Islamophobia?

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Islamophobia?
OP - December 14, 2013, 09:33 AM

Does anybody else get as miffed off with this word as I do?

I've had to sit through lectures, and seminars about this topic as part of my race and representation module, and not one part of the lecture or seminars, even touched on the fact that the word gets thrown around too often, over the most minor disagreement.

You don't like the way women get treated in most muslim countries? you have Islamophobia.

Don't like the way they treat homosexuals? dude, you have Islamophobia.

Think sharia law is barbaric? yep, you have Islamophobia.

The only way to avoid catching this disease, is to respect every aspect of Islam, and don't challenge any part of it.

I don't fucking think so.

Also, since it was a topic, way too many never been muslims decided to do their presentations on the topic, again, zero fucking analysis, just restating everything the lecturer had. All nice and PC, and very student retarded.

Also, every single muslim female in the class, I kid you not, chose to do a presentation on the Hijab, or the difference between extremism or real Islam.

Funniest moment may have been when some girl was told she had to do a presentation on the origins of humanity, and gave a presentation on the Islamic version of Adam and Eve, along with religious references all confirming that not one scientist has been able to prove that we evolved any other way.

Within all the boundaries of respect I could maintain, I think I still may have pissed a whole bunch of people off, including my PC lecturer, because I can't stomach hearing this crap.

Fuck Islamophobia, fuck allowing students to give pathetic dawah presentations.

Also fuck most of my class mates, for swallowing that crap.

I'm so sick and tired of being diagnosed with Islamophobia, just because I won't practice cultural relativity.

Rant over.....feel free to join in if you have been diagnosed with it too.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Reply #1 - December 14, 2013, 10:03 AM

What did you tell them? I would have loved to sit at the back of the class and hear your rebuttal!

It definitely gets thrown around by those who don't want any sort of meaningful debate or critical analysis of sensitive issues in their communities.
Good on you for voicing your opinion and well done for pissing people off. It means you stood up for your principles.
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Reply #2 - December 14, 2013, 10:10 AM

I have been called islamophobic for pointing out hadiths and quranic verses and having a knowledge of where said verses were magically revealed - by (western secular educated) Muslims and people (Centrum-Left) who have taken upon themselves to defend Muslims and Islam against the (disgusting, I might add) media barrage which sometimes lambast our Muslim citizens. I have been blocked by several and tossed out of a few debating fora on Facebook, but I have also been added by a few Muslims. Apparently many are intrigued that I have some knowledge of Islam, ethnicities and history beside the usual hate speech against Muslims in general.

Pointing out that the scripture repeatedly calls for apostates to be killed must mean that I, as a left-wing anti-authorian sceptic, apparently am "Islamophobic".

Oh, and it is technically not a phobia if Islam actually wants you dead

To the defense of most of the debate here people tend to avoid the term "Islamophobic" as most aren't comfortable using such definite words unless they try to martyr themselves ("I pointed out X and they called me an 'Islamophobic' - I'm being repressed!") - wait - didn't I just do that?

I guess the difference is that I have absolutely nothing against Muslims in general.

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Reply #3 - December 14, 2013, 10:31 AM

Quote
Also, since it was a topic, way too many never been muslims decided to do their presentations on the topic, again, zero fucking analysis, just restating everything the lecturer had. All nice and PC, and very student retarded.

Its people like this that ticks me off most like as if they are trying to score some cookies from muslims or need a pat for tolerating their bullshit when at the end as long as they haven't utter shahada, they are still kaffir.

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Reply #4 - December 14, 2013, 11:26 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on December 14, 2013, 09:33 AM

You don't like the way women get treated in most muslim countries? you have Islamophobia.

Don't like the way they treat homosexuals? dude, you have Islamophobia.

Think sharia law is barbaric? yep, you have Islamophobia.

.......disease....:banghead..........fucking ............ zero fucking ........ retarded.

I can't stomach hearing this crap.

Fuck....fuck ....dawah ....

Jewess.... Kafira..
Quote
Also fuck most of my class mates

Huh! only class mates?? I thought you do that to every one who makes you bit angry..

Quote from: Cato on December 14, 2013, 10:31 AM
Its people like this that ticks me off most like as if they are trying to score some cookies from muslims or need a pat for tolerating their bullshit when at the end as long as they haven't utter shahada, they are still kaffir.

Hmm Cato writes a Prophetic statement ... well no escape., so....... me take Shahada...........

" La ilaha Catodur Rasulullah" .. not always but some times..

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Reply #5 - December 14, 2013, 12:54 PM

THANK YOU BerberElla, I have thought this for such a long time too.

Criticisms that are; rational (irrational fears are phobias), factual (must back up your accusations with some relevant, preferably up-to-date evidence) and equally applied (half the rubbish in one Abrahamic holy book can easily be found in another) must be respected. We must enable the truth to come to light and help to be purveyors of obvious truths, like Adam and Eve making their children have a mass orgy of incestuous sex does not form a credible position on how humans came to be. That is an obvious fact which must be repeated regardless of offense. It was actually Irshad Manji, the liberal Muslim, who said the price of diversity is offense, which I agree with because the key to failure is pleasing everyone. We can't all parrot one another just for the sake of keeping 'harmony'.

Anything that was like "ZOMG, all mUolsems are sooo evilz!!111!!" would obviously fit into the Islamophobia category (as well as the poor grammar one ) but most people should be careful when using this term as there are too many Muslims who use it to silence others, whether that be their direct intention or not I don't know. Then there are too many non-Muslims who use it to also silence others but in a way that perhaps reflects their own insecurities? Does that make sense? It's like "I'll shut up others as I might end up hearing something I agree with". Ideological and Religious extremists tend to do the same.

As someone who takes a general egalitarian and secular minded stance on a number of important issues, we can evidently see that virtually no religion actually guarantees that 100% (some may go part-way there), whether it be Abrahamic, Indian or Eastern Asian (Taoic) religions, they are not there to be egalitarian or secular, as some of these have not even been in existence that long. I am free to bash them all till it gets to Islam (and sometimes Judaism I suppose). This is a hypocritical stance to take and not one I'd agree with at all.
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Reply #6 - December 14, 2013, 01:34 PM

I agree with everything Berbs said. I have a habit of being able to rationalise my arguments and make a point of saying this and this bother me but I make a point of not hitting below the belt (usually).

The evolution thing fucking pisses me off. Why not challenge something you know to be blatantly wrong? As for the hijab, if they did one of those presentations where women who don't wear it are dirty, I would not be able to keep silent. The homophobia, racism, xenophobia and misogyny so many sprout is sickening.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #7 - December 14, 2013, 02:03 PM

Berbs, don't even get me started on this subject. It really is sinister how it operates as a silencing and blasphemy taboo in our society.

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Reply #8 - December 14, 2013, 05:04 PM

Read somewhere that Islamophobia was invented by Muslim Brotherhood quite recently - anyone know anything else about this?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

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Reply #9 - December 14, 2013, 05:05 PM

Back in the 90s.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #10 - December 14, 2013, 05:06 PM

Why where who? Kinda takes the sting out of stuff if it is put in some context!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #11 - December 14, 2013, 05:21 PM

Well that's really all I know about the origins of the term. The muslim brotherhood pushed it in the 90s, or at least the 90s was when it became a used term.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #12 - December 14, 2013, 08:24 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on December 14, 2013, 09:33 AM
Funniest moment may have been when some girl was told she had to do a presentation on the origins of humanity, and gave a presentation on the Islamic version of Adam and Eve, along with religious references all confirming that not one scientist has been able to prove that we evolved any other way.

I trust she will fail her module.

If not, contact Universities UK and complain about falling standards in institutions of higher education.

Quote from: BerberKilla
Rant over.....

Been missing your rants.
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Reply #13 - December 14, 2013, 08:31 PM

Me to, when I joined Berbs' posts were quite common. I liked her. I want her back.

So out of curiosity what type of class was it where someone thought it right to quote islam and lie about evolution? Please tell me it was creative writing and not biology.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #14 - December 15, 2013, 12:26 AM

Was the hijab presentation like this?
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Reply #15 - December 15, 2013, 01:42 AM

I see that shit all that pops out is islam degrading other human beings.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #16 - December 15, 2013, 02:24 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on December 14, 2013, 09:33 AM
Does anybody else get as miffed off with this word as I do?

I've had to sit through lectures, and seminars about this topic as part of my race and representation module, and not one part of the lecture or seminars, even touched on the fact that the word gets thrown around too often, over the most minor disagreement.

You don't like the way women get treated in most muslim countries? you have Islamophobia.

Don't like the way they treat homosexuals? dude, you have Islamophobia.

Think sharia law is barbaric? yep, you have Islamophobia.

The only way to avoid catching this disease, is to respect every aspect of Islam, and don't challenge any part of it.

I don't fucking think so.

Also, since it was a topic, way too many never been muslims decided to do their presentations on the topic, again, zero fucking analysis, just restating everything the lecturer had. All nice and PC, and very student retarded.

Also, every single muslim female in the class, I kid you not, chose to do a presentation on the Hijab, or the difference between extremism or real Islam.

Funniest moment may have been when some girl was told she had to do a presentation on the origins of humanity, and gave a presentation on the Islamic version of Adam and Eve, along with religious references all confirming that not one scientist has been able to prove that we evolved any other way.

Within all the boundaries of respect I could maintain, I think I still may have pissed a whole bunch of people off, including my PC lecturer, because I can't stomach hearing this crap.

Fuck Islamophobia, fuck allowing students to give pathetic dawah presentations.

Also fuck most of my class mates, for swallowing that crap.

I'm so sick and tired of being diagnosed with Islamophobia, just because I won't practice cultural relativity.

Rant over.....feel free to join in if you have been diagnosed with it too.

I am tired of seeing it, too. There is too much walking on eggshells over it, especially in the media here. I am sorry this is so prevalent in your educational institution.

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Reply #17 - December 15, 2013, 03:33 AM

If I was there I would've spoken out tbh. Sometimes I can't handle being silent while others force that info down my throat. Sure, I may get criticized, but I would do it.
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Reply #18 - December 15, 2013, 12:42 PM

It's basically the race card. Or a get out of owning your shit free card.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #19 - December 15, 2013, 01:15 PM

Quote from: Ishina on December 15, 2013, 12:42 PM
It's basically the race card. Or a get out of owning your shit free card.

Yes we do use the race card., To defend allah and her messages and her messengers we will use every card that we have in our hand. Race card, freedom of expression card, marriage card, apostasy card, blasphemy card and any other /every card to win Momins for Islam. We have the rights to use those cards in Democracy. . But once you are a Muslim, we will take away some of your cards..

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Reply #20 - December 15, 2013, 02:12 PM

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #21 - November 05, 2014, 04:29 PM

Quote from: moi on December 14, 2013, 05:04 PM
Read somewhere that Islamophobia was invented by Muslim Brotherhood quite recently - anyone know anything else about this?

Not true apparently - see this article by Brian Whitaker: http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2014/november/islamophobia-and-the-extreme-right.htm#sthash.ALPZFJ8p.oUhfPgrG.dpbs

Which side are you on?
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Reply #22 - November 05, 2014, 05:13 PM

Somewhat related!

Quote
Why I don’t believe people who say they loathe Islam but not Muslims

It is a trope among people who loathe and fear Islam that their fear and loathing has nothing in common with racism because Islam is not a race, the implication being that hating Muslims is rational and wise whereas hating black people is deeply irrational and stupid.

Some people who claim that Islam is profoundly evil will also say that they bear Muslims no ill will but I don’t think they are telling the truth. It is really difficult and indeed psychologically unnatural to claim that you hate an ideology without hating the people in whose lives it is expressed. Religions, nations, and even races are all shared imaginative constructs (although nations and races have other characteristics as well) and if you really want to extirpate them, you must extirpate the people who imagine them as well.

I remember George W Bush explaining that we were not going to war with the Iraqi people, but with the Iraqi government. Since then, something like a million of the Iraqi people have died as a result of our not going to war with them. The distinction is no doubt a great comfort to their surviving relatives but it’s not very useful for predictive purposes.

Racial and religious hatreds have one thing in common: they are not inspired by the race or religion of the hater, but by the religion or race of the victim. This is clearest in the case of antisemitism, which can appear as either a racial or a religious hatred, or indeed both. What’s constant is that it involves hating Jewish people, whatever the reasons given. Similarly, if you hate black people, you hate them on racist grounds whatever the colour of your own skin, and if you hate Muslims, Catholics, Quakers or Mormons, you hate them for their religion – whatever your own beliefs. So it is perfectly possible for religious hatred to be motivated by atheism and it may be quite common in the modern world.

The claim that Islam isn’t a race and so it is entirely rational to hate and fear it gains its moral force from the implicit claim that there is something uniquely horrible about racial hatred. I don’t think there is, though I see why we assume it: 50 or 60 years ago racial prejudice was an entirely natural part of English life. In order to change that, it was necessary to mark it as a uniquely dreadful and disfiguring condition: racism became a kind of moral leprosy. Without in any way wishing to roll back that progress, it’s worth noting that in other societies and at other times racial prejudice has not been the most urgent incitement to communal hatred.

But if we allow that the crimes of Stalin, or of Mao, were comparable to those of the transatlantic slave trade in ambition if not in duration, they are not excused in the slightest by saying that the most terrible atheist dictators were not very racist at all.

Stalin and Mao would have enthusiastically endorsed Sam Harris when he wrote that “there are some beliefs so terrible that we are justified in killing people just for holding them”, just as they would have endorsed his defence of torturing prisoners.

In the end, the position of people who claim that hatred of Islam is somehow superior to hatred of black people is pretty much like Alan Partridge boasting that at least he’s not David Brent

Uhhh, it is so so so infuriating. Do all Labour members hate Conservatives cause they hate the conservative ideology? Do all Marxists hate all Businessmen cause they have the power? Gahh!
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Reply #23 - November 05, 2014, 05:38 PM

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24344.msg783688#msg783688

My thoughts on the silly term
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Reply #24 - March 16, 2015, 07:00 PM

Bringing back this thread to ask a question.

Is this comment on a Telegraph article right?

Quote
lionsingh • 2 hours ago

Many immigrant groups have settled in the UK and have integrated and done well with some of their customs being adopted by the UK . However seems to be one religious group that refuses to and all we get is bang,bang then blame.

No one seems to suffer from Sikhophobia, Bhuddistohobia, Hinduophobia , Rastamanvibrationophobia etc .

The term “Islamophobia” was invented and promoted in the early 1990s by the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), a front group of the Muslim Brotherhood. Former IIIT member Abdur-Rahman Muhammad -- who was with that organization when the word was formally created, and who has since rejected IIIT's ideology -- now reveals the original intent behind the concept of Islamophobia: “This loathsome term is nothing more than a thought-terminating cliche conceived in the bowels of Muslim think tanks for the purpose of beating down critics.” In short, in its very origins, “Islamophobia” was a term designed as a weapon to advance a totalitarian cause by stigmatizing critics and silencing them.

SO am a racist ?

Islam the only religion that murders you then complains you had a phobia against it ;-(

Also can this thread be merged with the following threads to streamline things?

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24344.0

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=25977.0
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Reply #25 - March 16, 2015, 08:09 PM

Can anyone explain what Islamophobia really means?

I genuinely think the term is designed to shut up those who speak up against Islam. That I think everyone agrees on. Further, it has two rather cynical and dangerous innuendos. One is that by calling phobia or dislike or hatred towards Muslims Islamophobia, one actually obscures the difference between Muslims and Islam. In other words, the term suggests that hating the ideas of Islam neccesitates hating those who follow them, and vice versa. Second, the term has also been given some of the attributes previously reserved for race hatred, as though Muslims now was all part of one big race.

What I don't get is that there are people, Muslims of course but also most Leftists, who use this term honestly (not to shut others up, but because they really feel like they've been exposed to hatred). So what the fuck do they think it means? Do Muslims really think that by condemning Islam's dislike of women, for example, I personally hate the Muslim I'm telling this to? Or that I resent his or her race?

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Reply #26 - March 16, 2015, 08:31 PM

I'd prefer they used the term Muslimphobia!
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Reply #27 - March 16, 2015, 08:43 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on March 16, 2015, 08:31 PM
I'd prefer they used the term Muslimphobia!

yes..yes that is the word.. that is the right word to be used.,

I often use that word. And.. and every one must(MUST) fight at every step those phobias about people who happened to be different faith different color different language for no fault of theirs...

Fools and bums that roam around in towns as Islamic intellectuals and preach Islam must learn the difference between Islamophobia and Muslim Phobia .. And and I will give them MY FULL SUPPORT to fight Muslim Phobia..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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Reply #28 - March 17, 2015, 12:22 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on March 16, 2015, 08:43 PM
yes..yes that is the word.. that is the right word to be used.,

I often use that word. And.. and every one must(MUST) fight at every step those phobias about people who happened to be different faith different color different language for no fault of theirs...

Fools and bums that roam around in towns as Islamic intellectuals and preach Islam must learn the difference between Islamophobia and Muslim Phobia .. And and I will give them MY FULL SUPPORT to fight Muslim Phobia..

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
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Reply #29 - March 17, 2015, 01:11 AM

I agree with you that the term is an attempt to silence criticism, but I am perfectly willing to call myself an Islamophobe. I fear and despise any religion that oppresses and demeans women, threatens physical violence against apostates and critics, and wages endless war against others and itself. And I feel great sympathy towards the people who are most victimized by the worst of these religions today: Muslims who just want to enjoy their lives in peace and freedom.

That’s what led me to join this forum under my own real name (Ed Suominen). You guys have my respect and admiration. You are the most courageous of all religious apostates. Leaving Islam does not just cost you your social network and some angst about the afterlife, as leaving fundamentalist Christianity did to me. In many parts of the world, it also incurs a very real danger. And cultural markers imposed on you (e.g., the hijab or a long beard) identify you in society as a Muslim, which I’d imagine make it harder to try out life as an unbeliever.

I’m not sure how active I will be here, or even how appropriate it would be for a never-Muslim to chime in about stuff I have no knowledge of. But please lift up your heads and know how inspiring and important you are in containing the insidious spread of a religion that all of us have very good reasons to fear.

—A proud Islamophobe. (Also a smallpoxophobe, atomicbombophobe, and tornadophobe.)
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