Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Gaza assault
Yesterday at 10:05 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Yesterday at 08:55 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
January 25, 2025, 03:08 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
January 23, 2025, 06:32 AM

New Britain
January 21, 2025, 11:54 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
January 20, 2025, 05:08 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 12:03 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 11:55 AM

News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM

Mo Salah
December 26, 2024, 05:30 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
December 25, 2024, 10:58 AM

What's happened to the fo...
December 25, 2024, 02:29 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots

 (Read 18202 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     OP - December 21, 2012, 05:51 PM

    This is an excellent post on demands for female modesty:

    Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
    December 17, 2012 By suzannecalulu 13 Comments
    by Sierra

    Definition: The “modesty doctrine” is the belief that women need to cover their bodies to prevent men from being attracted to them, because sexual attraction is lust that leads to sin and death for both.  The modesty doctrine is not the same as wearing conservative clothing. You can do the latter without believing the former. The modesty doctrine is found in fundamentalist Christianity, Judaism and Islam, with milder echoes in mainstream Western culture.

    In my previous posts on the modesty doctrine, I’ve written about how, as a teenager, I believed that the only solution to the problem of male lust was to have a sexless body. This desire for androgyny contributed directly to my eating disorder, as I deliberately tried to purge myself of curves. Is self-starvation extreme? Yes. Is it illogical as a response to the modesty doctrine? Not at all.

    I posted this excerpt from Feministe’s article on the Stuyvesant school dress code on Monday, but it bears repeating:
    Beyond the treatment of young men as uncontrollable animals and the treatment of young women as rape-bait, the Stuy dress code enforcers also appear to fall into a common problem with dress codes generally — defining an “appropriate” body. As the students quoted in the Times article implied, some of them technically met the dress code but were still told they were “inappropriate,” not because of what they were wearing, but because of how it looked on them. I don’t know what those students look like, but I’m going to guess it comes down to boobs and butts. Flesh is what’s often considered “inappropriate” — B-cup boobs in a turtleneck are fine, but double-Ds are not; straight hips in a pencil skirt are fine, but curvy ones are not. It’s the body that’s being policed, not the clothes.

    The modesty doctrine isn’t about clothes, it’s about bodies. It’s a method for punishing women who do not conform to an idealized, asexual, inoffensive body type. The “offenders” are women with large breasts, wide hips, or discernible “booty.” The modesty doctrine claims that the right clothes conceal a woman’s figure, and that the wrong ones expose her curves. The problem is, some women have figures that cannot be concealed. Even denim sack jumpers will reveal a curvy woman’s hips or breasts when she moves. When I was rebuked for my clothing as a teenager, it was often identical to the clothing all the other girls were wearing. The only difference was that I had “developed” first. The modesty doctrine defines some bodies as inherently problematic.

    The hyper-vigilance of fundamentalist men and women to root out “immodesty” conceals a hatred of female sexuality: secondary sex characteristics should not be visible except in approved circumstances. The system is designed to ensure that the only time a man is “turned on” by a woman is when he is allowed to act on his urges: in the marital bed. In other words, if a woman’s body is visible, it ought to be available for sex. Although I don’t think many men think this consciously, the idea crops up in misogynist rhetoric all the time. “Immodest” women are “asking for it,” or it’s “false advertising” if a woman in a short skirt won’t go home with you, or (in the terms of the Christian patriarchy movement) a woman “defrauds” a man (literally, deprives him of a right or property) by allowing herself to be attractive in a situation wherein sex with her is illicit or unwanted.

    The modesty doctrine frames this idea in terms of clothing to preserve the veneer that women are somehow to blame for this, and that there’s something they can do about it. There isn’t. The modesty doctrine revolves around the assumption that a man has a right to sex with every woman he finds attractive. In Christian fundamentalism, he only has a right to sex with his wife. Therefore, other women who are attractive to him seem to taunt him with something he can’t have (extramarital sex). That’s why certain women get singled out as threats, despite trying their hardest to be “modest.” It doesn’t matter what they wear; if men find them attractive and can’t marry them, they must be punished. This disproportionately happens to curvy women because their sex is impossible to erase.

    Something’s missing here. I hope you’ve picked up on it. The woman does not have any agency in this model of male sexuality. What she wants or doesn’t want is either erased or subordinated to what he wants or can’t have. The relationship is between the man, her body, and the law (monogamy). Similarly, entire facets of male sexuality are written out. Men are not allowed to see themselves as objects of desire, to consider themselves attractive or to enjoy the idea of sex with an initiating woman. The corollary to accepting that sex isn’t about having a right of use for another person’s body means enjoying the experience of having a woman express genuine interest in you. In the fundamentalist model of sex, men are aggressors and women are reluctant recipients. Relinquishing the right to sex with a woman and replacing it with mutual consent means finally experiencing sexual interest that isn’t forced. It threatens patriarchal masculinity, however, because having that experience (being wanted) means letting go of superiority and admitting to having the same experience women do. It means acknowledging a woman’s capacity to be the one with desires and one’s own capacity to be an object of desire. Fundamentalist men also aren’t allowed to acknowledge that, despite their monogamy, their bodies will occasionally feel attraction to others, and that attraction does not in itself have a moral value.  Every misplaced flutter of the heart explodes into anger at being “defrauded.”

    A similar dynamic takes place when men justify the modesty doctrine by arguing, “I wouldn’t want other men looking at my wife like that.” That expression reflects the pride of possession and defensiveness fundamentalist men are taught to feel regarding their wives’ bodies. If a man believes women who dress “immodestly” are depriving him of his right to sex, he also believes that men who look at his wife with sexual interest are trying to assert a right to sex with her. In other words, they’re threatening what belongs to him.
    This is all quite dehumanizing. It sounds scary and extreme. I can see the heads shaking already. That’s fine. What I’m analyzing is a system. I certainly don’t think that most fundamentalists – or even most people – have thought the problem through to this degree. Most of my thinking as a fundamentalist girl was reactionary (“That guy is staring at me. I need to go change.”). Most men that I grew up with never interrogated themselves over why they were so disgusted with an unattractive (to them) woman wearing shorts. They never outright said “she’s offering me something I don’t want,” but they did say things like “nobody wants to see that,” which isn’t too far off. It doesn’t take into account that she might have reasons for wearing shorts other than for them to look at her. They assumed (probably without recognizing it) that women’s bodies were for looking at whenever they weren’t completely hidden.

    Feminists will probably find all of this annoyingly familiar. What am I saying, after all? The modesty doctrine is rape culture. It is inseparable from patriarchy. It is the very means by which patriarchy reduces women to mere flesh. “If I can see it, it’s mine” is the motto of a thief. If a woman’s body is the “it,” it’s the motto of a rapist. “If I can see it, she’s defrauding me” is the motto of Christian patriarchy. The Christian patriarchy movement attempts to obliterate a woman’s sexual agency in several ways:
    First, it demands she cover up to keep men from wanting what they see.

    Second, it sanctions sex with a woman based not on her consent but upon marriage vows (“it’s impossible to rape your wife because her body is yours”).
    Third, it places control over marriage vows in male hands through courtship (father and husband). Consent is therefore farcical.
    Fourth, it demands that women, not men, face the consequences of sex: either the guilt of adultery for the imagined sex a leering man has with a woman he finds attractive, or the perpetual pregnancy resulting from marital relations, as birth control is forbidden.

    The modesty doctrine goes way deeper than the denim jumper. It’s a central pillar of patriarchal religion. Doing away with it means finding another support for ethical sexuality. I think it means replacing the idea of possession with the idea of sharing. It means seeing consent as a permanent requirement, one that doesn’t expire upon marriage. It means moving beyond a toddler-like vision of the world (“everything is here for me to look at”) to an adult one (“I can see the world around me, but it isn’t about me”). It means ceasing to fear that you can be defiled by something you see (it’s what comes out that defiles you). It means taking responsibility for your own actions rather than accusing others of “forcing” you to sin. It means ceasing to assign respect or perceived moral character to women based on how much or how little of their bodies are visible, or how curvy they are. Finally, it means replacing a functional definition of women as bodies with a recognition of women as full human beings who can wear whatever they damn well please.

    Source: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2012/12/modesty-body-policing-and-rape-culture-connecting-the-dots/
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #1 - December 21, 2012, 07:25 PM

    Yup, that sums it up fairly well. Nothing earth-shattering there, but she's obviously just figured it out for herself and has done a pretty good job of it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #2 - December 21, 2012, 09:09 PM

    My mother says that 'wearing too little' is cruel to men, for tempting them but then denying them. I don't get it.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #3 - December 25, 2012, 11:32 PM

    As a person who grew up in a culture without the modesty doctrine, it came as a pretty big shock to me when I started making friends with brown girls. I always wondered where the responsibility for men is.

    As a man myself I'l admit that if I see a good looking girl I'm inclined to take a look (especially ones who are more revealing), as I'm sure any woman would do if she saw a good looking man. That being said, I don't treat girls any differently based on how they dress, and I certainly don't feel as if an attractive girl is my property. I also don't feel inclined to rape anyone regardless of what they're wearing, as I certainly wouldn't enjoy being raped myself...

    I don't understand how making harassment prevention the sole responsibility of women helps anything. Removing all responsibility from men just lets them get worse and worse and create a society where causing physical or emotional pain to people can actually be allowed, or even expected.

    Of course an attractive person is temping, we can thank genetics for that. However, that's not to say that we're filthy animals who can't realise that hurting other people is bad. If you found someone's phone on the ground in a hotel, would you steal it? I would return it to the front desk because I know that everyone going around stealing each other's stuff does not create a trusting and happy society.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #4 - February 09, 2013, 06:37 PM

    My mother says that girls are tender meat its something likes to remins me of when i come home late
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #5 - February 09, 2013, 10:14 PM

    My mother says that 'wearing too little' is cruel to men, for tempting them but then denying them. I don't get it.


    Quote
    My mother says that girls are tender meat its something likes to remins me of when i come home late



    Most often the women(especially older women) in patriarchal cultures like Islam are almost always helping the men create a culture the suppresses their fellow women.   

    For every misogynistic culture theres women within the community who help it to dominate and oppose equal rights. 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #6 - February 09, 2013, 10:26 PM

    Growing up, I hated how my maternal grandmother always blamed women for getting raped. The Middle-East and most of South Asia always have this tendency to blame the victim and not the perpetrator of rape. It insinuated that by men are wild beasts whose nature it is to rape and ravage women who show some skin. That's extremely insulting to men and Islam promotes this.

    Tell the bird of superstitions not to speak
    The string of reasons will tie its beak
    Even if faith comes with water of the seven seas
    It'll evaporate on the griddle of wisdom with a shriek.

     - Josh Malihabadi
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #7 - February 09, 2013, 11:23 PM


    Most often the women(especially older women) in patriarchal cultures like Islam are almost always helping the men create a culture the suppresses their fellow women.   

    For every misogynistic culture theres women within the community who help it to dominate and oppose equal rights. 


    My mother is a White 'Christian' (she thinks that Jesus was an OK dude who had good stuff to say, but is agnostic about god) Brit, so not getting where she is getting these attitudes from.
  • Re: Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #8 - February 10, 2013, 01:39 AM

    My mother says that 'wearing too little' is cruel to men, for tempting them but then denying them. I don't get it.

    Your mother is not a heterosexual male. AFAIC, women can be as cruel as they like in that regard. Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #9 - February 10, 2013, 02:05 AM

    If women need to cover, then men need to wear some kind of lock on their dicks at all times. Just in case. Seems fair.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #10 - February 10, 2013, 02:30 AM

    Wear a belt that keeps a razor blade a couple inches from your dick. If you get a boner with your work clothes on, you receive the due punishment :O
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #11 - February 10, 2013, 02:45 AM

    Speaking of this....



    ‘Project Chastity:’ Algeria launches ‘hijab’ campaign for minor girls
    Friday, 08 February 2013


    Algeria’s Daawa group has mobilized preachers, psychologists and sociologist to “convince” minor girls to wear the hijab in its fifth annual ‘chastity project. (Photo courtesy of Echoroukonline.com)



    An Islamic group in Algeria has mobilized an army of sociologists, psychologists and religious preachers from inside and outside the country in a campaign urging girls as young as 10-years old to wear the religious headscarf, a moved decried by rights activists as irresponsible and counterproductive.

    Hisham Ben Khouda, secretary general of ‘al-Daawa’ group behind the “chastity” campaign, told Algeria’s Echorouk newspaper that his group has managed to convince 300 girls between the ages of 10 and 15 to wear the veil. He said the campaign has been going on for five years and that this year it has taken a national dimension with the participation of many preachers from inside and outside Algeria.

    Radical Kuwaiti preacher Nabil al-Awadhi is scheduled to attend the ‘chastity’ ceremony on April 12 in Algeria’s el-Boulaida where the Islamic headscarf will be introduced to little girls who are “convinced” by preachers, sociologists and psychologists to wear it.

    The Kuwaiti preacher, in a recent visit to Tunisia, called on young girls to wear the hijab, raising anger among human rights activists in the once secular North African state.

    Awadhi said he was in Tunisia to deliver “educational lessons,” but activists and even lawmakers in the constituent assembly urged the government to expel him.

    Organizers of the ‘chastity’ campaign in Algeria say girls are asked to fill out an application answering questions regarding their understanding of Hijab. They also changed the targeted age group from 8-12 to 10-15 based “specialists’ advice.”

    Yousif Hantablawi, a sociologist at Boulaida University, criticized the campaign saying it will have negative effects on little girls. He said minors cannot make such life-changing decisions and the campaigners cannot claim to have “convinced” any girl.

    Djaâfri Djadi Chayaa, the president of the Algerian Observatory of Women, told Echorouk that the project will hurt the girls more than it will benefit them, adding that campaign should’ve tried to educate the girls and teach them social values and proper behavior instead of encouraging them to change their looks by wearing the hijab.

    In Saudi Arabia, a religious preacher recently called for all female babies to be fully covered by wearing the face veil, commonly known as the burka, citing reports of little girls being sexually molested.

    “Burkas for babies”: Saudi cleric’s new fatwa causes controversy

    In a TV interview on the Islamic al-Majd TV, which seems to date back to mid-last year, Sheikh Abdullah Daoud, stressed that wearing the veil will protect baby girls. The Sheikh tried to back his assertion with claims of sexual molestation against babies in the kingdom, quoting unnamed medical and security sources.


    SOURCE

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #12 - February 10, 2013, 05:41 AM

    This why the respect of sheikhs are on a fast decline among the younger generation. It's sad when virginity a woman's vagina is more important than education. 

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #13 - February 10, 2013, 07:02 AM

    In Saudi Arabia, a religious preacher recently called for all female babies to be fully covered by wearing the face veil, commonly known as the burka, citing reports of little girls being sexually molested.

    “Burkas for babies”: Saudi cleric’s new fatwa causes controversy

    In a TV interview on the Islamic al-Majd TV, which seems to date back to mid-last year, Sheikh Abdullah Daoud, stressed that wearing the veil will protect baby girls. The Sheikh tried to back his assertion with claims of sexual molestation against babies in the kingdom, quoting unnamed medical and security sources.
    SOURCE


    Babies? Really?

    I don't think even the Westborough Baptist Church could come up with something like that...

    Is the male gender really that bad? Maybe I'm not actually alive and this isn't actual reality. Maybe I'm instead imprisoned in the hard drive of a baby-raping robot who projects my reality to give me the impression I am not in fact a rape machine.

    Well then again, the babies weren't wearing veils. Doesn't that mean they were asking for it? I mean after all, a woman's silence is a yes... wacko

    Alright Catholics, you guys need to step up your game now. Can't be having the dirty heathens beating you in pedo score...
    Who wants to bet asbie will give me shit for this?
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #14 - February 11, 2013, 05:58 PM

    Growing up, I hated how my maternal grandmother always blamed women for getting raped. The Middle-East and most of South Asia always have this tendency to blame the victim and not the perpetrator of rape. It insinuated that by men are wild beasts whose nature it is to rape and ravage women who show some skin. That's extremely insulting to men and Islam promotes this.


    The victim is blamed but the male perpetrators are never vilified and rarely pay for their crimes against women and children. Because of this ridiculous reasoning women are forced to hide themselves behind burkas and veils or are lead to feel ashamed about their bodies since women are the prey and men are the predators.
    It's a strange paradox because veiling is an insult to the male gender since it implies that they are lustful beasts without regard for morality and law, this from the gender that feels superior to the female gender, yet it cannot show restraint and blames the female for enticement.  finmad
     There is nothing wrong with looking at attractive people of the opposite sex, it's how you handle that attraction that counts.

    Women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness.
    ―Erica Jong
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #15 - August 08, 2013, 11:13 AM

    Conservative muslim women. Thank you for not provoking my lust. Non conservative muslim women.  Obviously I find all six and a half billion plus of you hideously unattractive. Only thing that makes sense.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #16 - August 08, 2013, 04:42 PM

    That's a lot of women!

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #17 - August 08, 2013, 04:44 PM

    Couldn't possibly be the fact I'm not a rapist who views women as less worthy than men.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #18 - August 08, 2013, 11:56 PM

    Women shouldn't be ashamed of their body and feel the need to cover it.If she wants to veil herself,so be it,if she doesn't,don't force it on her.I used to get so pissed when I hang out with my hijabi bestfriend,and every male would give me dirty looks just because my hair is out.
    I wish I could do an experiment where all muslims males wear a veil for one day (preferably in this summer heat)and just know how it feels.
    I used to be told muslims women feel the heat of hell while wearing their veil so that they'll get refreshed by angels in heaven.That's a good one grandma,really good one.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #19 - August 09, 2013, 03:02 AM

    Speaking of this....



    ‘Project Chastity:’ Algeria launches ‘hijab’ campaign for minor girls
    Friday, 08 February 2013

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Algeria’s Daawa group has mobilized preachers, psychologists and sociologist to “convince” minor girls to wear the hijab in its fifth annual ‘chastity project. (Photo courtesy of Echoroukonline.com)



    An Islamic group in Algeria has mobilized an army of sociologists, psychologists and religious preachers from inside and outside the country in a campaign urging girls as young as 10-years old to wear the religious headscarf, a moved decried by rights activists as irresponsible and counterproductive.

    Hisham Ben Khouda, secretary general of ‘al-Daawa’ group behind the “chastity” campaign, told Algeria’s Echorouk newspaper that his group has managed to convince 300 girls between the ages of 10 and 15 to wear the veil. He said the campaign has been going on for five years and that this year it has taken a national dimension with the participation of many preachers from inside and outside Algeria.

    Radical Kuwaiti preacher Nabil al-Awadhi is scheduled to attend the ‘chastity’ ceremony on April 12 in Algeria’s el-Boulaida where the Islamic headscarf will be introduced to little girls who are “convinced” by preachers, sociologists and psychologists to wear it.

    The Kuwaiti preacher, in a recent visit to Tunisia, called on young girls to wear the hijab, raising anger among human rights activists in the once secular North African state.

    Awadhi said he was in Tunisia to deliver “educational lessons,” but activists and even lawmakers in the constituent assembly urged the government to expel him.

    Organizers of the ‘chastity’ campaign in Algeria say girls are asked to fill out an application answering questions regarding their understanding of Hijab. They also changed the targeted age group from 8-12 to 10-15 based “specialists’ advice.”

    Yousif Hantablawi, a sociologist at Boulaida University, criticized the campaign saying it will have negative effects on little girls. He said minors cannot make such life-changing decisions and the campaigners cannot claim to have “convinced” any girl.

    Djaâfri Djadi Chayaa, the president of the Algerian Observatory of Women, told Echorouk that the project will hurt the girls more than it will benefit them, adding that campaign should’ve tried to educate the girls and teach them social values and proper behavior instead of encouraging them to change their looks by wearing the hijab.

    In Saudi Arabia, a religious preacher recently called for all female babies to be fully covered by wearing the face veil, commonly known as the burka, citing reports of little girls being sexually molested.

    “Burkas for babies”: Saudi cleric’s new fatwa causes controversy

    In a TV interview on the Islamic al-Majd TV, which seems to date back to mid-last year, Sheikh Abdullah Daoud, stressed that wearing the veil will protect baby girls. The Sheikh tried to back his assertion with claims of sexual molestation against babies in the kingdom, quoting unnamed medical and security sources.


    SOURCE


    I know this is old but nothings gonna happen in algeria

    We're too fucked up in the head lol. There are night clubs in oran with women half naked ffs
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #20 - September 29, 2013, 04:32 PM

    The amount of misogyny in Islam is TOO DAMN HIGH!

    Just like Johnny Flynn said, the breath I've taken and the one I must to go on.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #21 - September 29, 2013, 04:41 PM

    Growing up, I hated how my maternal grandmother always blamed women for getting raped. The Middle-East and most of South Asia always have this tendency to blame the victim and not the perpetrator of rape. It insinuated that by men are wild beasts whose nature it is to rape and ravage women who show some skin. That's extremely insulting to men and Islam promotes this.



    Yup.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #22 - September 29, 2013, 04:45 PM

    Too much discussion of rape, violence and dogs on these forums.  Cry

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #23 - September 29, 2013, 04:58 PM

    I'd rather these issues were out in the open than pretending they don't exist. Addressing things that make us uncomfortable is how we progress.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #24 - September 29, 2013, 05:16 PM

    They are being discussed...but in their own time and place.



    Necromancer, you still work your magic.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #25 - November 30, 2013, 10:21 AM

    Indeed I do.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #26 - November 30, 2013, 11:01 AM

    It reinforces their behaviour, if you go to countries where people cover, the men will drool over you if your wrist is showing. I remember my friend saying that she felt more worried about being raped in Saudi when doing Hajj than she feels walking around in the UK, even though scholars love to reinforce how high the statistics are here in comparison. She doesn't wear hijab, but when she went there she was in niqaab, someone still ran past and slapped her on the ass. Another friend didn't wear socks because she was hot and everyone was staring at her feet, so she went back to the hotel to get some socks.

    If you keep giving people excuses and telling them they can't control themselves they will behave as such, because they think its in their nature, you'll have less inclination to try and stop yourself. When a woman is attacked, no one reinforces "lower your gaze brother".

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #27 - November 30, 2013, 11:18 AM

    How high the statistics are here in comparison? Seriously? What statistics are they talking about? Because the women in those countries tell a very different story.

    Also, here we collect data on crime and make estimates on how much higher it might be because of underreporting because we have a history of wanting to tackle problems head on and solve them. The impression I get is that many islamic cultures are the reverse.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #28 - November 30, 2013, 11:33 AM

    I believe them that the official statistics are higher. I would expect them to be, in Islamic countries there is a blame culture on the woman, so it would be understandable that she wouldn't go report it, she'd shame her family, no one would want to marry her because she's been used before, she'd be accused of having sex before marriage, the man can just say she tempted him, or she was asking for it. She'd basically be branded a whore and the potential for a normal future would be taken from her, just because of one stupid evil man, and in some cases the women are forced to marry their rapist, especially if they become pregnant as a result. Imagine having to stay with someone that attacked you and now you have to obey them. If I was in that position I wouldn't report it, I'd go chop his head off like that woman in turkey, if your future is going to be taken from you, might as well get some justice.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #29 - November 30, 2013, 11:43 AM

    You see my above comment?

    Couldn't possibly be the fact I'm not a rapist who views women as less worthy than men.


    I honestly think that sums up so much of it.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »