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 Topic: Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots

 (Read 18197 times)
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  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #30 - November 30, 2013, 12:29 PM

    I'll admit that I know very little about how men (in general) view women. I always thought that the way a guy looks at me isn't very different than the way I look at a guy. If I find him attractive, I'll try to talk to him. If there's no interest there, then I'll leave him alone. But I've been told that it's different.

    I was always taught that it was the woman's responsibility to make sure no one lusted after her (hence, hijab), but I am curious how much it really matters. I've been hit on by Muslim guys while wearing hijab and a big, black abaya that gives me zero curves and the only skin I'm showing are my face and my hands. Nothing seems to work. I talked to my brother about it and how hijab is pointless, and his response was basically that I don't understand men and how hard it is on them.

    Just wondering, if you were to see a woman in a t-shirt and jeans (or shorts), what's the general response? Is it that hard to leave her alone? Is it harder for men to be in the company of women than it is for women to be in the company of men? Is it because we (women) are used to male bodies and therefor don't react in the same way?

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #31 - November 30, 2013, 12:44 PM

    Quote
    If I find him attractive, I'll try to talk to him. If there's no interest there, then I'll leave him alone.


    Same.

    Quote
    I was always taught that it was the woman's responsibility to make sure no one lusted after her


    That's fucked up.

    Quote
    Just wondering, if you were to see a woman in a t-shirt and jeans (or shorts), what's the general response?


    If for whatever reason I find her attractive I may give a second look, but it's a quick glance. I don't spend the rest of the day doing her doggy style in my head.

    Quote
    Is it harder for men to be in the company of women than it is for women to be in the company of men?


    If you're brought up where it's normal, no. If you're brought up to think different different, danger danger, probably.

    Quote
    Is it because we (women) are used to male bodies and therefor don't react in the same way?


    Coming from a culture where sex isn't considered bad or something not to be discussed, no.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #32 - November 30, 2013, 02:02 PM

    Ex Hijabi, you may find this interesting. Scroll down.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16296.msg702818#msg702818

    Me and happymurtad pretty much feel the same way. devilsadvokat disagrees for some reason, though in all honestly I tend to see his views being more widespread with muslims. I guess part of it is just that I don't come from that environment. happymurtad actually does come from it though, so perhaps him having female friends made a difference.

    As for your other point, I can respond to that with two quotes.

    you go to countries where people cover, the men will drool over you if your wrist is showing. I remember my friend saying that she felt more worried about being raped in Saudi when doing Hajj than she feels walking around in the UK, even though scholars love to reinforce how high the statistics are here in comparison. She doesn't wear hijab, but when she went there she was in niqaab, someone still ran past and slapped her on the ass. Another friend didn't wear socks because she was hot and everyone was staring at her feet, so she went back to the hotel to get some socks.


    Some men and women can't be friends because they were raised in a way that went on to make mixed friendships slightly awkward for them and some people find it easier because they have always been around the opposite sex in that easy way in the first place. 

    Islam seperates the sexes and then asks the question, without realising that it created the question in the first place. 




    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #33 - November 30, 2013, 02:26 PM

    I had this whole response written up and then my fricken computer froze! Gah, I hate hp. So. Much.

    That's fucked up.


    Yep. It's hard to shake off, too. I'll admit that it was only two years ago that I finally understood that women who wore "revealing" clothing weren't "asking" for it. Though I don't think any of my teachers ever outrightly said, "Women who don't wear hijab deserve to be raped", it was pretty obviously implied. I do really want to apologize to every woman I thought deserved the sexual comments/harrassment/leering because of the clothes she's wearing. Even though I've considered myself a feminist since high school, I'll admit that due to thinking hijab was the best way to go, it was very hard for me to view women not as sexual objects by default. I'm still struggling with that now.

    And I wonder if this whole thing doesn't have a little to do with self-hate? I can only speak for myself, but I wonder if the reason why I held onto hijab for so long was because it allowed me to hide my insecurities while feeling superior? Rather than feeling ugly or "unfeminine" for not liking or wearing make-up, I got to feel religious. Even now that I've (mentally, emotionally, but not physically) abandoned the hijab, I still find it difficult to not think of hijabis who wear make-up as doing so "only for male attention".

    But I'm working on it!

    If for whatever reason I find her attractive I may give a second look, but it's a quick glance. I don't spend the rest of the day doing her doggy style in my head.


    You don't know how relieving that is to hear. I guess because I've been taught all my life that guys are different/more visual/obsessed with sex, I believed that it was true.

    Coming from a culture where sex isn't considered bad or something not to be discussed, no.



    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #34 - November 30, 2013, 02:41 PM

    Ex Hijabi, you may find this interesting. Scroll down.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16296.msg702818#msg702818

    Me and happymurtad pretty much feel the same way. devilsadvokat disagrees for some reason, though in all honestly I tend to see his views being more widespread with muslims. I guess part of it is just that I don't come from that environment. happymurtad actually does come from it though, so perhaps him having female friends made a difference.

    As for your other point, I can respond to that with two quotes.



    Thank you. Seriously. I need to have more discussions like this with guys. God, I love this forum.

    My brother is the guy I talk to the most, and it scared me how much he emphasized men needing to be in separate areas from women (even in restaurants!) and accused me of not being empathetic enough. I've been friends with guys, and I'll admit that I'm guilty in that my interest in them was (initially) because I had a crush on them. But because I was a practicing Muslim and couldn't date, I took friendship as being the second best thing. It bothered me to think that while I could get over my crush and be great friends with the guy, the guy (if he was interested) couldn't and that I was just "teasing" him (which I suppose the whole "friendzone" thing came from, I guess) and Islam definitely chooses that narrative. Did I tell you that we would get in trouble at school if a girl and boy were seen talking to each other? And mostly, it was the girl's job to feel guilty because boys will be boys.

    I never knew it before, but maybe the environment I was raised was more toxic and dysfunctional than I thought. I guess it is unnatural to think that boys and girls must be separated because OH MY GOD THE BOY MIGHT WANT TO HAVE SEX AND SHE'S BEING SUCH A TEASE. One of the reasons why I want to get the heck out of here (my state) is to leave this environment and mindset behind. The sooner the better.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #35 - November 30, 2013, 02:41 PM

    I'll admit that due to thinking hijab was the best way to go, it was very hard for me to view women not as sexual objects by default.


    Yeah, islam does that, though to be fair it's not alone.

    I wonder if the reason why I held onto hijab for so long was because it allowed me to hide my insecurities while feeling superior?


    There's a deeper issue I feel. Some muslims seem to have both a superiority complex and an inferiority complex at the same time. On the one hand, perfect religion, true path, best of the best of the best, allah on their side. On the other hand, look at the world.

    I still find it difficult to not think of hijabis who wear make-up as doing so "only for male attention".


    When women say they do it for themselves, they tend to be telling the truth, though obviously sometimes that is part of it. Same with men. When I dress to impress, occasionally being attractive to the opposite sex will be a part of it. It depends on the situation and my mood.


    You don't know how relieving that is to hear. I guess because I've been taught all my life that guys are different/more visual/obsessed with sex, I believed that it was true.


    Lol check the link I gave you, you start off halfway down page 4. 6 pages in total, I think you'll find it gives insight into the male mind. I do find the islamic "All men are rapists" discourse to be disturbing.



    You're in America, you already are. Life outside the bubble love Wink

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #36 - November 30, 2013, 02:49 PM

    I'll admit. I find the outside world intimidating. It's hard to get out of the bubble when the bubble is all I know.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #37 - November 30, 2013, 02:54 PM

    My brother is the guy I talk to the most, and it scared me how much he emphasized men needing to be in separate areas from women (even in restaurants!) and accused me of not being empathetic enough.


    So basically this?

    "Most girls don't really understand how horny guys are, how much stronger guys are, how guys will rationalize what they do. I see feminists and women on the Internet saying that no means no and women should be able to get as drunk as they want and not be sexually assaulted, and I couldn't agree me. But the reality of the situation is that women have to be careful because guys are one way when they're hanging out and another way when they're horny or worse drunk and horny. That doesn't make what happened okay, but it is what it is."

    That's called victim blaming and rape apologist. Also known as the "skirt's too short" defence. Notice outside of islam how heterosexual men with fully functioning libidos look at them with disgust? Something to ponder.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #38 - November 30, 2013, 02:58 PM

    *sigh* It certainly is. I was operating with cognitive dissonance for a long time. Thinking "Women should be equal!" while blaming myself for not doing enough to not tempt the random guy who called me a tease for not flirting back.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #39 - November 30, 2013, 02:59 PM

    Did you read through the link I gave you? Don't bother reading above, just start halfway down page 4 and go through the other two pages. I mean, you could read the previous ones as well, but, you know, I hadn't joined then. Smiley

    Seriously though, give it a look. Your thoughts would be interesting.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #40 - November 30, 2013, 03:07 PM

    Yes, I'm reading it right now and it's fascinating to say the least. This is not what I was taught! I feel like I deserve a refund or something. All these years, I thought boys saw girls as nothing but sex objects.

    The real world is so much better than I was taught to believe. I really hope more guys are like you, Quod, and not my brother.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #41 - November 30, 2013, 03:11 PM

    Like I said before. My upbringing, human first, male/female second. Islam, male/female first, human second. Surely you remember that post.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #42 - November 30, 2013, 03:20 PM

    I definitely do. I just thought you were the exception. You and I think very much alike on this front:

    Neither one of you are really describing my friendships, but that said I'm very selective on who I consider a friend and don't use the word lightly. It's perfectly possible to have a platonic relationship, it's about mental/emotional association. If someone is my friend then their attractiveness is irrelevant. A few times I have felt an attraction but as I've said if it doesn't happen that attraction dies. I can think of a few women on an intellectual and emotional level I have an incredibly high regard for, people I would not want out of my life. It was apparent nothing was going to happen and the attraction faded. Still good friends now, and I can say in all honestly it's some of the closest friendships I've ever had and purely platonic.


    It's going to take me a while to think that it's possible to be friends with guys long-term without feeling guilty, though. Most of my guy friends up to this point have been attached or gay, which made me feel comfortable because I thought they would never view me sexually. Maybe I can start being friends with guys who are straight and single who I don't first have a crush on.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #43 - November 30, 2013, 03:34 PM

    It's like I said in response to Stardust.

    If you show interest in getting to know someone who finds you attractive, they are going to acknowledge the possibility the attraction is mutual and test the water. If you don't return the feeling, be honest. If they value you enough they'll accept it and want you to stay in their lives while looking elsewhere for something romantic. If they freak and shut you out, fuck them. Not someone you want to associate with anyway.


    If you show interest in someone who fancies you expect them to test the water. It's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's a normal thing.

    One of the things I got asked by a muslim a few years ago was "When you see a naked woman, you want to have sex with her right?" The thing is, as soon as he said that the images that came into my mind were of naked women I wanted to have sex with. ie I thought of Emma but I didn't think of Lisa. It's sort of like being told not to think of a black dog, as soon as he said it, the way he phrased it made me think about situations with certain women (those I'd want to have sex with) and not those I wouldn't want to.

    Another thing is on youtube, it's some American muslims discussing why men and women should be separated. They played a clip with someone interviewing college students  asking the men (only the men for some reason) "Would you have sex with her?" The response tended to be yes. That's actually something worth discussing. Comes back to what happymurtad said about how he's not saying it couldn't happen just that it's not an issue. Something platonic can become something else. The fact you can acknowledge this isn't the same as wanting it to happen.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #44 - November 30, 2013, 05:37 PM

    One of the things I got asked by a muslim a few years ago was "When you see a naked woman, you want to have sex with her right?" The thing is, as soon as he said that the images that came into my mind were of naked women I wanted to have sex with. ie I thought of Emma but I didn't think of Lisa. It's sort of like being told not to think of a black dog, as soon as he said it, the way he phrased it made me think about situations with certain women (those I'd want to have sex with) and not those I wouldn't want to.


    Says a lot for one's personality.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #45 - November 30, 2013, 05:46 PM

    Mine or his? And in what way?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #46 - November 30, 2013, 06:03 PM

    Both, but had yours in mind when I said that. The interesting thing about these types of discussions and articles, is that female sexuality never truly enters the equation in the way that a man's does. It's understandable given the nature of the topic, but it usually makes for statements like "men are all visual" and "sex is purely physical for men." Both of those statements can be true for women as well. It all depends on the person. I think society imposes on men, even in Western societies, the role of someone who is perpetually aroused by anything and everything. If they aren't, or at least make a show of being that way, then their masculinity is questioned.

    Which brings me to you. I have known many men who are the same way. Sex is as much emotional to them as it is stereotypically said to be for women. Every one of them were man enough to admit it and not give a fuck about what anyone else thinks. As it seems to be the case for you too.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #47 - November 30, 2013, 06:28 PM

    I'm honest, simple as. Female sexuality is a good topic, one that deservers being discussed and I image as the above comments grow it will evolve into that providing the thread isn't abandoned. Your comment on what society imposes on men in the west isn't universal. You could take the view that emotion is for women and poets, or you could take the view that there's nothing inherently unmanly in what's commonly referred to as the feminine side (though having that as the term is a discussion in itself). I'm very comfortable and very secure in my masculinity. In no way whatsoever do I believe that because of my gender I should repress integral parts of who I am.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #48 - November 30, 2013, 06:34 PM

    Your comment on what society imposes on men in the west isn't universal.


    I suppose I am limited by my own experience on that one. Good point.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #49 - November 30, 2013, 06:40 PM

    It's not to say I don't display traits typically regarded as male/masculine, it's just I don't deny one natural aspect of myself over another to please others.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #50 - November 30, 2013, 06:46 PM

    Yeah, basically what I was getting at.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #51 - November 30, 2013, 06:49 PM

    Speaking of feminine *cough* I posted a new pic http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9160.msg721669#msg721669 *cough* no one's commented on it except Jibbs criticising my hair for not being curly *cough^ stroke my ego...*ahem* Sorry, something in my throat.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #52 - November 30, 2013, 10:27 PM

    Yep. It's hard to shake off, too. I'll admit that it was only two years ago that I finally understood that women who wore "revealing" clothing weren't "asking" for it. Though I don't think any of my teachers ever outrightly said, "Women who don't wear hijab deserve to be raped", it was pretty obviously implied.


    Child abuse.

    Just wondering, if you were to see a woman in a t-shirt and jeans (or shorts), what's the general response? Is it that hard to leave her alone? Is it harder for men to be in the company of women than it is for women to be in the company of men?


    Shocking you would even ask.

    I'll admit that I know very little about how men (in general) view women. I always thought that the way a guy looks at me isn't very different than the way I look at a guy. If I find him attractive, I'll try to talk to him. If there's no interest there, then I'll leave him alone. But I've been told that it's different.

    I was always taught that it was the woman's responsibility to make sure no one lusted after her (hence, hijab)


    Child abuse.

    I talked to my brother about it and how hijab is pointless, and his response was basically that I don't understand men and how hard it is on them.


    Fucking up your kid with a warped mentality (aka child abuse)

    Thank you. Seriously. I need to have more discussions like this with guys. God, I love this forum.

    My brother is the guy I talk to the most, and it scared me how much he emphasized men needing to be in separate areas from women (even in restaurants!) and accused me of not being empathetic enough.


    See my above comment, add in "raising your kid to become a rapist and not look at 50% of humanity as equal human beings" (aka child abuse).


    It bothered me to think that while I could get over my crush and be great friends with the guy, the guy (if he was interested) couldn't and that I was just "teasing" him (which I suppose the whole "friendzone" thing came from, I guess) and Islam definitely chooses that narrative.


    Fucking up your kid teaching self victim blaming and a lack of strength (aka child abuse).

    Did I tell you that we would get in trouble at school if a girl and boy were seen talking to each other? And mostly, it was the girl's job to feel guilty because boys will be boys.


    Fucking up your kids so they can't have a normal relationship with other human beings (aka child abuse).

    I never knew it before, but maybe the environment I was raised was more toxic and dysfunctional than I thought. I guess it is unnatural to think that boys and girls must be separated because OH MY GOD THE BOY MIGHT WANT TO HAVE SEX AND SHE'S BEING SUCH A TEASE.


    This is child abuse wilfully ingrained into your own children. I'm disturbed enough as a childless man in his mid twenties. If I was a father reading this I honestly think I'd feel ill.

    I'll admit. I find the outside world intimidating. It's hard to get out of the bubble when the bubble is all I know.


    Parents are supposed to teach you how to be strong and live your own lives as adults able to interact with the world. It's neglectful and automatically puts you at a disadvantage.

    Thinking "Women should be equal!" while blaming myself for not doing enough to not tempt the random guy who called me a tease for not flirting back.


    Child abuse.

    All these years, I thought boys saw girls as nothing but sex objects.


    Child abuse.

    I just thought you were the exception.

    It's going to take me a while to think that it's possible to be friends with guys long-term without feeling guilty.


    Do I even need to give my opinion on the above at this point?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #53 - November 30, 2013, 11:29 PM

    As much as I don't like men being perceived as uncontrollable beasts, there are lovely men and I have had many friends who are male. I do think they are wired slightly differently, and that doesn't take away from the fact that there is women who are wired similarly. The male friends I have had over the years have always been quite honest with me and that is where I gather my conclusions from. There's only ever been a few who genuinely wanted friendship, nothing else, and wouldn't take it if it was offered. Plus I've been friends with a few man whores (they amuse me and sicken me at the same time). I'm not saying that all Men want to bang you, but out of those that are keen to befriend you, be aware that there are some with other intentions, and not in a sick way at all, many of my friends who did end up liking me had genuine feelings for me. I just say that because women can be naïve to mens intentions, or more in denial I would say because sometimes they are quite obvious.
    And as much as there are lovely guys that don't like you and lovely guys that do like you, there are horrible beast men, don't be ignorant of that, rape and sexual assault is still a very real thing, I know people who have been gang raped, raped and sexually assaulted and have had some, all be it minor, but not so nice experiences. All I am saying is don't tar men with the same brush, they're not all scum, but please don't be naïve and ignorant to potential dangers.


    I don't ever think a woman deserves to be attacked regardless of what she wears or does. However I do think that women can be a bit stupid, if your going to get ape shit drunk, do it when you know you'll be safe. Yes the man shouldn't do it in the first place, be aware there are dangerous people there always will be to some degree and its just not wise to put yourself in that danger knowingly. Please don't mistake me as saying there is blame on the woman, if you go out in a thong, you will attract the wrong attention, it can't be helped, just be conscious of that. Its not nice that our world is this way, but it is this way. I repeat, i'm not saying she is to blame for being attacked at all, but she is aware of consequences (not rape) such as getting stares and attention and within that crowd may be a sick disgusting man. But on the other side of the coin, there are sick disgusting men who rape niqaabi's and women in their homes. Sexual assault is usually about power and abuse, rather than sexual appetite, and sometimes these sick men do it as a form of punishment to women to teach them a lesson. Ah hell I've just gone back on myself, you can't stop it from happening regardless but you can be cautious to a reasonable extent.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #54 - November 30, 2013, 11:39 PM

    Then there are those that will just rob you blind while you are vulnerable or alone.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #55 - December 01, 2013, 02:14 AM

    I wish my parents didn't care about the hijab. When I eventually have to find a wife, they'll want me to marry a hijabi. My family isn't misogynist in any way shape or form mind you, they want me to marry a 'good educated Muslim girl'. Given how they are fairly religious and believe the hijab is a requirement from God, don't really have a choice, especially since my dad will spend 50 grand on my medical school tuition. D:

    Some girls do look good in a hijab though; probably the only condition I'll accept.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #56 - December 01, 2013, 04:21 AM

    It reinforces their behaviour, if you go to countries where people cover, the men will drool over you if your wrist is showing. I remember my friend saying that she felt more worried about being raped in Saudi when doing Hajj than she feels walking around in the UK, even though scholars love to reinforce how high the statistics are here in comparison. She doesn't wear hijab, but when she went there she was in niqaab, someone still ran past and slapped her on the ass. Another friend didn't wear socks because she was hot and everyone was staring at her feet, so she went back to the hotel to get some socks.

    If you keep giving people excuses and telling them they can't control themselves they will behave as such, because they think its in their nature, you'll have less inclination to try and stop yourself. When a woman is attacked, no one reinforces "lower your gaze brother".


    Same experiences. Different Muslim country. No problems in the US. Ever.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #57 - December 01, 2013, 04:49 AM



    Ah Quod. Your necromancing makes for a sleepless night for me. You are a bright boy.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #58 - December 01, 2013, 04:57 AM

    I wish my parents didn't care about the hijab. When I eventually have to find a wife, they'll want me to marry a hijabi. My family isn't misogynist in any way shape or form mind you, they want me to marry a 'good educated Muslim girl'. Given how they are fairly religious and believe the hijab is a requirement from God, don't really have a choice, especially since my dad will spend 50 grand on my medical school tuition. D:


    Son, you marry who you like, because then if you do not choose wisely you can only blame yourself and won't be angry with your folks or regretful for eternity. Be patient with them and with yourself on this. Take your time to decide.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Article: Modesty, Body Policing and Rape Culture: Connecting the Dots
     Reply #59 - December 01, 2013, 04:59 AM

    I'll admit. I find the outside world intimidating. It's hard to get out of the bubble when the bubble is all I know.


    I just have to say, here, that even though I have resisted all temptation, I really do like all this bubble stuff. Brilliant.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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