 2012, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Abood on March 22, 2012, 09:51 AM
but harakaat brought up islam as if it's exclusively islam that's responsible for the shit in the world. which is something i've seen before on this forum and frankly is quite disgusting and tunnel-visioned.

Stop fighting windmills, Don Quixote, and start paying attention to what I write.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
- deusvult
- O......O
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #142 - March 22, 2012, 03:18 PM

Quote from: Naerys on March 22, 2012, 02:44 PM
Well it IS Le Figaro, after all.

I just read this, though.

Rough translation: Sarkozy proposes penal punishment for people who would browse websites that praise extremist ideologies. Also, French people who would travel abroad to attend "indoctrination trainings" could also be prosecuted.

... Really? That's his solution? I don't know whether to laugh or bash my head against the wall. And to think that this dimwit is probably going to be re-elected...

never let a crisis go to waste to become more oppressive. Instead of having a more open dialog, shining a light on the more grotesque things said in those nut job Salario forums and looking at opening up the Muslim community more with dialog they are just going to limit speech more

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
- Stardust
- Founder of Neo-Hippiism
- Ex-Muslim
- Beneath The Veil
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #143 - March 22, 2012, 07:11 PM

this is so sad

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #144 - March 22, 2012, 11:25 PM

Quote from: harakaat on March 22, 2012, 03:02 PM
Islam is part of the equation. If you're saying that it is completely irrelevant then you really need to stop being so myopic. And the "issue at hand" is the tragic death of 7 people, not a few students who have to spend a few extra hours at the airport.

are you thick or just twisting my words? western racism has caused and continues to cause the death of thousands. for you to twist my words to the claim that western racism is about "a few students who have to spend a few extra hours at the airport"... that's just fucked up. you're like a pro at spin. fox news should hire you.
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #145 - March 23, 2012, 12:48 AM

Quote from: Naerys on March 22, 2012, 02:44 PM
Well it IS Le Figaro, after all.

I just read this, though.

Rough translation: Sarkozy proposes penal punishment for people who would browse websites that praise extremist ideologies. Also, French people who would travel abroad to attend "indoctrination trainings" could also be prosecuted.

... Really? That's his solution? I don't know whether to laugh or bash my head against the wall. And to think that this dimwit is probably going to be re-elected...

There was no other President of France that was as stupid as this fool is.. He should be prosecuted for clamping such stupid rules on Freedom of expression that french used to preach...

Why clamp on such websites and people who visit them? Why don't you spend bit of money to expose such websites to the people ., this guy is the most cunning character that French ever elected..

Quote
One document, a government briefing note, allegedly points to visits to Libya by Sarkozy and his close colleagues and advisers, which it says were aimed at securing campaign funding. Shortly after Sarkozy's election, Colonel Gaddafi was invited to Paris and allowed to pitch his bedouin tent in the grounds of an official French residence close to the Elysée Palace. He was described as the "Brother Leader" by the French.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4UJeZU4HXw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u82-iv095v0

Well That shooting above was apparently the end of that 23 year old fool.. Mohammed Merah..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- harakaat
- The Cunning Linguist
- Ex-Muslim
- The World Is Quiet Here
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #146 - March 23, 2012, 01:31 AM

Quote from: Abood on March 22, 2012, 11:25 PM
are you thick or just twisting my words? western racism has caused and continues to cause the death of thousands. for you to twist my words to the claim that western racism is about "a few students who have to spend a few extra hours at the airport"... that's just fucked up. you're like a pro at spin. fox news should hire you.

Umm, how about you try to first understand what I said before coming to retarded conclusions about it and then attacking those conclusions?

Arguing with you is like arguing with an angry deaf man. You just never fucking listen, and end up embarrassing yourself by assuming I hold positions I don't.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
- Crunchy Cds
- Pub Regular
- The artist
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #147 - March 23, 2012, 02:24 AM

I read that the killing was revenge for 3 Palestinian children that were killed! Is that true?

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #148 - March 23, 2012, 02:37 AM

Quote from: harakaat on March 23, 2012, 01:31 AM
Umm, how about you try to first understand what I said before coming to retarded conclusions about it and then attacking those conclusions?

Arguing with you is like arguing with an angry deaf man. You just never fucking listen, and end up embarrassing yourself by assuming I hold positions I don't.

either that or you're not expressing yourself properly.
- harakaat
- The Cunning Linguist
- Ex-Muslim
- The World Is Quiet Here
- offline
Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
Reply #149 - March 23, 2012, 02:41 AM

^ One reason we should all speak Esperanto. Built-in clarity FTW!

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
Previous page 1 ... 3 4 56 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »