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 Topic: I'm an "ex future convert".

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  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #30 - February 11, 2013, 12:15 AM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on February 10, 2013, 11:59 PM
    ^Tell it to Yusuf, AS

    There's no evidence that the story of prophet Yusuf is true. grin12
    And anyway, the dream wasn't specific enough.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #31 - February 11, 2013, 12:47 AM
    Welcome lluvia.

    This is a really fascinating story. I should congratulate you first on doing the sensible thing and studying Islam and reading the Quran first. It's good you went through both sides of the argument. You really dodged a bullet by not doing hasty conversion.

    About your dreams, I have had similar experiences in my own life which led me to believe I was bieng guided to a particular path. I use to open the quran randomly and read asking for answers to questions I had in my head. I was always satisfied with he answer I found in the quran. Looking back now I see how i use to interpret to see what I wanted to see. What made me break this cycle was the fact that different people interpreted as different, so how was I too know if was reading it right.

    This individual you say was the guy from your dream. He claimed to do sorcery, did you ever call him up to demonstrate this feat. I'm always curious to know exactly how they go about achieving this. I ask this because I have come across Muslims who happen to 'practice' black magic (serious) Roll Eyes. I have had family members who apparently have been victims of sorcery. whistling2. I always ask for evidence yet none is ever forthcoming. Also I know a lot and I mean a lot of people who have these dream experiences, my own mother bieng one. I have seen these dreams bieng interpreted by saints and I assure they are very hit and miss. Don't get too hung up upon them.

    That sorcery guy replied typically to you when you told him you wouldn't convert, They will always say you need to learn more about Islam. you know more than enough.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #32 - February 11, 2013, 02:00 AM
    Hallo Lluvia. parrot

    If you don't mind me asking, what's with all the rain? Your picture is rain and your name is rain and your languages of rain rain rain itsy bitsy spider rain rain.

    I once had a strange run in with a dream, here is my story:

    One night I had a dream that I was going to have a shower. Just before I got in however, I had to take a shit. Much to my surprised, the shit ended up being the biggest shit of my life, a giant monolith standing a couple feet out of the toilet that I was just sitting on. My shit was so massive in fact, that I rushed into my shower to clean myself since I knew that no amount of toilet paper could handle that beast.

    I then woke up and thought to myself that I must finally be losing it. That was the second night in a row that I had dreamt about taking a shit, although the first dream was a horror in a different way.

    I carried on through my day normally, and told a couple friends about my dream because I figured it was good for some laughs. Eventually I got home and night time came. I got off my computer and went to go take a shower, and then realized that I had to take a shit. Not only that, but the whole scenario was playing out EXACTLY as in the dream - the same bathroom in my home, the same lighting conditions and the same time of day. At this point I was tripping balls.

    My shit turned out to be entirely normal however, and my butt completely tamable by toilet paper. I then concluded that dreams were really fucked up, and took my shower normally.

    Je suis trop fou wacko
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #33 - February 11, 2013, 10:33 AM
    Zakir Naik was ur Hero???  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  mysmilie_977  mysmilie_977  idiot2

    the biggest fraud was ur Hero. never mind

    Welcome to the forum.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #34 - February 11, 2013, 10:35 AM
    Quote from: sethyboy0 on February 11, 2013, 02:00 AM
    Hallo Lluvia. parrot

    If you don't mind me asking, what's with all the rain? Your picture is rain and your name is rain and your languages of rain rain rain itsy bitsy spider rain rain.

    I once had a strange run in with a dream, here is my story:

    One night I had a dream that I was going to have a shower. Just before I got in however, I had to take a shit. Much to my surprised, the shit ended up being the biggest shit of my life, a giant monolith standing a couple feet out of the toilet that I was just sitting on. My shit was so massive in fact, that I rushed into my shower to clean myself since I knew that no amount of toilet paper could handle that beast.

    I then woke up and thought to myself that I must finally be losing it. That was the second night in a row that I had dreamt about taking a shit, although the first dream was a horror in a different way.

    I carried on through my day normally, and told a couple friends about my dream because I figured it was good for some laughs. Eventually I got home and night time came. I got off my computer and went to go take a shower, and then realized that I had to take a shit. Not only that, but the whole scenario was playing out EXACTLY as in the dream - the same bathroom in my home, the same lighting conditions and the same time of day. At this point I was tripping balls.

    My shit turned out to be entirely normal however, and my butt completely tamable by toilet paper. I then concluded that dreams were really fucked up, and took my shower normally.

    Je suis trop fou wacko



     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Tell me ur location I wanna buy u a drink. Not everything can make me laugh like this.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #35 - February 11, 2013, 10:49 AM
    I have had some weird dreams as well but I rememmber the one I am about to tell u very vividly because it was and felt so real.

    I was at home sitting in front of my PC, basically lingering on the web, then I decided I would lay down so I stood up and laid down, I usually sleep on my stomach so I layed down with my head tilted to the left and facing the door, I was staring at the door which was partially opened (~10%) and then just as I was staring at it I realized someone is on the other side of the door and I saw something stretching his/her/its (not sure) hand/limb through that opening of the door and then i immediately wake up breathing fast and I think to myself, OK it was a bad dream and then I go back to what I was doing I am still staring at the door though and then, here it is, it happened again, I see the same thing again something is extenging its hand through the opening of the door and I get scared and wake up again and I think to myself, didn't I just wake up, is this real and then I go on laying down again and it happens again and then the 3rd time I woke up for real, I woke up sweating, I wasn't sure if this is real or I am still in this multiple layer dream, I was pinching myself so I can see if I feel it if I am really awake, I went I checked the door for whoever or whatever it was and there was nothing, it was 4 am or something like that, I washed my face but I was soooooo tired, I turned on the TV and started watching some nonsense I didn't even wanna watch, I was still in a doubt though, I wasn't sure if I really woke up or I am still dreaming and then I staid like that till dawn, I was fighting not to fall asleep my head was careening to and fro while I was fighting to keep myself awake.

    Well shit happens, our brains are complex organs and u never know what they are up to.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #36 - February 11, 2013, 01:46 PM
    Hey everybody, thank you for the welcoming Cheesy

    Mohammed Mohsin:
    I've read your post.. It was interesting yet sad at the same time. But it makes me hope that maybe, one day, we can all live in peace without irrational religious beliefs. The most peaceful people I know are not the most religious.

    ateapotist:
    Sure dreams are the product of our brain (and are, most of the time, illogical anyways...). I'll look up at the documentary when I have time, it seems interesting!

    e-raja:
    The muslim guy didn't demonstrate clear evidence for his sorcery.. He only told me two or three tricks but would not talk a lot about it since it is haram. He told me that before he reverted to islam he did shirk and profaned the quran, but he never was precise about it.
    Quote
    That sorcery guy replied typically to you when you told him you wouldn't convert, They will always say you need to learn more about Islam. you know more than enough.

    Exactly. The funny thing is that after he told me that, I taught him the principle of abrogation which he didn't even know. First he denied it, then he copy-pasted an interminable explication from some muslim scholar... Well, it's always like that with muslims anyway.

    sethy-boy0:
    Cheesy your post made me laugh!!
    As for my pseudo, I have Spanish classes and when we were learning the weather vocabulary I liked the word "lluvia". I had no idea what to take as a pseudo, so I took it, then I wanted an avatar and a message to fit with it. And yea... I like rainy landscape and the sound of the rain.

    Quote from: sturmgewehr on February 11, 2013, 10:33 AM
    Zakir Naik was ur Hero???  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  mysmilie_977  mysmilie_977  idiot2

    the biggest fraud was ur Hero. never mind

    Welcome to the forum.

    Oh please. :(
    But yea of course, I realized afterwards that he was a liar and a manipulator. Well, on the other hand, it's not hard to realize, except for convinced and narrow-minded muslims or for ignorant maybe-future-converts, which I was.
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #37 - February 11, 2013, 01:56 PM
    Hi lluvia can you respond to my pm, thank you
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #38 - February 11, 2013, 02:03 PM
    I just answered it Smiley
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #39 - February 11, 2013, 02:17 PM
     parrot

    Book "paranormality" has fascinating discussion about dreams.  And by the way, our brains are brilliant pattern finding machines, even those that are not there - very valuable if that rustle is a tiger - add in your age and a strange interesting bloke.....
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #40 - February 11, 2013, 07:17 PM
    Bienvenido Lluvia.

    Your dreams are like something from a David Lynch film. I wish I had dreams that vivid.

    The dream with your mother, what makes you think your mother is telling you to read the Quran? She doesn't actually mention the Quran, or chapter 4, or any book for that matter. The number 171 might refer to anything.

    If she wanted to send you a message in a dream that you should read that passage from the Quran, couldn't she have said "Regardez le Coran, chapitre 4, verset 171"?

    The fact that when you looked in the Quran it turned out to be a verse about Christianity and your mother just happens to be a Christian is not much of a coincidence, seeing as Christianity is the main religion of your country, so it is not a great coincidence that she is a Christian. And Christian beliefs and ideas are a major theme of the Quran, in fact most of the stories within the Quran are copied from Biblical stories so it is hardly surprising that when you checked verse 171 of chapter 4, you found a verse there about Christians.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #41 - February 11, 2013, 09:14 PM
    Also, the fact that she said "This is the number 171" when referring to the burning instead of "this is because of the number 171" meaning that one could arbitrarily interpret that that verse was bad instead of good. Regardless, this is not to say that it refers to that verse anyway.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #42 - February 12, 2013, 04:10 PM
    It;s really coincidental because, 80% of the Quran is about burning non-believers, so I can open the Quran right now to a random page, and find a verse that is talking about my fate as a non-believer and beckon me to Islam. A Muslim would point to this and say see look Allah is talking to you. However, as you can see it's a possibility game you can calculate based on math not miracles. The same with the chances of flipping to a verse that talks about either Jews or Christians.

    Also lluvia were you as shocked as I were, as an ex-Christian, to read up on the Quranic version of the birth of Jesus? How Mary gave birth to Jesus under a date tree in the desert. I knew right then and there that the Quran was clearly copying old myths of Christianity, and twisting it to have an Arabic flavor and be suited to Islamic law. The Christian version has Joseph present at birth, the Islamic version has her alone (god forbid a man watches his wife give birth) Also in the Christian version everyone believes that she was impregnated by God (pretty crazy but whatever), in the Islamic version realistically, no one would have believed her and would have thought adultery and promptly stoned her. Islam has baby Jesus speaking his first words as soon as he was born (as proof that he was a miracle from God, so Mary didn't have to be stoned to death for possible adultery). I'm not sure but I don't think that's how it went in the Christian version, he just grew up a carpenter, and lived a regular life until he started doing his miracle things later in life. I'm going to be biased as an ex-Christian and say the Islamic version makes no god-damn sense, especially since it's trying to re-tell a story of a prophet that does not belong to it, and existed thousands of years before. It's like, even the story of Buddha is pretty crazy, but I'd be offended if a new religion showed in the US based off of Buddhism and was like, oh by the way Buddha wasn't born in India he was born in America and was white. That's how I feel about some of the Biblical stories in the Quran that have been changed corrected  Roll Eyes.  
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #43 - February 12, 2013, 04:53 PM
    moi, Tonyt, kutta and Crunchy Cds, all your arguments are valid. Our brains tend to make links between things ; sometimes those links are relevant, sometimes not. In that case, I only made links with that verse, but it's not like it was precise enough to be an irrefutable "proof" or "sign of God", and it's not like I believe in the abrahamic god anyway. When thinking about the concept of that God rationally, it makes no sense and it's self-contradictory. The "most merciful" who punishes human beings just for having come to the wrong answer is not the "most merciful".

    Quote from: Crunchy Cds
    It's like, even the story of Buddha is pretty crazy, but I'd be offended if a new religion showed in the US based off of Buddhism and was like, oh by the way Buddha wasn't born in India he was born in America and was white. That's how I feel about some of the Biblical stories in the Quran that have been changed corrected  Roll Eyes.

     Cheesy You made a good point.  Afro
    Personnally, I was not that shocked about Jesus' birth since I was christian only by name. I never went to the church except as a baby for my baptism and later on for my first communion. I never prayed and never read the bible (as a child, my mother would only read a few biblical stories to me). However, I discovered that the biblical figures and their stories have been altered in the quranic/islamic version. For example Adam, Moses, Jesus, etc. were all muslims, really  Huh? Yea right, we all know that Adam paid the zakat, that Moses prayed in Arabic and that Jesus cutted off the hand of the thieves Cheesy
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #44 - February 12, 2013, 05:56 PM
    Some Muslims argue that the word 'Muslim' just means someone who submits to God.  Roll Eyes However I don't buy that because famous prophets from Biblical times get cut a lot of slack, but if you were a regular Jew or Christian, and you did not obey Muhammad the new messenger but chose to follow the beliefs of the past prophets you were, not 'Muslim' therefore you were not believers and thus damned to hell and pay extra taxes. Jesus, Moses and all those guys get cut slack because they were very popular and that's how Islam was able to entice other cultures by saying see, we love you're prophets too.

    It's fascinating because at least Christians acknowledge that Moses, and Adam were all Hebrew people. But the Quran never gives Jews any credit, even though the religion is clearly based off of their myth. Regardless of if you came to 'correct' it or whatever, you'd think they'd give the Hebrews some credit for starting the basic foundation of Islam. Nothing... and not only that but they are damned very openly as well for spreading the 'wrong' message.
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #45 - February 12, 2013, 06:43 PM
    Just another point that you guys might find interesting.  There are a total of three instances in the Qur'aan that talk about the trinity. One being the one llevia posted (which doesn't specifically talk about the Holy Spirit), one being between 5:72 and 5:75 and one being the 116th verse in the fifth surah. So, the "trinity" could apply to either of them. It is very interesting to note that the Qur'aan never mentions anything about the third part of the trinity (the Holy Spirit) especially considering that most orthodox christians do hold that faith. However, when the Qur'aan does decide to be specific in surah five, it talks about the divinity of Mary. In fact, between 5:72 and 5:75, it spends some time refuting the fact that Jesus or Mary is not a God because they are mere human beings who ate food. Therefore, this implies that the trinity is not the trinity that most orthodox christians believe in (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit) but rather (God, Mary, Jesus). This seems to make sense as Mary is the "mother" of this weird family, God being the father, and Jesus being the Son. Clearly, the mocking of the Christians would have been much more effective if it atleast mentioned the Holy Spirit.

    This seems to stem out from the fact that there was a sect that believed in the (God, Mary, Jesus) Trinity according to my research. Ofcourse, it doesn't criticize the mainly held-belief of the Orthodox Catholic Trinity, which is why there is no surprise the Holy Spirit is never mentioned.

    Damn, I may have repeated this point three times (trinity?)
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #46 - February 12, 2013, 06:46 PM
    Quote from: Lluvia on February 12, 2013, 04:53 PM
    When thinking about the concept of that God rationally, it makes no sense and it's self-contradictory. The "most merciful" who punishes human beings just for having come to the wrong answer is not the "most merciful".


    I really love that point lluvia, especially considering the fact that God was the one who made man's nature, which is to make mistakes.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #47 - February 12, 2013, 07:20 PM
    Crunchy Cds, I did come across islamic propaganda which claimed that being Muslim is submitting to God. This is stupid, because in that case we are all Muslims : God mislead whom he will, thus the astray people obey God's will (i.e being mislead). I also agree with what you say, especially the 2nd paragraph. Muslims hate Jews yet their religion is based on Judaism. They say that in Islam a Muslim who kills a man it is like he had killed the whole humanity. They "forget" to mention that this order was given to the children of Israel (coran 5:32), yet Muslims hate Israel... So it's either they're lying (which wouldn't surprise me much, Islam couldn't survive without deception and lies), either they consider themselves as being the children of Israel yet they hate Israel, either they're simply ignorant. Or they, as always, find some kind of justification to say that God didn't mean what is written in the quran and that this order applies to everybody.

    kutta, I noticed the quranic false trinity too. It's funny that God himself doesn't know how Christians transformed his words. Roll Eyes
    Quote
    I really love that point lluvia, especially considering the fact that God was the one who made man's nature, which is to make mistakes.

    Exactly. But according to islamic propaganda our nature is to be a Muslim Huh?
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • I'm an "ex future convert".
     Reply #48 - February 12, 2013, 07:39 PM
    lluvia you make a very good point about submitting. If Islam happens to be right with predestination, are we all not technically submitting to the god regardless. Plus in the quran it also states that birds and nature in submits before God words like salat are used. That pretty much makes everyone/everything Muslim then. I always ask the question is anything able to happen that goes against gods will?. In Islam nothing happens without God having a say, so when Muslims do argue this choice business they really dig a massivve hole.
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