Introduction (+ I need your help)

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- mynameismarwa
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Introduction (+ I need your help)
OP - March 24, 2013, 08:44 PM

Hey mynameismarwa I've decided to leave Islam for the last time! I've left many times previously but I was tormented by the idea of hell so I would force myself to become a Muslim again. But this time I could not lie to myself any longer. I'm too loving and accepting to follow a religion that's so judgmental and morally wrong. It started with me not agreeing with the religion like the hijab (having to cover because men are animals who can't control themselves), fighting people who do not share your beliefs (fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5)), the so-called scientific miracles and Muhammad being the 'perfect' example. When I read the Qur'an for the last time, it no longer felt magical or sent from God, it's just a book full of myths.

But there is still a problem, I'm still tormented by the idea that I'm going to hell because I've left the religion I also feel guilty when I see a convert to Islam or whenever my mum shows me an Islamic scholar on You tube (she doesn't know I've left Islam). I don't understand why I can't appreciate Islam like they do and they seem so sure they're right (It leads to me thinking there is some truth). But I do not want to return to the religion because it was a burden and I felt so restricted.
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Reply #1 - March 24, 2013, 09:18 PM

Hello and welcome here!

The idea of hell is one powerful tool used by many religions, because putting fear in people is a good way to make them submit to whatever ideology. I was never a Muslim, but I almost converted and after I realized Islam is a fraud I did go through a phase where I was tormented by the idea of going to hell...

There are excellent videos on the CEMB youtube channel adressing this issue. Here is one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wyiLR8lTQ8

Also, a member of this forum (I don't remember who) once said that being Muslim isn't really a good protection against "hell", since it only works if Islam is true... I thought that was well said.

If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
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Reply #2 - March 24, 2013, 09:21 PM

Try not to view hell as a literal place that actually exists, think of it more like it actually is, a representation of people's desperate need to believe that no matter how much shit they go through in this life, no matter who wrongs them, or others around them, some form of justice exists after they die, since no form of justice existed in this world for them.

Justice for so many back then involved extreme brutal torture, and so hell has to show itself to have the ultimate in torturous punishment. Doesn't make it a real destination, just the collective barbaric desires of the place and time these descriptions came in to being.

Same for heaven, since if you think about it, of what use are rivers of honey, and endless wine, women and wealth and opulence to people who have ready access to those things in the real world? islamic heaven is for desert people who didn't have water on hand all the time, and who didn't live in comfort.

That idea of heaven, to me, who grew up in the west, sure in the poor bracket, but still I've had honey, water and wine to spare in my life., well it doesn;t move me to say the least and actually seems unbelievably boring when I used to think of it.

Not to mention, being part of a man's possessions even in heaven? it's not a heaven that caters to women. although hell caters exclusively to women since apparently we are all pretty much headed there anyway.

This is why to me, neither concept, hell of heaven, is anything more than the fantasies of a water deprived, honey addicted, and crazy man, and people of days best consigned to history books.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- TheDashingRabbit
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Reply #3 - March 24, 2013, 09:47 PM

Welcome to the forum

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- e-raja
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Reply #4 - March 24, 2013, 09:57 PM

Welcome.

Fear is one of the most basic tools people use to control people. If Islam were so right they wouldn't need the threat of hell to keep people in the faith. The merits/truths of the religion alone should have been enough to keep people interested but as you can see that is not the case.

It will take time for this fear to vanish completely and this happens faster the earlier your mind comes to term with Islam bieng made up. Know that your not alone and most of us at some stage had to overcome this.
- mynameismarwa
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Reply #5 - March 24, 2013, 10:02 PM

Thank you for replying and I found the video really helpful
- kutta
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Reply #6 - March 24, 2013, 10:08 PM

Hello and Hi! Thank you for posting.

You said that when you see your mom's certainty of belief, it makes you feel as if there is truth to Islam. Think about a Christian mother for a second. She would send similar videos, and express the same sort of certainty to you if you were a Christian. This applies to any other religion in fact.

If you deeply think about hell, you will realize why fear is just a tactic to keep your followers within your grasp. Understand this, and you will be free.
- nesrin
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Reply #7 - March 24, 2013, 10:32 PM

hi and welcome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
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Reply #8 - March 24, 2013, 10:43 PM

It sure does help also to find out the origins of the Arabic word for hell, Jahannam which originates from the Hebrew Gehinnom. This is a valley where children were sacrificed for gods, and dead bodies were burned to ashes after their death, a truly 'hell' like scene. It also helps to understand the context as well as justice was infrequent and when enacted back then harsh, and the riches were simple usually food goods as the Arabic empire came out of the harsh bleak deserts. This makes even more sense if the recent questioning gets further backed up to suggest that perhaps Islam originally was a Jewish sect answering the challenge of Christendom with the Roman (Constantinoplean) empire.

Welcome to you btw.
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Reply #9 - March 24, 2013, 10:57 PM

Quote
Not to mention, being part of a man's possessions even in heaven? it's not a heaven that caters to women. although hell caters exclusively to women since apparently we are all pretty much headed there anyway.

Hang on, if all the women have gone to hell, who says the virgins in heaven are female.....

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- BerberElla
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Reply #10 - March 24, 2013, 11:25 PM

the virgins are not normal women who lived and died and earned heaven silly, they are specially designed sex robots with see through skin because bones are the new sex. They have been engineered by Japanese scientists to regrow hymens specifically for your pleasure.

Women are unfortunately not going to be too happy up in heaven, on account of having emotions, or desiring their own kind of reward, and so sex robots are needed and women should be kicked to the kerb.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
- ibn Bilal
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Reply #11 - March 24, 2013, 11:46 PM

Can someone post Hassan's judgment day video here with the wizard of Oz.

Edit: This should help you laugh at the ridiculous idea of going to hell for changing your mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWZpXtDD-9s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEw2RlLvBw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
- David
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Reply #12 - March 24, 2013, 11:55 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on March 24, 2013, 11:25 PM
they are specially designed sex robots... engineered by Japanese scientists to regrow hymens specifically for your pleasure.

Japan's industrial decline in a nutshell.

Farewell Sony and Panasonic. Why make smart phones when robotics offers so many intriguing possibilities?
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Reply #13 - March 25, 2013, 12:21 AM

Quote
That idea of heaven, to me, who grew up in the west, sure in the poor bracket, but still I've had honey, water and wine to spare in my life., well it doesn;t move me to say the least and actually seems unbelievably boring when I used to think of it.

I always wondered why Allah wouldn't put beaches and water parks and dirt bikes and Nintendo games in Jannah. That would make it way cooler IMO.
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Reply #14 - March 25, 2013, 12:33 AM

When you think about it, Allah really has no idea how to throw a party. Honey? Nectar? Ginger? Alcohol-less wine? He sounds like some kinda health food nerd. The only redeeming quality would be the women, but they are see through and I'm sure wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, given that they literally have zero life experience. Jannah would have seriously sucked ass.
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Reply #15 - March 25, 2013, 01:06 AM

Welcome!

Guilt is natural and healthy when your mind is trying to protect you from something. When you start feeling guilty about things that are not under your control (like other converts - I mean people do whatever they want anyway, are you gonna feel guilty over every little thing everyone else does?), then it becomes unhealthy. Read this: http://blogs.psychcentral.com/faith/2012/05/shame-on-you-the-challenge-of-religious-guilt/
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- Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.
- TheDashingRabbit
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Reply #16 - March 25, 2013, 01:17 AM

Quote from: happymurtad on March 25, 2013, 12:33 AM
When you think about it, Allah really has no idea how to throw a party. Honey? Nectar? Ginger? Alcohol-less wine? He sounds like some kinda health food nerd. The only redeeming quality would be the women, but they are see through and I'm sure wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, given that they literally have zero life experience. Jannah would have seriously sucked ass.

The men the Quran was marketed to probably never held meaningful conversations their entire life.

It was supposed to attract uneducated arabian warlords that only liked food and sex.

The quranic description of heaven doesn't appeal to any educated or cultured person.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #17 - March 25, 2013, 02:24 AM

What about those who don't find sex all that interesting, aesthetically pleasing, or appealing? Allah sure knows how to allure depressives, semi-asexuals and asexuals...
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Reply #18 - March 25, 2013, 03:15 AM

Quote from: happymurtad on March 25, 2013, 12:33 AM
When you think about it, Allah really has no idea how to throw a party. Honey? Nectar? Ginger? Alcohol-less wine? He sounds like some kinda health food nerd. The only redeeming quality would be the women, but they are see through and I'm sure wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, given that they literally have zero life experience. Jannah would have seriously sucked ass.

Happymurtad I find it hard to believe you were a scholar once defending this stuff and giving lectures. You've gone full murtad.

I'm suddenly imaging you saying this to your congregation... XD

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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Reply #19 - March 25, 2013, 07:46 AM

Quote
This is a strange place, and extraordinary place, and interesting. There is nothing resembling it at home. The people are all insane, the other animals are all insane, the earth is insane, Nature itself is insane. Man is a marvelous curiosity. When he is at his very very best he is a sort of low grade nickel-plated angel; at is worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm. Yet he blandly and in all sincerity calls himself the "noblest work of God." This is the truth I am telling you. And this is not a new idea with him, he has talked it through all the ages, and believed it. Believed it, and found nobody among all his race to laugh at it.

Moreover -- if I may put another strain upon you -- he thinks he is the Creator's pet. He believes the Creator is proud of him; he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes, and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to Him, and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea? Fills his prayers with crude and bald and florid flatteries of Him, and thinks He sits and purrs over these extravagancies and enjoys them. He prays for help, and favor, and protection, every day; and does it with hopefulness and confidence, too, although no prayer of his has ever been answered. The daily affront, the daily defeat, do not discourage him, he goes on praying just the same. There is something almost fine about this perseverance. I must put one more strain upon you: he thinks he is going to heaven!

He has salaried teachers who tell him that. They also tell him there is a hell, of everlasting fire, and that he will go to it if he doesn't keep the Commandments. What are Commandments? They are a curiosity. I will tell you about them by and by.

http://www.online-literature.com/twain/letters-from-the-earth/2/

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #20 - March 25, 2013, 09:36 AM

If the alternative to hell is being stuck forever with the guy who invented it, then maybe jannah and jahannam aren't so different anyway.
- optimusprime
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Reply #21 - March 25, 2013, 09:54 AM

i just had this realization now - hell is mostly fire, and according to islam the "message" of allah had been passed to every peoples, and adam and eve must've known about hell. but wasn't fire discovered much later? how could adam and eve have known what it felt like to be burned by fire being the first humans? hehe.

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Reply #22 - March 25, 2013, 12:06 PM

Volcanoes!

And it seems we have been using fire for possibly a million years - our jaws are as they are as they have evolved for cooked food!

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/kids/hunting/mass.html

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #23 - March 25, 2013, 03:01 PM

Quote from: TheDarkRebel on March 25, 2013, 01:17 AM

The men the Quran was marketed to probably never held meaningful conversations their entire life.

It was supposed to attract uneducated arabian warlords that only liked food and sex.

The quranic description of heaven doesn't appeal to any educated or cultured person.

This. It's like a cave man's fantasy.
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Reply #24 - March 25, 2013, 03:45 PM

Quote
You've gone full murtad.

Yes. Yes I have.
- mynameismarwa
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Reply #25 - March 25, 2013, 07:45 PM

Thank you so much guys for making me feel welcome and I appreciate all your help
- Xiis
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Reply #26 - March 26, 2013, 09:28 AM

lol @ that video of the wiz is amazing! I remember thinking these things and then feeling guilty about it. Thinking that it was shaytan whispering into my ears *face palm*.

I hope more people get to see it on youtube and really take the time to listen to the message. Its quite funny and sometimes that helps when dealing with issues like religion.

Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
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