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Theme Changer

 Topic: What is Love?

 (Read 12909 times)
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  • What is Love?
     Reply #30 - November 24, 2013, 05:44 PM

    Oh what's love got to do, got to do with it
     What's love but a second hand emotion
     What's love got to do, got to do with it
     Who needs a heart
     When a heart can be broken


    Lol sorry, I think love is an emotion influenced by a social bond that has developed into an attachment, a need or desire for that attachment to remain. We are social creatures therefore we seek these bonds in each other, to find someone that we have things in common with that reciprocates that feeling and wants to be around you as much as you do around them reinforces it.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • What is Love?
     Reply #31 - November 24, 2013, 05:45 PM

    ^^^^^^

    So basically love is an ego trip?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #32 - November 24, 2013, 05:53 PM

    When it is reciprocated, a little, yea.

    Love its self I  believe is the attachment and the need for that attachment to remain.

    The reinforcement from the reciprocation isn't love itself but just helps the fuzzy feeling.

    Love doesn't necessarily feel nice, but feeling wanted and needed also helps it feel nice.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • What is Love?
     Reply #33 - November 24, 2013, 06:02 PM

    I agree.

    Love arises out a need to feel wanted, to be told you're special, beautiful, worthwhile. It is an attempt to increase the self-esteem and tself actualisation of others in the hope that they reciprocate those feelings in return. It's a symbiotic relationship.

    Combine the emotional egoistic need with the need for certainty (I will always love you) with the need for material comfort (we provide for one another) and sexual release (bow chiki wow wow) and the need for spiritual fulfillment (you give my life meaning) then there you go.

    A recipe for pyaar, ishq aur mohabbat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y1J3hTv5kA

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #34 - November 24, 2013, 07:35 PM

    Eh, Shakespeare isn't for children. You can't understand his work until you've grown up enough to have experienced and grasped what he writes about.


    That is very true.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • What is Love?
     Reply #35 - November 24, 2013, 09:49 PM

    I don't think we have evovled to competently deal with love or a broken heart.

    If only we could do it like mammals like they do on the Discovery Channel. (Nah, there's no fuzzy wuzzy felling with that).

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #36 - November 24, 2013, 10:17 PM

    Love is an incredible survival tool. Note answers 1, 2, 3, 12 and 13.

    Love is our oldest and deadliest impulse.

    Love is the need to protect preserve and maintain at the cost of everything else.

    Love is a psychopath.

    Love is a hormonal chemical reaction.

    Love is transcendent.

    Love is heaven.

    Love is hell.

    Love is transcendent.

    Love is a weakness.

    Love is what makes live worth living.

    Love is hope.

    Love is selfish.

    Love is selflessness.

    And so on.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #37 - November 24, 2013, 10:20 PM

    That's cute and all. Life is pretty meaningless without it.

    But how do you explain suicide etc. The fact is that love is a social construction and not just chemistry or complex bio-algorythms. We have had to find quick fixes to 'love' and 'heartbache'.

    We did not evolve to love.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #38 - November 24, 2013, 10:22 PM

    I just realised that I've never fallen in love
     Cheesy
  • What is Love?
     Reply #39 - November 24, 2013, 10:22 PM

    That's cute and all. Life is pretty meaningless without it.

    But how do you explain suicide etc. The fact is that love is a social construction and not just chemistry or complex bio-algorythms. We have had to find quick fixes to 'love' and 'heartbache'.

    We did not evolve to love.


    Yes we did.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #40 - November 24, 2013, 10:23 PM

    Sure?

    Love is as mysterious as Allah.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #41 - November 24, 2013, 10:24 PM

    Yes we did.


    Love is a by-product of evolution just like religion is.

    It is not necessary for our survival but it does help.

    I suppose you could say we evolved socially to love.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #42 - November 24, 2013, 10:32 PM

    Love is the need to protect your own at the cost of everything. Not especially useful in the western world in 2013, but incredibly beneficial when you have to worry about predators, invaders, child raising, and all that.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #43 - November 24, 2013, 10:34 PM

    That's not love Quod. That's basic survival instincts to keep your possessions safe and ensure that your progeny succeed you.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #44 - November 24, 2013, 10:37 PM

    It's an aspect of love. A very basic and important one, but an aspect nonetheless. Abet one that could easily morph into something unhealthy.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #45 - November 24, 2013, 10:44 PM

    I guess love evolved socially/psychologically out of this need to protect and survive, but it is not it's foundation. We're both right since we're looking at it in different perspectives.

    you're looking at it the wrong way and I the right way.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #46 - November 24, 2013, 11:01 PM

    Not really, I was just replying to your comment on how we didn't evolve to love/handle love.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #47 - November 25, 2013, 06:08 AM

     popcorn

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • What is Love?
     Reply #48 - November 25, 2013, 08:57 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6pnzyfFi9w

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • What is Love?
     Reply #49 - November 25, 2013, 09:40 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKCoJ4KFJg8

    I can think of a number of relationships this song sums up perfectly. Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #50 - November 25, 2013, 09:44 PM

    Good ol Alice Cooper.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • What is Love?
     Reply #51 - November 25, 2013, 10:06 PM

     popcorn

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • What is Love?
     Reply #52 - November 25, 2013, 10:09 PM

    Good ol Alice Cooper.

     Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What is Love?
     Reply #53 - November 26, 2013, 01:54 PM

    So many things. The smell of freshly mowed grass, a good wank on a hot summer day, a freshly passed bowel movement...

    How many words there are to describe such a wondrous experience!

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • What is Love?
     Reply #54 - February 02, 2014, 03:58 PM

    this is not directly answering the question 'what is live', but i think it gives some insight.

    it's an essay i'm working on.


    Love at first sight

    'Love at first sight' is an interesting phenomenon. One thing that’s interesting about it is that some people believe it’s possible to experience it — to have it happen to them — while other people don’t believe that it’s possible. And for the people that do believe it, that is part of the causal chain that causes them to experience it. And for the people that don’t believe that it’s possible, they can’t experience it — it just doesn’t happen to them.

    These people that don’t believe in ‘love at first sight,’ either believed the tradition and then changed their mind, or they never bought into it in the first place because they already had reason to believe that it doesn’t make sense. But most people who don’t believe in ‘love at first sight’ still have basically the same mistake. It’s true that they don’t believe the idea that loving a person at first sight  is possible, but they still think in a way that is consistent with ‘love at first sight’ for other things, like ideas.

    So somebody could realize that loving a person at first sight doesn’t make sense, but he still treats other ideas this way. So he might have an intuition, or gut feeling, and immediately believe it to be true, without checking it for error. This is fundamentally the same as a person who gets a sensation upon the first sight of someone and then interpreting that sensation to mean that he loves that person, all without checking the idea (that he’s in love) for error.

    'Love at first sight,' for a person or for an idea, doesn’t make sense. No matter what sensation one has, that sensation doesn’t mean that the idea is true. Treating the sensation this way is a form of justificationism. It’s a way to give status to an idea in order to ignore criticism of the idea. To be clear, a criticism is an explanation of a flaw in an idea. Now some people think that criticism means personal attacks, but that's not true. A criticism of an idea does not constitute a criticism of the holder of the idea. The holder of the idea can change his mind about the idea. It's not part of his identify. There's no law of nature preventing him from changing it. The idea itself is not something that must stay part of him.

    Justifying an idea by it’s sensation means having no means of finding out that you’re wrong, in the case that you're are actually wrong. It means treating the sensation as an authority. It means treating the sensation as an infallible source of knowledge.  Justificationism doesn’t account for the fact that people are fallible, that all ideas people come up with are subject to error. Love at first sight for a person, is just a special case of the more general error known as justificationism.

    'Love at first sight' is fundamentally the same as getting angry after jumping to conclusions in response to somebody saying something to you. Whatever the intent of the person, you could be wrong about your interpretation of his intent. Your sensation of anger is not justification that your interpretation of his intent is correct. Maybe the person had no malicious intent. Maybe he wanted to help you as opposed to wanting to hurt you. No matter how strong your sensation is, that doesn’t make your interpretation true. Your sensation doesn’t give extra status to your interpretation. You do not have any infallible sources of knowledge. All your ideas are subject to error, even the ones that you get strong sensations about.

    This is about first impressions. If your first impression comes with a strong emotional/intuitional sensation, that doesn’t mean that it’s correct. Your first impression could be wrong. And if you act on your first impression before checking it for error, then you are ignoring that you might be wrong. In the case of love at first sight for an idea, it’s important to check for criticisms of the idea as a means of accounting for the possibility of it being wrong.

    First impressions, like all other ideas, are fallible, so one shouldn’t act on them without first checking for criticism. One type of criticism of a first impression is another explanation that fits the evidence, an explanation that rivals the first impression. It’s a criticism because if both the first impression and the second explanation fit all the existing evidence, then that means both explanations are wrong since neither of them is better than its rival since both of them equally fit the evidence. In order to rule one of them out, you’d have to find another piece of evidence that contradicts one of them but not the other.


    Conventional advice on second-guessing

    Another interesting thing about 'love at first sight,' or rather, the boiled down version of it, 'first impressions,' is that there is conventional knowledge that says that second-guessing yourself is bad. An internet search turns up lots of articles about how to stop second-guessing yourself. This seems to say that acting on an idea while still not being sure about it, is a good idea. But I think this is a misguided way of dealing with uncertainty. It's like saying: Since I can't be certain about my idea, I need a way to act without feeling uncertain. I think this is a bad idea because it's not giving any method for dealing with the uncertainty, and instead it's only giving advice on how to feel in spite of the uncertainty. The problem I see with this is that following this advice means ignoring criticism of the first guess. It means blocking out of your mind that a second guess could be better than your first guess.

    To clarify the issue, let's consider what it means to stop second-guessing in the context of a murder case. The first guess is the accusation that someone committed a murder. Second-guessing means looking for other people that could have committed the murder instead, and looking for other theories like maybe it was a suicide, or maybe it was an accident caused by one or more mistakes made by the accused person and/or other people. Now if the judge followed the conventional advice, then murder cases would always end with the same theory that started the murder case, which would raise the question: Then what's the point of the murder case if you're never going to even consider changing your mind about your first guess?

    My analysis might not be giving the conventional advice a fair analysis. I imagine that the conventional advise about this issue says that you should second-guess a little bit, and then at some point, to stop second-guessing and decide on your best knowledge. But the problem with this conventional knowledge is that it's not clear about how to arrive at an idea that can be considered 'the best knowledge.' Consider the context of a murder case again. The court system is designed so that any conviction can be appealed. This is because we know that we could have been wrong about the conviction. Our best knowledge to date, at the time of the conviction, was good enough to convict, but we know that it's possible that a new piece of evidence, or a new analysis, could change the dynamics of the case such that the the previous theory is now refuted, in favor for a new theory. This shows that our judicial system is designed to account for uncertainty. And this is a way of thinking, an attitude, that individuals can have to.

    So the conventional advice is about how to feel better about possibly being wrong. It doesn't address the underlying issue, that it's ok to be wrong since that's part of the human condition. Being wrong is normal. It's common. The important thing isn't that you're wrong, or that you could be wrong. The important thing is that you change your mind about your idea when you do find out that you're wrong.  And more importantly, finding out that you're wrong shouldn't be seen as a bad thing because it's actually good -- you went from being wrong to being right about that one thing.

    First impressions need second guesses!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #55 - February 02, 2014, 04:09 PM

    I guess love evolved socially/psychologically

    So you mean that love evolved, but not genetically? i agree.

    think about humans from 100,000 years ago and how they think/feel about each other compared to how humans think/feel about love today.

    lots of people today fall in love easily, while some of them don't fall in love easily. what's the thing that causes this difference between them? do you think the difference is genetic? or is it learned?

    i think the answer is that it's learned. and my point is that all the stuff that people learn today, didn't exist 100,000 years ago. people back then didn't read books or watch movies about love (romantic or otherwise). people back then didn't have social pressure to do love things (like valentines day stuff, or doing things for their spouses to "show" love, or doing things for their kids to "prove" that they love them) -- my point here is that some people today act out love stuff because they want social approval from other people who expect them to act out love stuff.
  • What is Love?
     Reply #56 - February 02, 2014, 05:22 PM

    @RR

    Genetically it can be based upon body chemistry etc. Some severely autistic people (it is now the consensus that we are all on the spectrum) can not form basic human relationships let alone 'fall in love'. There are some people who have no empathy or social skills to engage with another individual and this is a consequence of chemical misfirings (neuroscientists/criminologists help! Huh?). Therefore, there is a genetic component viz-a-viz forming empathy skills and social interaction, which is a prerequisite towards falling in love/loving someone.

    i beleive that love is essentially a psychological tool and a social contract. I'd clarify further but believe that the less said on this the better. Given my track record I will abandon the discussion all together.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What is Love?
     Reply #57 - February 02, 2014, 06:34 PM

    Quote from: Jedi
    Genetically it can be based upon body chemistry etc.

    Let's assume, for the moment, that that is true.
    Quote from: Jedi
    Some severely autistic people (it is now the consensus that we are all on the spectrum) can not form basic human relationships let alone 'fall in love'.

    You haven't clarified whether you think autism is genetic or not.

    So, let's assume (for the moment) that autism is NOT genetic, then your argument doesn't make sense because autism is learned, and so the difference in body chemistry that you're referring to is caused by a learned thing, not a genetic thing.

    Instead, let's assume (for the moment) that autism is genetic, then that raises the question... (see below)
    Quote from: Jedi
    There are some people who have no empathy or social skills to engage with another individual and this is a consequence of chemical misfirings (neuroscientists/criminologists help! Huh?). Therefore, there is a genetic component viz-a-viz forming empathy skills and social interaction, which is a prerequisite towards falling in love/loving someone.

    Why are you saying that being autistic is a "mis"-firing of brain stuff? Are you thinking that not making social connections is harmful? Note that lots of people in history did great things WHILE being very asocial/loners/etc -- and to be clear, lots of other "social" humans benefitted greatly from the asocial humans.
  • What is Love?
     Reply #58 - February 02, 2014, 06:35 PM

     
    ......
    think about humans from 100,000 years ago..

    i think the answer is that it's learned. and my point is that all the stuff that people learn today, didn't exist 100,000 years ago. ...........

    what this 100, 000 year number RamiRustom and how did you get there ??  why  go that far?  I say just  100 years of past  is enough to see changes in human behavior  and that goes to Love, empathy, sympathy ..etc..etc..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What is Love?
     Reply #59 - February 02, 2014, 06:37 PM

    i think the answer is that it's learned. and my point is that all the stuff that people learn today, didn't exist 100,000 years ago. people back then didn't read books or watch movies about love (romantic or otherwise). people back then didn't have social pressure to do love things (like valentines day stuff, or doing things for their spouses to "show" love, or doing things for their kids to "prove" that they love them) -- my point here is that some people today act out love stuff because they want social approval from other people who expect them to act out love stuff.

    And yet, throughout documented history, there are grand stories of love. All histories and mythologies that I can think of have it written in them as one of their most prominent and captivating themes. I think instead the answer is that art imitates life, and the themes we see in books and movies are just the younger iterations of what we would hear by the firesides of our ancient ancestors.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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