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Theme Changer

 Topic: polytheism / monotheism

 (Read 16629 times)
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  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #150 - October 20, 2012, 05:13 PM

    Why would this person preach at me. . . . when he did not even have the decency to be at least civil? Who is this garbage for? If it isn't meant for me - why use my name? Why preach at me in the 1st place? And refer to me in third person - and switch to first?

    Ego?  


    Hi  Amin.. I didn't mean to get you upset Amin., It is true and I am bit egotistic about your  smart posts .. Those responses from you are  so smart diverting the subject of discussion in the forum .. they  literally put people to sleep. Oh common Riaz ,  I didn't use foul words,  did I?? It was just a bit of fun.. is it not??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #151 - October 20, 2012, 05:24 PM

    I agree! I think the post calls for this quote-

    "You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him." - The Atheist's Wager


    AminRiaz. Just live a good life- I find it much more fulfilling to do right things for its own sake instead of waiting for some prize at the end like some carrot on a stick.  far away hug



    Or listen to anonymous wits from net forum. . . . esp. the ones who preach without preaching! Because in that case better stick to the tried and tested.   
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #152 - October 20, 2012, 05:27 PM

    Hi  Amin.. I didn't mean to get you upset Amin., It is true and I am bit egotistic about your  smart posts .. Those responses from you are  so smart diverting the subject of discussion in the forum .. they  literally put people to sleep. Oh common Riaz ,  I didn't use foul words,  did I?? It was just a bit of fun.. is it not??


    Yet this person up past 2:00 am GMT . . . . for SEVERAL hours - having one way conversations with me. Ouch!  parrot I really am THAT good!
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #153 - October 20, 2012, 06:02 PM


    Or listen to anonymous wits from net forum. . . . esp. the ones who preach without preaching! Because in that case better stick to the tried and tested.   


    have I said something to offend you? the teachings that you believe in say that I am to be tortured and my skin is to be burned over and over again and I said living a good life and doing the right things for its sake alone is more fulfilling in my opinion.  Which do you find more offensive?



    "In every religion there is love, yet love has no religion"

    "The intellectual runs away, afraid of drowning; the whole business of love is to drown in the sea." - Rumi
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #154 - October 20, 2012, 06:08 PM

    ... . . . . for SEVERAL hours - having one way conversations with me. Ouch!  parrot I really am THAT good!

    off course you are good .. you are smart Amin..

    What are you taking?? what several hrs??  for such Smart prophetic words from you ..I can have intellectual discourse for several days Amin..  see this post from you to Tonyt


    - - -

    Early Hellenistic - before Judaism were monotheistic. Dionysus as practiced in Cyprus around 4bc.  Mitharism, Hypsistarians, Zoroastrians, Many form of Hinduism - were monotheists. American Indians - belief in the great creator. Henotheism - some form were Mono. Henotheism - but they accepted other Gods - but devoted just to one. Then there are many form of mono - in China before Confucianism and Taoism.


    I mean you just put the zest of of every religion on earth in few words.. So yes.. i would rate you a very high Amin.. Please continue..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #155 - October 20, 2012, 06:14 PM

    Quote
    have I said something to offend you? the teachings that you believe in say that I am to be tortured and my skin is to be burned over and over again and I said living a good life and doing the right things for its sake alone is more fulfilling in my opinion.  Which do you find more offensive?


    The comment was aimed at Yeeze - I don't have you down as a wit.

    - - -

    Nonetheless  - how does this imply - that I have taken some great offense:

    "Or listen to anonymous wits from net forum. . . . esp. the ones who preach without preaching! Because in that case better stick to the tried and tested.   "

    Or was it the chance to moralize that you couldn't let slip?

     - - -

    "the teachings that you believe in say that I am to be tortured and my skin is to be burned over and over again and I said living a good life and doing the right things for its sake alone is more fulfilling in my opinion."

    I wouldn't correlate the two. The teachings that I believe in aren't aimed personally at you - they hold disbelief in one God to be a punishable offence.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #156 - October 20, 2012, 06:26 PM

    The comment was aimed at Yeeze - I don't have you down as a wit. ..

    What? this is for me? not for Sara198 ?

     

    Or listen to anonymous wits from net forum. . . . esp. the ones who preach without preaching! Because in that case better stick to the tried and tested.  

    That is  for me??


    "The one's who preach without preaching"  .. That is me?  Me?  

      Amin I take that as great compliment..  I posted literally 50000 posts on the web.. no one ever gave such complement to me..

    Thanks....




     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #157 - October 20, 2012, 07:06 PM

    Early history of Indo-European tribes emerge with one powerful God. History of this Dyeus bears signs of being monotheistic. later descended into many Gods. Zeus and whatnot. 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyeus


    There is no early history of Indo-European tribes. It is all pre-history. History refers to a period where there are surviving written records, the era before that is known as pre-history.

    All of this stuff about "Dyeus" is speculative and based on lingusitics, the fact that the word "Deus" or something similar exists in a number of different Indo-European languages.

    Here read this wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

    Quote
    Proto-Indo-European religion is the hypothesized religion of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) peoples based on the existence of similarities among the deities, religious practices and mythologies of the Indo-European peoples. Reconstruction of the hypotheses below is based on linguistic evidence using the comparative method. Archaeological evidence is difficult to match to any specific culture in the period of early Indo-European culture in the Chalcolithic.[


    If you continue down and read the rest of the article you will see that there are a number of different names of deities that also have similar names, not just Deus by himself. It lists at least 7 different names of Gods and Goddesses with names common across different Indo-European langauges, and these Gods and Goddesses represent a specific element of the natural world. It sounds very similar to Classical Greek or Ancient Persian religion.

    You need to really start to challenge yourself when you do your research AminRiaz. You should be looking for stuff that disproves your hypothesis, not just selectively reading about the stuff that supports it.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #158 - October 20, 2012, 07:16 PM


    The comment was aimed at Yeeze - I don't have you down as a wit.



    I wouldn't correlate the two. The teachings that I believe in aren't aimed personally at you - they hold disbelief in one God to be a punishable offence.




    A little tip for later...its best to actually quote the person you are addressing instead of someone else.

    Of course the teachings you support are aimed at me. You believe in a God who states unbelievers deserve to be tortured and burned. That would be me, an unbeliever.

    "In every religion there is love, yet love has no religion"

    "The intellectual runs away, afraid of drowning; the whole business of love is to drown in the sea." - Rumi
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #159 - October 20, 2012, 07:28 PM

    Dyeus - started off as more or less strict Monotheism. But became polytheistic - in its many forms.


    There is 0 evidence to support this claim.

    Quote
    I don't need to find any other culture that has er . . . similar attitude towards dogs. Why would I do that?


    As evidence that the Hadiths against dogs are actually from a Divine source and not just cultural. If God does not want people to keep dogs as pets then why do so many societies across the world keep them as pets? But forget about dogs in particular, that is just one example, just find any single thing in Islam that is also observed in other cultures on other continents that would convince somebody that it must have been based on a message from God. I.e. something that is so coincidental that it is highly unlikely that it could have come about by chance.

    Quote
    Why would providing evidence that other societies practiced circumcision or did not practice have any bearing about Islam and circumcision?


    Because that would lend some weight to the idea that circumcision is ordained by God and not a cultural practice of the Middle East.

    Quote
    In that wiki article it lists societies that practiced circumcision that were NOT in touch with Hebrew faiths. Africa - Greco-Roman world. Did you bother to read it?


    Yes I read the article, I am well aware of where circumcision was traditionally practiced, and that it predates the Hebrew faith as you agree. That is the whole point. Africa and the Greco-Roman world were of course in constant contact with the Middle East, part of the Middle East is in Africa and the Greco-Romans ruled the Middle East for a 1,000 years. I am talking about an example of circumcision on another continent that had no contact with Middle Eastern people. There were thousands and thousands of native cultures in the Americas, Australia, East Asia and the Pacific that had absolutely no contact with the Middle East, just find me 1 single society from those regions whose religion has something in common with Abrahamic religions.

    Quote
    Circumcision IS a cultural practice from Middle East. That IS how Muslims view it. It is not an ordained command from God as such within Islam - as praying or fasting are.


    Circumcision comes from the Hadiths, as does praying 5 times a day.

    Quote
    Again - you can find many many similarities - but what would such similarities prove?


    You can never prove anything 100%, with total certainty. But what you are looking for is a body of evidence to support an argument so that it can be believed beyond reasonable doubt.

    So what are these many many similarities? Provide some examples.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #160 - October 20, 2012, 08:44 PM

    There is no early history of Indo-European tribes. It is all pre-history. History refers to a period where there are surviving written records, the era before that is known as pre-history.

    All of this stuff about "Dyeus" is speculative and based on lingusitics, the fact that the word "Deus" or something similar exists in a number of different Indo-European languages.

    Here read this wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

    If you continue down and read the rest of the article you will see that there are a number of different names of deities that also have similar names, not just Deus by himself. It lists at least 7 different names of Gods and Goddesses with names common across different Indo-European langauges, and these Gods and Goddesses represent a specific element of the natural world. It sounds very similar to Classical Greek or Ancient Persian religion.

    You need to really start to challenge yourself when you do your research AminRiaz. You should be looking for stuff that disproves your hypothesis, not just selectively reading about the stuff that supports it.



    huh? I am sorry - but if all you have got is things scoffed from Wiki - then you have a long way to go. The thing is - It is clear - you odn't know what you are talking about.

    "You should be looking for stuff that disproves your hypothesis"

    What hypothesis? And what research? What are you talking about?
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #161 - October 20, 2012, 08:51 PM

    Amin, your response to Tony is comical. Its clear you're not debating in good faith.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #162 - October 20, 2012, 08:57 PM


    huh? I am sorry - but if all you have got is things scoffed from Wiki - then you have a long way to go. The thing is - It is clear - you odn't know what you are talking about.


    Pot calling the kettle black.  Cheesy

    "You should be looking for stuff that disproves your hypothesis"

    What hypothesis? And what research? What are you talking about?


    Your hypothesis is that the Indo-European people began as a monotheistic people and then later became polytheists, as you yourself stated earlier in the thread. Now in your research you should be looking for facts that would both prove or disprove this hypothesis. Not simply looking for stuff that supports your hypothesis and throwing everything else out of the window.

    You have made the statement that "Deus" was the only God of the first indo-europeans as as a source you provided wiki articles that say the opposite, that "Deus" was the principle God among many Gods. Even your own sources that you have provided contradict your position. But you clearly are unable to read the parts that contradict your position, you just ignore them, it is as if they do not register in your brain. Either that or you are not even reading the sources that you post.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #163 - October 20, 2012, 09:15 PM

    Quote
    There is 0 evidence to support this claim.


    How do you know? Have you looked at all the evidence available?

    - - -

    Quote
    As evidence that the Hadiths against dogs are actually from a Divine source and not just cultural. If God does not want people to keep dogs as pets then why do so many societies across the world keep them as pets? But forget about dogs in particular, that is just one example, just find any single thing in Islam that is also observed in other cultures on other continents that would convince somebody that it must have been based on a message from God. I.e. something that is so coincidental that it is highly unlikely that it could have come about by chance.


    Most Hadith are not considered as divine*. Where did you get that?

    [Except Hadith Qudsi - which are small in number]

    - - -

    "If God does not want people to keep dogs as pets then why do so many societies across the world keep them as pets?"

    I don't think God is particularly worried about dogs - one way or the other. As for other societies - they don't follow Islam.

    - - -

    Quote
    But forget about dogs in particular, that is just one example, just find any single thing in Islam that is also observed in other cultures on other continents that would convince somebody that it must have been based on a message from God. I.e. something that is so coincidental that it is highly unlikely that it could have come about by chance.


    Why?

    - - -

    = = =

    Quote
    Because that would lend some weight to the idea that circumcision is ordained by God and not a cultural practice of the Middle East.


    No it wouldn't - Why would some other societies practicing Circumcision have any effect on Islam?

    - - -

    Quote
    Yes I read the article, I am well aware of where circumcision was traditionally practiced, and that it predates the Hebrew faith as you agree. That is the whole point. Africa and the Greco-Roman world were of course in constant contact with the Middle East, part of the Middle East is in Africa and the Greco-Romans ruled the Middle East for a 1,000 years. I am talking about an example of circumcision on another continent that had no contact with Middle Eastern people. There were thousands and thousands of native cultures in the Americas, Australia, East Asia and the Pacific that had absolutely no contact with the Middle East, just find me 1 single society from those regions whose religion has something in common with Abrahamic religions.


    If you HAD actually read the article - then you would have noticed - the article speaks about the time - before Abrahamic religions ever got to those societies - circumcision was practiced in Africa. Ancient Egyptians practiced it - It used to be practiced by Aboriginal societies as rite of passage.

    - - -

    "Circumcision comes from the Hadiths, as does praying 5 times a day."

    Praying comes from the Quran - Circumcision doesn't.

    - - -

    Quote
    You can never prove anything 100%, with total certainty. But what you are looking for is a body of evidence to support an argument so that it can be believed beyond reasonable doubt.


    Why? What has THAT got to do with anything? It is you who is after it - you find it. It doesn't make sense - or much difference to me at all.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #164 - October 20, 2012, 09:17 PM

    Amin, your response to Tony is comical. Its clear you're not debating in good faith.




    Another such statement - but you would say that . . . . it er . . . . rather obvious. But you fail to say why.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #165 - October 20, 2012, 09:22 PM


    Amin, you've been making ridiculous claims about polytheistic religions in history being monotheistic. You have not responded to any of the posts taking you to task for that. Your response to Tony is sophistry and evasion. That is the way these discussions tend to go. When you simply invent things about how the Hellenic religion was monotheistic, you're not being serious.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #166 - October 20, 2012, 09:23 PM


    Quote
    Your hypothesis is that the Indo-European people began as a monotheistic people and then later became polytheists, as you yourself stated earlier in the thread. Now in your research you should be looking for facts that would both prove or disprove this hypothesis. Not simply looking for stuff that supports your hypothesis and throwing everything else out of the window.


    Not all - but Deyus was somewhat monotheistic in origin. And later became wide spread Polytheistic.

    Quote
    You have made the statement that "Deus" was the only God of the first indo-europeans as as a source you provided wiki articles that say the opposite, that "Deus" was the principle God among many Gods. Even your own sources that you have provided contradict your position. But you clearly are unable to read the parts that contradict your position, you just ignore them, it is as if they do not register in your brain. Either that or you are not even reading the sources that you post.


    I read those 'parts' . . . and I don't ignore them - as they are NOT talking about origin of Deyus. And I have acknowledged that it became a polytheistic belief.

    "You have made the statement that "Deus" was the only God of the first indo-europeans" - I have never claimed he was the "only" god of Indo Europe.

    - - -

      

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #167 - October 20, 2012, 09:31 PM

    Amin, you've been making ridiculous claims about polytheistic religions in history being monotheistic. You have not responded to any of the posts taking you to task for that. Your response to Tony is sophistry and evasion. That is the way these discussions tend to go. When you simply invent things about how the Hellenic religion was monotheistic, you're not being serious.



    You can accuse me of all sorts - but it doesn't make it true.

    "Amin, you've been making ridiculous claims about polytheistic religions in history being monotheistic." - some were but not all. I have never claimed that.

    - - -

    "You have not responded to any of the posts taking you to task for that."

    Which one's - point them out - I have.

    - - - -

    "Your response to Tony is sophistry and evasion."

    You seem good at making such accusations - examples?

    - - - -

    Quote
    When you simply invent things about how the Hellenic religion was monotheistic

     - I don't claim that all of Hellenic faith was Monotheistic. . . . for example see wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

    "The development of pure (philosophical) monotheism is a product of the Late Antiquity. During the 2nd to 3rd centuries, early Christianity was just one of several competing religious movements advocating monotheism."

    In brief - even within such society some concept of Monotheism was there. In the form of a chief god - this is how dyeus came about - first as single powerful deity and then with whole plethora of lesser gods.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #168 - October 20, 2012, 09:39 PM

    This post of yours is an example of your sophistry and evasion  Smiley

    You are really out of your depth on the matter of monotheism and polytheism. Repeatedly claiming that a 'father god' in a pantheon of polytheism is a precursor to monotheism and therefore as of one with the narrative that culminates in Islam is laughable.

    Late Antiquity is the period when monotheism arose - it is not the Hellenic era.





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #169 - October 20, 2012, 09:59 PM


    Most Hadith are not considered as divine*. Where did you get that?

    [Except Hadith Qudsi - which are small in number]

    .....................................

    "Circumcision comes from the Hadiths, as does praying 5 times a day."

    Praying comes from the Quran - Circumcision doesn't.
    ............

    well as sara pointed out it is becoming  difficult  to figure out who said what from AminRiaz 's post.  I will not gang up on a fellow like Amin but  are those bold words from you Amin??


     Hadith Qudsi  are divine??  forget  Hadith Qudsi, Is Quran divine Amin???  



    well I don't know why anything is divine and I don't know what is divine but   let me add this here for the sake of readers. Going to horse mouth  the link




     gives all those hadiths.    This Hadith Qudsi  was allegedly came from  Abu Hurairah (Arabic: أبو هريرة‎), (also known as `Abd al-Rahman ibn Sakhr Al-Azdi (Arabic: عبدالرحمن بن صخر الأزدي‎), Abu Hurayrah, or Abu Horaira) (603 – 681) was a companion of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and the narrator of Hadith most quoted in the isnad by Sunnis.

    The problem is there aer more than 3000 hadiths from this guy , Now question why only 40 or so hadith selected as Hadith Qudsi from those 3000 is difficult o answer., on top of that Shia Muslims scholars don't like this guy.,  This  Abu Hurairah was allegedly born in 603 died in 681 or 59 AH at the age of 78 .   This time is clearly in the middle of life of alleged prohet of Islam.. that is who allegedly born in the year 571 and died in 632...

    Any we need sieve through this hadith qudsi  to get some nuggets from it.. and we will do that.. well click that sunnipath.com to scan through that silly divine hadith...
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #170 - October 20, 2012, 11:22 PM

    You can accuse me of all sorts - but it doesn't make it true.

    "Amin, you've been making ridiculous claims about polytheistic religions in history being monotheistic." - some were but not all. I have never claimed that.

    - - -

    "You have not responded to any of the posts taking you to task for that."

    Which one's - point them out - I have.

    - - - -

    "Your response to Tony is sophistry and evasion."

    You seem good at making such accusations - examples?

    - - - -
     - I don't claim that all of Hellenic faith was Monotheistic. . . . for example see wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

    "The development of pure (philosophical) monotheism is a product of the Late Antiquity. During the 2nd to 3rd centuries, early Christianity was just one of several competing religious movements advocating monotheism."

    In brief - even within such society some concept of Monotheism was there. In the form of a chief god - this is how dyeus came about - first as single powerful deity and then with whole plethora of lesser gods.

     Right but what does monotheism itself have to do with Islam other than Islam claims to be monotheistic? You mentioned the Great Spirit in some Native American tribes, but is that Great Spirit really Allah and where messengers sent down to them, or is Allah really the Native American Great Spirit and we should follow what the Native American Great Spirit said? That can't be answered, so the idea that Islam is anything more than a cultural phenomon bound by humanity and history has yet to be shown. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #171 - October 21, 2012, 01:51 AM

    Quote
    Right but what does monotheism itself have to do with Islam other than Islam claims to be monotheistic? You mentioned the Great Spirit in some Native American tribes, but is that Great Spirit really Allah and where messengers sent down to them, or is Allah really the Native American Great Spirit and we should follow what the Native American Great Spirit said? That can't be answered, so the idea that Islam is anything more than a cultural phenomon bound by humanity and history has yet to be shown. 


    . Islam doesn't CLAIM to be monotheistic - it simply is - that is the category it is classified under. You seem to be agreeing with me - I did not start on this strand. Islam is a strict Monotheistic religion and that is it. Similarities don't prove/disapprove anything much.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #172 - October 21, 2012, 01:59 AM

    This post of yours is an example of your sophistry and evasion  Smiley

    You are really out of your depth on the matter of monotheism and polytheism. Repeatedly claiming that a 'father god' in a pantheon of polytheism is a precursor to monotheism and therefore as of one with the narrative that culminates in Islam is laughable.

    Late Antiquity is the period when monotheism arose - it is not the Hellenic era.



    You do it again . . . simply claims of sophistry, evasion and whatnot. Without any reason as to why. Hence more false claims.

    - - -

    "Repeatedly claiming that a 'father god' in a pantheon of polytheism is a precursor to monotheism and therefore as of one with the narrative that culminates in Islam is laughable."

    Repeatedly - you twist what I say into whatever you feel like - "therefore as of one with the narrative that culminates in Islam is laughable."

    Something I have never claimed - and something which my earlier replies clearly show I am against. As I have said - just because some other religions were somewhat monotheistic has no bearings on Islam.

    But you withdraw your own conclusion - which are NOT based on what I say. You have shown that before.

    As to deyus - I did look into it - and it was a single god - polytheistic lower gods came afterwards. I have never claimed that it has any bearings whatsoever on Islam. Simply deyus too might have been a monotheistic deity - however - it is very difficult to elicit any certain knowledge from such past history.

    - - -

    "You are really out of your depth on the matter of monotheism and polytheism. "

    And on which merit are you able to assess this?

    - - -

    "Late Antiquity is the period when monotheism arose - it is not the Hellenic era."

    Proof? Evidence?
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #173 - October 21, 2012, 02:00 AM

    . Islam doesn't CLAIM to be monotheistic - it simply is - that is the category it is classified under. You seem to be agreeing with me - I did not start on this strand. Islam is a strict Monotheistic religion and that is it. Similarities don't prove/disapprove anything much.

    hmm..    "Islam doesn't CLAIM to be monotheistic - it simply is  ..Islam is a strict Monotheistic religion and that is it."

    so what?? Dime a dozen Monotheistic faiths were there before Islam before the birth alleged prophet of Islam??   so what my friend??  As far as your words "Similarities don't prove/disapprove anything much" is concerned .,  No...no...., Amin., you can not make a cake  and sell it as it is the best cake.,   it is only the cake every one should buy and eat it.. people are much smarter in 21st century.. 15 year old and 20 year olds ripping the religious books throwing in to trash., so your words of Similarities don't prove/disapprove anything much. either silly or CUNNING..

    your similarities that you see in your faith  prove that the faith is imported.. usurped..plagiarized from other similar faiths that were there before it..  
    "

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #174 - October 21, 2012, 12:51 PM

    "Late Antiquity is the period when monotheism arose - it is not the Hellenic era."

    Proof? Evidence?


    ^^^ Grin

    This is proof and evidence of your sophistry, evasion and obtuse 'debating' style - a not unfamiliar style. It is encountered when discussing things with believers often. In the absence of substance, there is emptiness and shuffling like this.

    If you need 'proof' that Late Antiquity is the age when monotheistic religions took shape, you have no credibility.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #175 - October 21, 2012, 01:06 PM

    This discussion would be cool in its own thread in the religion section.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #176 - October 21, 2012, 04:07 PM

    Not all - but Deyus was somewhat monotheistic in origin. And later became wide spread Polytheistic.


    Provide the evidence that supports this claim.

    I don't claim that all of Hellenic faith was Monotheistic. . . . for example see wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

    "The development of pure (philosophical) monotheism is a product of the Late Antiquity. During the 2nd to 3rd centuries, early Christianity was just one of several competing religious movements advocating monotheism."

    In brief - even within such society some concept of Monotheism was there. In the form of a chief god - this is how dyeus came about - first as single powerful deity and then with whole plethora of lesser gods.


    No you have your dates totally mixed up. The philosophical development of monotheistic belief was a gradual adoption of a belief in a single creator of the universe advocated by some philosophers that had an impact on the growth of Christianity in late antiquity. The first signs of it are from Aristotle in the 3rd Century BC with his idea of the "Prime Mover". That has no connection with some primeval Indo-European "Deus" because that was from 1,000 years prior and Aristotle himself had no knowledge of the Indo-European origins of his civilization. All he knew about his own societies beliefs were that they were traditionally Polytheistic. Aristotle never claimed that he was told about the "Prime Mover" by the angel Gabriel, he never claimed any divine inspiration at all. He simply speculated about the Universe from a human perspective.

    If you HAD actually read the article - then you would have noticed - the article speaks about the time - before Abrahamic religions ever got to those societies - circumcision was practiced in Africa. Ancient Egyptians practiced it - It used to be practiced by Aboriginal societies as rite of passage.


    Yes! You are finally starting to understand this. If circumcision predates the Abrahamic faiths then that is more evidence that it is a cultural practice of the Middle East, not part of a divine revelation. Do you agree?

    "Circumcision comes from the Hadiths, as does praying 5 times a day."

    Praying comes from the Quran - Circumcision doesn't.


    Praying 5 times a day does not come from the Koran, it comes from Hadith.

    Are you a Quran only Muslim? Or do you follow the Hadith aswell? Or do you just cherry pick the stuff you like from the Hadith and discard the rest? As you do with your Wiki sources.  Cheesy

    This discussion would be cool in its own thread in the religion section.


    Seconded, this really is no longer about questions to ask a Muslim. It is too repetitive, it is the same questions and the same evasive answers over and over again.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #177 - October 21, 2012, 04:19 PM

    How the supposed 'One True God' of monotheistic Judaism has its roots in monolatry - the worship of one god in a pantheon of gods:

    A History of God - Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #178 - October 21, 2012, 05:23 PM

    How the supposed 'One True God' of monotheistic Judaism has its roots in monolatry - the worship of one god in a pantheon of gods:

    A History of God - Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

    that is a very educational tube Ishina .. ., let us add other tubes around it..

    3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 2)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8

    A History of God 1-7

    Quote


    well faith heads will learn a lot watching those tubes..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #179 - October 24, 2012, 06:39 AM

    Late for this party...and not going to read all the thread....

    But put my vote in for Polytheism.
    It makes more sense philosophically, and is just plain better. That's not me saying I believe in or encourage the believe in polytheism, but that given a choice I'd rather live in a polytheistic universe than a monotheistic one.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
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