Reverting back to Islam

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Reply #30 - January 24, 2013, 11:06 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 24, 2013, 06:00 AM
I am aware about the endless debates with regards to the scientific information in the Quran. But Muhammad meticulously edited and audited the Old Testamant.

Yes, he edited it. Though not very well. Prophets who lived hundreds (if not thousands) of years apart are lumped together, & vital information is left out. He didn't sanitise the Old Testament, he just left out information. Not to worry: we still get plenty of violence; whole cities are cleansed of their inhabitants - eg Sodom and Gomorrah. The Quran is obsessive when it comes to the pain and torture of hell (in fact hell is its pet topic) - the author delights in the suffering and eternal misery of those who reject Islam (interestingly the abode of the damned barely rates a mention in the Old Testament).

Also: gnostic & apocryphal material made it into this choppy & repetitive text. I suggest you research "legends and the Quran" to discover some interesting roots of this text.
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Reply #31 - January 24, 2013, 11:31 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 24, 2013, 08:53 AM
That’s how I think previously, I will never go back. Maybe you are very young and your spirit is rebellious now. Give yourself the time, re-read the Quran again. At least, if you cannot accept some of its teachings, you will realize that some of its injunctions are very noble, especially in the matter of orphan’s treatment, and description to be filial. Muhammad can just brush this aside if it is unimportant for his mission; after all, he was accused of being a debaucher, right? Why should he take the trouble to advice his followers to be kind to orphan then and treated their mothers respectfully even if they are not believers then? To me, this is a very powerful magnet that “attracts” me back.
Yes, the description about hell fire is a little over the board, and I cannot rationalize that either. But, since, we share this world with the likes of Hitler and Stalin, I don’t mind if these two are roasted in hell fire vehemently.

I think that, when it comes to moral teachings, the Quran is really low quality.

For example, it does not even contain the basic notion of "do not kill other people no matter what".

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Reply #32 - January 24, 2013, 11:51 AM

Quote from: Tlaloc on January 24, 2013, 11:31 AM
For example, it does not even contain the basic notion of "do not kill other people no matter what".

You consider that absolute teaching a rational and moral one?

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Reply #33 - January 25, 2013, 04:02 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 24, 2013, 08:53 AM
.
Yes, the description about hell fire is a little over the board, and I cannot rationalize that either. But, since, we share this world with the likes of Hitler and Stalin, I don’t mind if these two are roasted in hell fire vehemently.

Yes and you shouldn't have to rationalize and make excuses for it. Billions of people aren't a Hitler or a Stalin. I am not a Hitler or a Stalin. My hair or skin doesn't deserve to burn vehemently.

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"The intellectual runs away, afraid of drowning; the whole business of love is to drown in the sea." - Rumi
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Reply #34 - January 25, 2013, 05:39 PM

Quote from: arX on January 24, 2013, 11:51 AM
You consider that absolute teaching a rational and moral one?

Well, it's "rational" as in it's not self contradictory.
Other than that, I just consider it a moral teaching.

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Reply #35 - January 25, 2013, 06:48 PM

hmmm very suspicious ... I think this is a fake account from a muslim who never left the hideous pathetic religion in the first place
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Reply #36 - January 25, 2013, 10:30 PM

Quote from: Jema on January 24, 2013, 09:16 AM
Why can't you just adopt those very few positive things about Islam without taking the rest of the negative baggage? Those noble values are universal and are not specific to Islam. Any person with half a brain cell can figure out what is kind and what is evil at that basic moral level. I'm not going to glorify Islam for teachings that should be common sense.

I agree. There are universal values which are common for every decent human being. Those values are common to people of every religion as well as atheists. Why do Muslims always brag?

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Reply #37 - January 26, 2013, 12:30 AM

Quote from: serpentofeden on January 25, 2013, 06:48 PM
hmmm very suspicious ... I think this is a fake account from a muslim who never left the hideous pathetic religion in the first place

^
Agreed, something smells a bit fishy alright. Re: Shinsengumi, you joined at the end of July last year but I can't find an introduction from you. . . I know lots of people join without intro's and appologies if I have you all wrong and come across as some sort of unofficial CEMB policeman. Well lets say I am wrong, how goes the faith, have you fully reverted or are you still undecided? As for editing "The old Testament" just because you can make something sound less bizzare, doesn't make it true.
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Reply #38 - January 26, 2013, 12:36 AM

Hey diddle diddle rhyme

Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle,
The cow jumped over the moon.
The little dog laughed to see such fun
And the dish ran away with the spoon!

-----------------------------------
Lets try again

Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle,
The cow didn't actually jump over the moon, it only stepped over a branch.
The little dog barked to see such fun
And a dish was to be found on a near by table with a spoon
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Reply #39 - January 26, 2013, 04:27 AM

Quote
Agreed, something smells a bit fishy alright. Re: Shinsengumi, you joined at the end of July last year but I can't find an introduction from you. . . I know lots of people join without intro's and appologies if I have you all wrong and come across as some sort of unofficial CEMB policeman. Well lets say I am wrong, how goes the faith, have you fully reverted or are you still undecided? As for editing "The old Testament" just because you can make something sound less bizzare, doesn't make it true.

Quote
hmmm very suspicious ... I think this is a fake account from a muslim who never left the hideous pathetic religion in the first place

Well, just as I expected. Somebody will eventually start questioning my real identity, whether I am a fake apostate, just like some Muslims like to do with testimonies of apostasy. Of course, I cannot convincingly prove to everybody that I was an apostate before as this is an online forum. I just want to share my inner feeling of “returning back” to the fold of Islam, and the factors that induce such call. I am now a jihadist to police this site now? What a joke.
You see, no one here condemn the lie propagated in ali sina’s site about the gang raped tragedy in India which he knowingly conceal facts, blaming the Muslims. Besides that, I admit that I am in the process of reconsidering my apostasy as I feel more and more false misinformation are being deliberately propagated. I gave the Quran a second chance to explain itself to me.
Quote
Yes and you shouldn't have to rationalize and make excuses for it. Billions of people aren't a Hitler or a Stalin. I am not a Hitler or a Stalin. My hair or skin doesn't deserve to burn vehemently.

Sakura-chan, give the Quran a second chance. Answer my question, why Muhammad criticizes the Bedouin Arabs harshly in the Quran? Actually, even more than the Jews? You cannot dismiss all this and emphasize solely on one topic, anti-Jewish or anti-Christians or anti-disbelievers. The Quran did condemn the Muslims sternly too.
What say you?
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Reply #40 - January 26, 2013, 05:25 AM

Shinsengumi, you seem to be under the impression that we here represent Ali Sina. You should really go to his site and lodge your complaints. We at the CEMB are not affiliated with him or his forum and we certainly do not entertain the same ideas about Muslims.

If you want to be Muslim again, go and be Muslim. What is the purpose of you trying to convince the rest of us here?

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Reply #41 - January 26, 2013, 09:15 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 26, 2013, 04:27 AM
Well, just as I expected. Somebody will eventually start questioning my real identity, whether I am a fake apostate, just like some Muslims like to do with testimonies of apostasy. Of course, I cannot convincingly prove to everybody that I was an apostate before as this is an online forum. I just want to share my inner feeling of “returning back” to the fold of Islam, and the factors that induce such call. I am now a jihadist to police this site now? What a joke.
You see, no one here condemn the lie propagated in ali sina’s site about the gang raped tragedy in India which he knowingly conceal facts, blaming the Muslims. Besides that, I admit that I am in the process of reconsidering my apostasy as I feel more and more false misinformation are being deliberately propagated. I gave the Quran a second chance to explain itself to me. Sakura-chan, give the Quran a second chance. Answer my question, why Muhammad criticizes the Bedouin Arabs harshly in the Quran? Actually, even more than the Jews? You cannot dismiss all this and emphasize solely on one topic, anti-Jewish or anti-Christians or anti-disbelievers. The Quran did condemn the Muslims sternly too.
What say you?

I had a quick look on Ali Sina's site the first time you posted about his 'deceptions'. Surprise, surprise, I found only one thing relating to the Gang-Rape, and that wasn't even posted by Sina himself. I do imagine it as being the kind of thing Ali Sina would say, however, there is nothing from him about the Gang Rape. Do you care to provide me a link to where he does say it?
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Reply #42 - January 26, 2013, 03:14 PM

I don't know about anyone else, but Ali Sina had no impact on me leaving Islam.
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Reply #43 - January 26, 2013, 05:22 PM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 26, 2013, 04:27 AM
You see, no one here condemn the lie propagated in ali sina’s site about the gang raped tragedy in India which he knowingly conceal facts, blaming the Muslims.

1. This is not Ali Sina's website.
2. Ali Sina does not post here.
3. Yet, if you read years and years of threads in this forum, you can actually find a lot of people disliking Ali Sina when he got brought up.

So, what are you trying to say?

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Reply #44 - January 26, 2013, 06:19 PM

If you go back to Islam, you must admit that you will then believe that Mohammad rode a magical horse up to heaven, he split the moon into two, Suleiman the prophet could talk to ants, musa the prophet could turn a staff into a snake, the sea could be split into two, Jesus was born without his mother having sex, a city was destroyed by falling rocks, the first human was somehow sent down into heaven being 60 cubits tall, two angels being on your shoulders all the time, I would go on and on but I have a life to live.
Also if you go back to Islam, you would support people being burnt in hell for merely using logic and rationalization, something Allah supposedly created himself. You would support having sex with slaves, killing apostates, allowing men to have multiple wives, etc etc
I don't like to swear, but if you do support all that, then...well, fuck you.
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Reply #45 - January 26, 2013, 07:07 PM

Even though I've never really been that devout, I think I understand where you're coming from & why. I think a large part of it is about belonging & identity- a sense of belonging to & identifying with a community that you have always been close to & has always been a part of you & the need for social contact that arises from that. Many people underestimate how powerful this can be together with a need for some sort of spirituality, particularly more so as you get older. Islam is fundamentally flawed & at it's core untrue but it can cater to these needs & although many muslims can be primitive in their thought processes & their way of life, I can sometimes see the joy & happiness they derive from their faith & way of life.
I try not to hate them even when the extremists among them wish to hate & even kill me for disbelieving partially because they & their community is a part of me & always will be. I still identify myself as muslim & always will.
Have you ever soon the movie Dances with Wolves or The Last Samurai? I kind of think of fully practicing muslims in the same way I viewed the Native American Sioux Indians in the movie Dances with Wolves or the 19th century Japanese villagers & Samurai in the The Last Samurai movie- they were crude, unsophisticated, simple people & considered savages by their occupying powers at that time but in their simplicity or primitiveness they can also possesses a certain charm- particularly the females- lol!

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Reply #46 - January 28, 2013, 12:54 AM

Assuming that Islam is true, I think you're pretty much screwed dude whether you go back or not

Quote
"How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;-" Surah 3:86-87

To me this seems pretty clear to me. If you were a Muslim before and then rejected it you get no second chance :/ something to think about maybe? Like Happymurtad said:

Quote from: happymurtad on January 21, 2013, 03:10 PM
You should not go back to Islam because Islam can not offer you anything in return. Islam never promises to make you happy or to give you an easier life on earth. Islam does not help you get a better job, it does not help you have a successful relationship with your significant other. Islam is all about obeying and doing what Muhammad wanted you to do-no matter how shitty your life turns out because of it. In return for submitting your logic, your reasoning, your desire, and your ambitions to the commands of the self proclaimed prophet, you are promised a big, fat carrot in the sky after you die. The only problem is that there really is no carrot. You will die and that will be the end of it. The only life that you are sure to experience, the only body and mind that you are sure to have, will have been wasted on archaic rules and superstitious beliefs. I think I speak on behalf of the majority of people on this forum when I strongly advise you against making a move like that.

These verses I quoted from the Quran seem to bolster what he just told you. You get nothing in return from going back (not even the fat carrot in the sky), in fact even the god of the Quran doesn't want you to come back at this point if you are to believe the Quran. To him you sealed your fate when you left the first time (If you are assuming Islam is true that is)

"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #47 - January 28, 2013, 04:14 PM

The prophet tells us to treat orphans nicely because he was one.
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Reply #48 - January 28, 2013, 04:31 PM

Never read anything by Ali Sina. Actually I dont know anything about him. You know what I read that caused me to leave Islam? The Quran and the Hadith.

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Reply #49 - January 28, 2013, 05:40 PM

Quote from: Pepe on January 28, 2013, 04:31 PM
You know what I read that caused me to leave Islam? The Quran and the Hadith.
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Reply #50 - January 29, 2013, 02:34 AM

I don't even know who Ali Sina is so there

"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #51 - March 25, 2013, 05:21 AM

Quote from: JayMac on January 26, 2013, 09:15 AM
I had a quick look on Ali Sina's site the first time you posted about his 'deceptions'. Surprise, surprise, I found only one thing relating to the Gang-Rape, and that wasn't even posted by Sina himself. I do imagine it as being the kind of thing Ali Sina would say, however, there is nothing from him about the Gang Rape. Do you care to provide me a link to where he does say it?

As for the crime in Delhi, the man who injured the girl by pushing an iron rod into her vagina which caused her death was a Muslim.

http://alisina.org/blog/2013/01/19/basis-of-morality/

That's a blatant lie. The guy who did that was not a Muslim. Read the whole article, how bias he is.
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Reply #52 - March 25, 2013, 05:38 AM

That sounds like Sina. In any case, that action is not supported by any Islamic text, or any Hindu text, so the perp's religion is kind of irrelevant.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Reply #53 - March 25, 2013, 06:00 AM

Well it looks like others have already said this, but what does that Ali Sina guy have to do with us? I don't like the haters like him and many others, but it doesn't make Islam true. We can compile the hate and lies that are spread about Muslims for pages, and we can all agree, and still, it wont change the actual religion of Islam.

If you want to deny history and science, do it, no one is stopping you. Just make sure you choose the right sect of the 72 sects or else you might go to hell. While you're at it, make sure you choose the right religion, because if there was a clear sign from god, I'm sure everyone will convert to the correct religion. Until then, good luck with your choices :/
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Reply #54 - March 25, 2013, 08:16 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 24, 2013, 09:08 AM
I honestly do not know. But I do know that the hatemongers are not only denouncing the religion, but to severely demonize and dehumanize the Muslims as well. And in doing so, they resort to lies and falsification of information. They initially accused their enemies of these traits, but now absorbing the traits themselves.

My advice, stop using ali sina as an excuse.

You can easily separate the lies from the truth doing you're own research. Indeed taking any man's posts on an internet forum as the only truth is a failing. If you were researching you'd know that in the grand scheme of things, many of his claims and true, but in his hate many also are twisted half truths or total lies.

Realising that ali sina was a hatemonger didn't make me return to Islam, it made me and my friends create this forum, to offer a non hate way to challenge Islam and support ex muslims.

Also, how on earth can you sit here and say that you are starting to find the formerly unacceptable; acceptable? You even state:

Quote
i.e. license to have sexual intercourse with one's slaves... And many other verses that initially form doubts in my mind seems to be now quite acceptable.

Which is more than just some response to ali sina's lies. Since he never lied about this, this disgusting violation of another human's being right to not be raped just because they have been captured and forced into slavery is TRUE.

But you call it 'QUITE acceptable'. How is that now more acceptable because you lost faith in ali sina?

That says more to me than ali sina's lie about the rape in India.

How anyone, especially in this day and age can find raping your slaves quite acceptable really does baffle me.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Reply #55 - March 25, 2013, 10:59 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 20, 2013, 05:46 AM
I had been dwelling in atheism for quite some times, then I shifted to agnoticism. This period on uncertainty took more than 4 years. Nevertheless, recently, there has been a stronge "urge" within me to revert back to Islam. This sounds quite strange but I missed those days when I stand in prayer and recited the Quran.

In fact, there is a fresh awakening interest to re-read the Quran again. I admitted, the book is beautiful when read in Arabic original.

Anyone here share similar feeling?

Hi Shinsengumi .. boy reading your nick makes me to remember a 18 year old Japanese Girl named "Megumi" . She is used to work as a part time student. She was very very obedient and graceful girl. I used to tease her telling her all the time.. "Women should be the boss.. leave the slave mentality".. ..Air your opinion.. rule the world....

well welcome to CEMB.. Well I am not supposed to write/respond to new member but your fascinating journey of going in and out of Islam for that matter any religion makes me to remember my past.. So I am just saying hello to you..

And for people like me .. religions are like underwear., it is best to wash them every day and use a new one every day. may be twice a day. Morning one religion..evening one religion.. One computer to one religion other computer for another religion.. ....lol....

again I am so glad you joined CEMB.. Please continue to read and write. I don't think people here worry about "who goes in to what religion and who comes out of what religion "

with best wishes
yeezevee

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Reply #56 - March 25, 2013, 11:48 AM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on January 22, 2013, 05:10 AM
Thanks for all your feedbacks. It's nice to receive replies that do not sound bigoted. Today, I read the ali sina's website again( alisina.org), he committed another lie by saying that the gang raped that occurred in India were committed by the Muslims, while in actual fact, it's all over the news that they were not Muslims, but Hindus. You all can check his article there.

This come as a heavy blow to me again because if he can lie at this obvious thing, how about something related to the Quran?

In replying to "happymurtad", you equate the Quran with normal music, well, i have no objection to that, but have you ever think how Muhammad can think and dictated so many information throughout his 23 years life? I mean, look at the Quran, it virtually discussed everything, from natural phenomena to inheritance division.

Also, Quran is very clear about who we can marry, who we cannot( mothers, sisters, etc), which i can say by human standard is acceptable, either in ancient time to present time.

Seems like the "faith" is starting to grown again.

Screw Ali Sina, why are u clingin on other people's opinions so much, I mean I am not saying u shouldn't consider them but u can't cling to them all the time, the head u r carrying on ur shoulders has a purpose, that purpose is to think.

Yes look at the Quran it has literally discussed everything from How to beat ur wife, how to fuck ur slaves to failed description of Natural phenomenta as that of the Origin of the Universe, Embryology and the rest.

Good Luck
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Reply #57 - March 25, 2013, 02:30 PM

Quote from: Shinsengumi on March 25, 2013, 05:21 AM
As for the crime in Delhi, the man who injured the girl by pushing an iron rod into her vagina which caused her death was a Muslim.

http://alisina.org/blog/2013/01/19/basis-of-morality/

That's a blatant lie. The guy who did that was not a Muslim. Read the whole article, how bias he is.

What's this obsession with Sina. I guess some people just need an authority figure to tell them what to believe and how to think and you're one of those people, so in your monochromatic worldview it's either Sina or Allah/Mo that is the infallible bearer of truth. Can't you just think for yourself? And get your information from multiple sources and fact check to make sure you're not blindly consuming propaganda?
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Reply #58 - December 15, 2014, 06:08 PM

Quote from: Al-Alethia on January 20, 2013, 07:40 AM
Welcome Shinsengumi
A few nights ago I found myself wanting to do my old nightly du'a routine. I'd do wudu, read ayat-al-kursi, surat-al-Mulk, and a couple of du'as before bed. I found myself about to start before I realised I wasn't Muslim anymore and then I became sad for about 2 seconds thinking of what I was missing out on. I think it's normal to have those little kind of moments, and it's not awfully upsetting or difficult for me at all but I think it might be slightly different for you as you appear to be into prayer and Quran (as opposed to my fleeting nostalgia over my old routine). You can still read/listen to the Quran if you're so inclined, no big deal. I love love love music and thanks to that shaitan blocked my heart and the Quran was never really appealing to me and I don't miss it at all.

Tbh, I still make du'as for people, despite not even believing in Allah, I just feel like I have to when I'm asked (especially by my mum). Just saying "ya Allah, help my mother with X, Y, Z" helps me deal with the guilt of not being able to do "real" du'a for my mum so I do that, it's silly but it makes me feel better. If the Quran does that for you, then just read it!

That's a great saying, it is why we left Islam la allah ya shaitan rabbil alamin
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