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 Topic: Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah

 (Read 8678 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     OP - April 08, 2013, 09:45 PM
    So the whole deal with Islam is you are not supposed to worship anyone or anything else other than Allah.
    YET, when people 'insult Muhammad' not necessarily God, they deserved to be punished severely.
    And everything out of Muslim's mouths is Muhammad this, and Muhammad that, and Muhammad this.
    I hear more things about Muhammad and what he did, rather than the so called message he was suppose to
    pass on from Allah. At that point is Muhammad practically being worshipped as God when he is put on such a high pedestal?

    ALSO when the Quran is mis-handled, it is also a cause for a great distress and unrest.
    When that's being done aren't Muslims putting so much attention on the integrity of an object?
    I thought the words were important not the object which contains them.

    Has this every crossed anyone's minds? Or am I missing something.

     Huh? Huh?
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #1 - April 08, 2013, 09:51 PM
    I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Allah and Muhammad are essentially the same person. It is Edward Norton and Brad Pitt in Fightclub.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #2 - April 08, 2013, 09:52 PM
    I'd say moreso. It seems to be criticism of Mohammed that attracts the most backlash. Muslims have absolutely fetishised the defence of the Prophet's character and reputation.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #3 - April 08, 2013, 09:54 PM
    Muhammad is idol worshipped. We've discussed this before. Not even Buddhists seem to worship Buddha the way Muslims do Mo.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #4 - April 08, 2013, 09:54 PM
    Well Mo is the messenger of Allah, and without Mo, we wouldn't have Allah's message since Allah is too much of a wuss to directly talk to us. So yeah he's pretty important.
    The quran is the book of Allah..it's all linked to Allah but I see where you're coming from. It makes sense when you're in this or that mindset.
    If I met some guy who claims he was talking to god I'd have to take him very seriously I guess.

    @HM, you're saying that in this mindset (I mean the non Muslim one), but if you answer her q from an Islamic perspective?
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #5 - April 08, 2013, 09:55 PM
    Is it like the Trinity?

    Allah and the Holy Spirit really quite vague, Jesus and Mo, Quran and God the Father holy?

    Someone needs to write a creed defining the relationships of Allah, Mo and the Quran!

    Is Mo related to Allah?  Is the Quran eternal from before the creation?

    Quote
    We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all that is, seen and unseen.
    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, light from light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    of one Being with the Father;
    through him all things were made.
    For us and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven,
    was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
    and became truly human.
    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
    he suffered death and was buried.
    On the third day he rose again
    in accordance with the Scriptures;
    he ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
    who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
    who has spoken through the prophets.
    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
    We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look for the resurrection of the dead,
    and the life of the world to come. Amen.


    http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #6 - April 08, 2013, 09:56 PM
    When Muslims say "la ilaha illa'llah, muhammadun rasulu'llah" - isn't this just SHIRK when you think about it?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #7 - April 08, 2013, 09:57 PM
    There is little difference between Muslims and Christians in their starry-eyed devotion to the central figure of their mythology.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #8 - April 08, 2013, 10:10 PM
    “And Obey Allah and his messenger”

    Whoever obeys Allah and his messenger has achieved the greatest achievement”

    “They ask you concerning the spoils of war, say ‘the spoils of war are for Allah and his messenger.’”

    “Verily, those who swore fealty to you, Oh Muhammad, swore fealty to Allah. Allah’s hand was over their hands”

    “And you did not throw, Oh Muhammad, when you threw, but it was Allah who threw.”

    "It is not befitting for a believer, male or female, when Allah and his messenger have decided a matter, that they should have any other preference from their own opinions.”

    The Qur’an goes on and on like this. No Muslim, ever, has seen or heard Allah. He was as silent then as he is now. To the believer then, all they have to go by to understand Allah is Muhammad’s words. That is true both in theory and in practice, apparently and metaphorically. All of the zeal that they feel about “Allah” really derives from the desires of Muhammad. And Muhammad desired to be loved and obeyed. “None of you truly believes until I (Muhammad) and more beloved to him than his father, his son, and all of mankind.” “Nay, by your lord, they shall never believe until they make you the judge in all matters that arise among them, then find no uneasiness in their hearts regarding what you have decreed; rather, they submit with complete submission!”

    Muhammad is the idol. He is the de facto god. The words are his words projected onto the non-existent Allah, and so are the commandments. That is why Muslims revere him the way that they do. They could never say “Muhammad says this, but Allah says that.” Whatever Muhammad says is what “Allah” says; whatever he wants is what “Allah” wants. They essentially become one and the same. And that is exactly what we see today.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #9 - April 08, 2013, 10:12 PM
    The creed of Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal is that the Qur’an is the uncreated word of Allah. The Qur’an is divine in ways that nothing else on earth can be.  It is not part of creation; it is the speech of God.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #10 - April 08, 2013, 10:15 PM
    Ofcourse they don't worship him, nor do they intend to. Just because his importance is exaggerated from a muslim's perspective, it doesn't mean that he is worshipped.

    If that is the practical definition of worship, then so is my obsession for the script  dance
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #11 - April 08, 2013, 10:26 PM
    Quote
    Allah says, 'They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam, while they were commanded to worship none but one God, none has the right to be worshipped but He. Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).' [Soorah at-Tawbah (9):31]

    When Adee Ibn Hatim heard this verse, he said, 'O Messenger of Allah. We didn't worship them.' The Messenger of Allah (sallalalhu alaihi wa-sallam) said, 'Did they not make forbidden what Allah made permissible and you all made it forbidden, and they made permissible what Allah made forbidden and you all made it permissible?' He replied, 'Certainly.' The Prophet of Allah (sallalalhu alaihi wa-sallam) said, 'That is your worship to them.' [At-Tirmidhee (3/247)]

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #12 - April 08, 2013, 10:31 PM
    Quote from: kutta on April 08, 2013, 10:15 PM
    Ofcourse they don't worship him, nor do they intend to. Just because his importance is exaggerated from a muslim's perspective, it doesn't mean that he is worshipped.

    If that is the practical definition of worship, then so is my obsession for the script  dance

    I don't think people ever went on a murderous rampage because someone said The Script are shit. Nor are you likely to be thrown in prison or executed for saying a bad word about Danny in the Republic of Danny's God.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #13 - April 08, 2013, 10:36 PM
    Quote from: kutta on April 08, 2013, 10:15 PM
    Ofcourse they don't worship him, nor do they intend to. Just because his importance is exaggerated from a muslim's perspective, it doesn't mean that he is worshipped.

    If that is the practical definition of worship, then so is my obsession for the script  dance


    He is considered to be insaan al kamil the perfect, flawless human for eternity who must be emulated, his every sunnah followed, and his name cannot be uttered without a blessing being said or else.

    Oh yeah and if you 'disrespect' him you get killed.

    That is worship - especially when as HM notes effectively he is made co-terminous with Allah
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #14 - April 08, 2013, 11:15 PM
    Surat 33 :
    Quote
    57: Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.
    58: And those who harm believing men and believing women for [something] other than what they have earned have certainly born upon themselves a slander and manifest sin.

    So basically Allah can be abused (WTF) and it is as serious to abuse Muhammad than it is to abuse Allah...
    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #15 - April 08, 2013, 11:16 PM
    I'm telling you guys...it's the same person...
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #16 - April 09, 2013, 02:45 AM
    I mean I know these is no logic to religion but, Muhammad was a mortal man who lived and died, rotted in the ground like everyone else. There was nothing special about him other than the claim that he spoke to the angel Gabriel. You would think if Muhammad was Allah himself, he would have some kind of special thing about him.

    Ok this is strictly speaking from a mythological sense, not holding any of this as fact. But if you look up on other prophets, and even in Greek mythology with Gods disguised as humans, they always had some special power about them. Jesus performed miracles, Buddha fasted for what was it, 45-60 days and lived etc. etc.
    What the hell did Muhammad actually do. I guess Muhammad ascending to heaven on a flying horse lady kind of counts, but did Muhammad actually do anything superhuman?
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #17 - April 09, 2013, 05:36 AM
    Great thread Afro

    For Muhammad to be the final prophet -i.e. he will bring the last contact Allah can have with us (- LOL! How powerless does Allah seem) made him pretty special.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #18 - April 09, 2013, 07:57 AM
    @stardust, never saw it that way, and at HM, never read this "“And Obey Allah and his messenger” in this context either jawdrop Well once you see it, you can't unsee it.

    Quote
    What the hell did Muhammad actually do. I guess Muhammad ascending to heaven on a flying horse lady kind of counts, but did Muhammad actually do anything superhuman?


    Umm I think he split the moon but don't quote me on it  grin12

    So...it's been 1400 years since allah last contacted us. Shall we assume he gave up on us?
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #19 - April 09, 2013, 09:00 AM
    No, we gave up on him. That's why Muslims are so keen to make da'wah.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #20 - April 09, 2013, 09:01 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on April 08, 2013, 10:12 PM
    The creed of Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal is that the Qur’an is the uncreated word of Allah. The Qur’an is divine in ways that nothing else on earth can be.  It is not part of creation; it is the speech of God.


    It is a trinity of Allah, Allah's word and uncle Mo.
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #21 - April 09, 2013, 09:05 AM
    Quote
    divine in ways that nothing else on earth can be.


    Isn't the Kaaba divine as well?  I thought it was made of something not found in the universes.

    Umm, how many things do Muslims worship?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #22 - April 09, 2013, 11:57 AM
    The cornerstone of the Kaaba is "the black stone", which according to Mozzie mythology, fell from earth during the time of Adam and was pure white.  All the other stones are "normal" stones.  Now, over time this stone "absorbed" the sins of man and turned black.  The black stone was used in the Kaaba when it was a pagan house of worship and it's supposed "celestial origin" always made me immediately associate it with paganism, but that curious thought seems to bypass most Muslims.   Huh?

    As to how many things do Muslim worship?  LOL.  Talking to most die hard Muslims, these days I would count SELF worship as one of them.  Their idealized, trumped up opinion of their "glorious history" and their "glorious Quran" comes pretty close to worship in my book.   Wink
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #23 - April 09, 2013, 12:00 PM
    Oh, and btw, the Black Stone is encased in a large silver formation on the Kaaba which resembles a huge female genitalia.  Kid you not.  Google it.

    What I always found so funny is that it is considered the highest honor to be able to "kiss" this genitalia sculpture during Hajj.   Cheesy
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #24 - April 09, 2013, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: moi on April 09, 2013, 09:05 AM
    Isn't the Kaaba divine as well?  I thought it was made of something not found in the universes.

    Umm, how many things do Muslims worship?


    The kaaba and even Muhammad are both holy, but they are considered created. The quran, however, is not considered part of creation. It is God's speech and therefore attributed directly to him.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #25 - April 09, 2013, 01:56 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on April 08, 2013, 10:31 PM
    I don't think people ever went on a murderous rampage because someone said The Script are shit. Nor are you likely to be thrown in prison or executed for saying a bad word about Danny in the Republic of Danny's God.


    A higher degree of emotional reaction does not necessarily equal to a higher degree of worship though. From a muslim's perspective, Mohammad is not a deity.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #26 - April 09, 2013, 02:00 PM
    Muslims saying they don't worship Muhammad is like a crackhead saying he doesn't have an addiction.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #27 - April 09, 2013, 02:06 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy

    I know, I know, I completely agree with you. I'm only talking from a muslim's perspective.
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #28 - April 09, 2013, 02:25 PM
    Well we all know Muhammad did NOT split the moon. He should have chosen something that no one would be able to call him out on his BS when humanity evolved to actually be able to go to the moon. (The all knowing one didn't expect kufirs to do actually do that ^_~)  I love the excuse that I think many Muslims have come up with. An elaborate plot by the evil West/Nasa/Everyone else on the face on the earth to cover up evidence that Muhammad split the moon.

    Hmm as for the Kaaba that's kind of strange I don't remember reading about it in the Quran?  Is it in the Quran or is it something later adapted into Islam?

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Question is it just me or is Muhammad worshipped just as much as Allah
     Reply #29 - April 09, 2013, 02:27 PM
    It's in the quran by name.
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