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Reply #180 - August 07, 2014, 10:16 AM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 08:58 AM
Getting to the state of todays 'Western' world. Above seems like a accurate foretelling of the decline of virtue in the west and generally poor standard of art, music, literature that is produced these days.

So much of our culture today is driven by a desire for freedom from traditional values, without understanding the greatness intertwined with those values.

The answer is obvious: invent a time machine, and transport yourself back to this golden age of the West.

Make it a one-way trip, and you can live amongst such exalted company for the rest of your days. Result.

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Reply #181 - August 07, 2014, 10:29 AM

^^ Clearly not everyone will be interested what is being discussed here. For those that want to understand the current state of ' Western' civilaztion and the values that got it there this could be useful.
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Reply #182 - August 07, 2014, 11:35 AM

Useful? All you have done is regurgitated words that aren't your own, filled in various blanks with banalities about 'values' and 'art', and apparently expected us to be awed by such self-evident wisdom. This clearly hasn't happened, your repeated 'one last clarifying post' promises notwithstanding.

Get to the point or stop wasting your own time.

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Reply #183 - August 07, 2014, 12:04 PM

+ 1 toor

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Reply #184 - August 07, 2014, 12:06 PM

Tbh honest I dont really have 'a point'. Originaly there was a point which was to compare IE religion with the Abrahamic ones. But then it went off track and now I am just taking parts of an existing narrative that I find interesting in the hope that it might inspire some interesting discussion.
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Reply #185 - August 07, 2014, 12:07 PM

Anyway the last one is almost ready
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Reply #186 - August 07, 2014, 12:35 PM

FREEDOM PART 1

QUINTUS Horatius Flaccus has described the task of all art, especially of poetry, as being to create “nothing small and in a low manner” . Yet the most popular literature of the free West, and the culture of mass media, today emphasises the unimportant sexual experiences of unbridled men, often in a degrading and unclean manner, and this is described by many newspaper critics as “art”.

The best examples of pure sexual experience, as accomplished in the nil parvum aut humili modo of Horace, may be found in the truly Indo-European Homer. According to C. F. von Nägelsbach (Homerische Theologie, third edition, edited by G. Authenrieth, 1884, p. 229) Homer always represented sensuality without lust and without prudery and never enticingly and seductively or with sensual excitement in mind; he was one of the most innocent poets of all ages and even in describing sexual scenes, he never used a word which exceeded artistic requirements. This is yet another example of how the Indo-European linked freedom with dignity

For a world culture such as progressives seek to construct, an elevation of the spirit above and beyond the entertainment needs of the masses is no longer to be hoped for, since what Europeans and North Americans have to offer today to the “undeveloped” peoples is nothing more than the spiritually vacuous “culture” of a welfare state governed by a hundred soulless authorities.

In such societies the Press, literature, radio, television and films and other media provide the masses with a controlled “tensioning” and “de-tensioning” by alternately playing up this or that belief or unbelief. With the further extinction of families capable of spiritual independence, and the further disappearance of talents, no alternative to the disappearance of the last remaining elements of the Indo-European culture can be expected.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), one of the founders of the free state of Virginia, author of the Declaration of Independence (1776) sought to see his people as a nation of yeomen and distrusted trade and the upcoming industry of the cities, which he regarded as foes of freedom. Jefferson sought to protect the freedom and dignity of the individual man from the state, to which he therefore wished to allow only a minimum of power.

But after the agricultural era, the urbanisation and industrialisation of the industrial era brought into being the city masses whose need for security became greater than their real or pretended urge to freedom. Security against (in the Indo-European sense) destiny — cowardly security against all difficult situations of life — can only be achieved in a state based upon bureaucracy, a state which is therefore, of necessity, inhuman.

With the twentieth century, more and more countries, including the once so free English, and now in their wake, North America, have become “socialised”, bureaucratic welfare states, whose masses, encumbered by thousands of officials and organisations, have begun to forget freedom and dignity through the de-tensioning offered them. With the loss of freedom and dignity in political and social life, how is the preservation of traditional spiritual values possible?

Count Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) wrote a warm-hearted and richly informative description of the North American free state, in which he also warned of the dangers facing democracies which fell under the domination of the spirit of the masses. He feared that the rise of an era of the masses, with state capitalism and state-controlled enterprise, would pervert the democracies into repressing the freedom of the individual man of dignity — to him the highest human good — so that democracy would lead to a suppression of freedom in the Indo-European sense, the freedom still demanded by Jefferson and by Wilhelm von Humboldt.

The last men who — without investigating its origins — defended Indo-European freedom, namely the democracy of the free and mutually-equal land-owning family fathers, were the English philosophers John Stuart Mill and Herbert Spencer. J. S. Mill wrote a book On Liberty in 1859. With almost incomprehensible far-sightedness Mill recognised the threat to the dignity and freedom of independent and self-reliant individual thinking men which was embodied in the “freedom” of the masses gathering in the cities. Mill feared the tyranny of the majorities in the popular assemblies, the repression of those capable of judgment by the mass of alternating public opinions. He feared the Chinese ideal of the sameness of all men and saw — like Goethe in his tragedy Die natürliche Tochter (I, 5) — that all contemporary political trends were aiming to reshape the era by raising the depths, and debasing the heights. When men had been made “equal” by law, every deviation from this uniformity would be condemned as wicked, immoral, monstrous and unnatural.

To John Stuart Mill the freedom of the individual was the highest good. He started with the viewpoint of Adam Smith and David Ricardo and inclined to socialism, but feared that the abuse of freedom by parties and majorities would lead to the rule of the masses, to the end of competition and to the abolition of individual possessions, which would favour the stupid and lazy, but rob the clever and industrious.

Herbert Spencer wrote his Principles of Sociology in 1896. Socialism he said, would appear in every industrial society and would repress every freedom; socialism itself would become only another form of subjection, simply another form of the bureaucratic regime, and thus [uit would become the greatest misfortune that the world had ever experienced; no one might ever again do what he pleased, each would have to do what he was ordered to do. A total and absolute loss of freedom would result. Herbert Spencer might have added that only a minority of men capable of independent thought would regret the loss of freedom in a bureaucratic, patronising state, while the solid majority would prefer state care to freedom, being unable to understand the freedom of Jefferson or Wilhelm von Humboldt, or Mill or Spencer.

Herbert Spencer the Liberal summarised how socialism — when it finally penetrated all parties — would repress the freedom of the individual to voice independent judgment; through a flood of laws there would arise, supported by the blind faith of the socialist masses in enactments, and in government machinery, a stupid and ponderous bureaucratic state; the state would discourage its citizens from helping themselves, and no one would be permitted to withdraw from the national institutions, as they may from private ones, when they broke down or became too costly; the blind belief in officialdom, above all in the Fascist and National Socialist form, has given rise, as Spencer feared, to a blind faith in government, to a political fetichism. But wherever socialist governments have been able to rule uncontested for decades, officialdom, state control and state fetichism have set in, and with them a further repression of the freedom of the individual, of that freedom emanating from the spirit of the land-owning family heads, equal among one another, with which Spencer and the liberals of his day were concerned — even though they did not realise that the roots of this freedom were historically Indo-European.

Eduard Meyer (Geschichte des Altertums, Vol. I, 2, 1909, p. 777) has alluded to the individualism and self-determination which characterises the Indo-Europeans, to the individuality of the self-determining man, hostile to every kind of leadership, even to the extent of frequently proving a danger to his own nation or state.

Such an outlook is expressed in the motto, valid earlier in Germany, Selbst ist der Mann — Rely on yourself — and this outlook refuses charity from every other, even from the state. It corresponds to a truly Indo-European remark of the Emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (Observations, III, 5): “You shall stand upright, and not be supported by others!” In the Agamemnon (755) of Aeschylus, the king of the Hellenic army, first among equals, expresses the view that he has his own convictions, apart from those of his people. With Sophocles (Aias, 481) the Chorus confirms to Aias, who has freely chosen death, that he never spoke a word which did not proceed directly from his own nature.
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Reply #187 - August 07, 2014, 12:37 PM

FREEDOM PART 2

Indo-European spiritual freedom and human dignity have been represented with the utmost beauty by the classical art of the Hellenes and this spirit speaks with irrepressible vigour and clarity from the sculptures which represent Hellenic thinkers and poets (K. Schefeld: Die Bildnisse der antiken Dichter, Redner und Denker, 1943) — sculptures which could not have been created had not the artists themselves been conscious of this freedom and dignity.

A great part of the present day, highly-praised “art of the free West”, expresses in word and image a disgust, often even a disgust with the “artist” himself, and it is obvious that as such, it no longer belongs to the spirit of the West. Writers, painters, sculptors and designers depict — after their own image creatures which fall far short of the nobility of man, ranking culturally with lemurs — “semi-natures” pieced together from ligaments, sinews and bones (Goethe: Faust, II, Act 5, Great Courtyard of Palace), “semi-natures” whose microcephaly or even headlessness, seem to symbolise the rejection of reason, logos, ratio by the “artists” of the present era. As for present day lyrics, Hugo Friedrich (Die Struktur der modernen Lyrik, 1961) has made a most penetrating anaylsis of them from Baudelaire to the present day and delineates a downward trend in lyricism which reflects the decline of the West, even though he does not attempt to evaluate the artistic level of modern lyricism or discuss the question whether it may in fact still be regarded as Western.

The decline of human dignity and freedom through socialism, which would demand as much state power as possible was also feared by Friedrich Nietzsche, who, like Jefferson and Wilhelm von Humboldt, recommended as little of the State as possible, and finally called the state the coldest of all cold monsters (Also sprach Zarathustra: Von neuen Götzen). Today such an opinion would incur disciplinary action against its author — not only in eastern European states. Socialism, according to Nietzsche (Taschenausgabe, Bd. III, pp. 350-351), coveted “a fullness of state power such as only despotism had enjoyed indeed it surpassed all the past because it strove for the formal annihilation of the individual.” From a World State or a World Republic, which today is regarded by “progressive” believers as the desired goal of humanity, Nietzsche expected nothing other than the final disappearance of all remnants of freedom and human dignity: “Once the earth is brought under all-embracing economic control, then mankind will find it has been reduced to machinery in its service, as a monstrous clockwork system of ever smaller, more finely adjusted wheels.”

Le Bon was afraid that the masses would readily accept every subjection under strong-willed leaders, and dissolve the age-old cultures of Europe, and that in their delusion that freedom and equality could be achieved by ever-increasing legislation, they would legally whittle it away.

The masses expected not so much freedom, which they were not really striving after, as equal subjection for all. The Socialism of our time (1895) would have the effect of state absolutism, especially as the socialism of the masses would appear as a new religion and would compel uniformity. Later the state would become almighty God. The freedom of independently thinking men becomes more and more restricted in the era of the legally “liberated” masses, departmental orders and public opinion.

The abuse of the freedom of rural communities by hybrid city masses was responsible for decay in Hellas as well as in Rome. For Plato, freedom was the dignified independence of the noble man. In his work The State,he criticised freedom as a slogan for city masses; an excess of such freedom would hand over the state as well as the individual to an excess of slavery. To a man of dignified freedom the guiding factor is merely truth (Plato: Theaitetos, 172-173).

In this way freedom vanished towards the end of the aristocratic Roman republic, with the extinction of the freeborn (ingenui); under the Emperors the freedom of the freedman (liberti), which was nothing less than self-restraint, started in the capital and spread to all the cities of the Empire. The wiseman — Cicero once wrote (de legibus, I, 61) — holds that what the masses praise so highly is worth nothing. The behaviour of the freedmen in flattering the Emperors has been described with contempt by Petronius, who originated from a family of the nobilitas, in his Cena Trimalchionis. The literature of the “free West” celebrated and praised by the reviewers and critics of today’s newspapers, would probably be regarded by Petronius as a literature of freedmen for freedmen. In particular it is just those authors who are most praised today who promote with boring repetition nothing less than the further decomposition of the spiritual and moral values. After the ending of colonial rule it must be feared that the populations of wide regions of the earth will behave as freedmen, all the more so as colonial rule has destroyed what remains of the ancient ethical and social orders of these populations; in other words, they will imitate large sections of the youth of “cultured peoples”.

After every constitutional alteration and every upheaval since the middle of the nineteenth century, the peoples of the west have lost more of the freedom of the individual, and have had to bear instead more subjection, more of “the insolence of office” (Shakespeare: Hamlet, III, 1). As a result there has been a gradual but powerful growth of authoritarianism in both the state and political parties, and in the influence, exercised either openly or in secret of moneyed people behind them. (Juice!)

It is unfortunately true that amongst the peoples of the west, the number of men who prefer freedom to a high standard of living has become very small, and that men who do not, suffer from increasing patronisation. In his Jugenderinnerungen (Memories of Youth, p. 312) Paul Ernst wrote that his father had always been a free man despite his poverty, and his mother a dignified woman, as befitted the wife of such a man.

Walter Muschg, Professor of Basle University, in an address on the occasion of the Schiller celebrations, entitled Schiller: The Tragedy of Freedom (1959), emphasised that freedom had “not only vanished under dictatorships, but also in the so-called free countries. Everywhere new power factors had formed which controlled the existence of men and had produced invisible forms of slavery, before which our liberal forefathers would have shuddered. . . . Present day man no longer knows what freedom is and furthermore he no longer desires it. He wishes for comfort, for an effortless enjoyment of life at the price of bureaucratic control for which he willingly pays. The will to freedom has been succeeded by the longing for domination, for release from self determination. From this longing . . . arise both open and veiled forms of dictatorship.”

Such a decline effected through the increasing control of man by the State, will not be felt by the masses, who demand security, but will be completed through the further extinction of independant families.

Socrates once walked round the market in Athens, looking at the quantity of goods on display, the luxury articles indicative of the high standard of living of the Athenians — who were otherwise spiritually impoverished — and he turned to his friends and said: “How many things there are, which I can do without!”

The products of the mass media of our age, which will soon be brought within reach of the remotest peoples on earth, at the cost of distorting and replacing their native cultures by the spiritually-destructive technology known as “world culture” will be renounced by the last truely noble people in just the same way as Socrates renounced the wares displayed for sale in the market place at Athens.
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Reply #188 - August 07, 2014, 01:11 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 12:37 PM
The products of the mass media... spiritually-destructive technology known as “world culture” will be renounced by the last truely noble people

Here are some of "the last truely (sic) noble people", rejecting this pernicious and insidious evil that those of lesser-birth seek to enforce on us all through the media, technology and economics and we all know who's behind all that, now, don't we eh?.
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Reply #189 - August 07, 2014, 01:28 PM

This is exaclty what the guy is talking about. You deliberately removed part of that quote so you can apply the concept of 'racism' to shut me up. Trying to limit my freedom of expression with lowly tactics is obviously not the act of one of noble mind.
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Reply #190 - August 07, 2014, 01:36 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 01:28 PM
This is exaclty what the guy is talking about. You deliberately removed part of that quote so you can apply the concept of 'racism' to shut me up. Trying to limit my freedom of expression with lowly tactics is obviously not the act of one of noble mind.

oh common .. no one is stopping you pasting nonsense and no one shutting you up and your freedom of expression ., you are just like little boy ..."crying foul and crying wolf " mubs_352.. Stop that ..

And now explain me this word from your post "Spiritually-destructive technology"., JUST ONE WORD., I know the destructive technology in the hands of so-called spiritual people and criminal rogues., but I don't know what Spiritually-destructive technology" means..

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Reply #191 - August 07, 2014, 01:44 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 01:28 PM
This is exaclty what the guy is talking about. You deliberately removed part of that quote so you can apply the concept of 'racism' to shut me up. Trying to limit my freedom of expression with lowly tactics is obviously not the act of one of noble mind

Well of course, I'm not of pure Indo-European "noble" stock, I have been contaminated by semetic blood - so I can't help being sneaky and ignoble.

While we're on the subject of the in-born qualities/status of human beings - you keep avoiding my question about the Caste System.

You say you want a "discussion" but just post walls of text and avoid any "discussion" when it suits you.

So, what is your view of the Caste System?

Do you believe in a natural hierarchy amongst humans, where some races or nations are born intrinsically superior or inferior to others?
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Reply #192 - August 07, 2014, 01:54 PM

This man has found a way of measuring the amount nobility a person posses.

You might find it comes in handy when you need to identify people for particular jobs.
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Reply #193 - August 07, 2014, 01:57 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 07, 2014, 01:36 PM
oh common .. no one is stopping you pasting nonsense and no one shutting you up and your freedom of expression ., you are just like little boy ..."crying foul and crying wolf " mubs_352.. Stop that ..

And now explain me this word from your post "Spiritually-destructive technology"., JUST ONE WORD., I know the destructive technology in the hands of so-called spiritual people and criminal rogues., but I don't know what Spiritually-destructive technology" means..

By that he means "world culture", something related to globalisation, I think, not like physical technology although that is an enabler of globalisation. Probably things like the 'universal human rights' in how it espouces individuality and can be used against many native cultures, ad we have discussed already, in my opinion
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Reply #194 - August 07, 2014, 02:02 PM

Quote from: Abu Ali on August 07, 2014, 01:44 PM
So, what is your view of the Caste System?

Do you believe in a natural hierarchy amongst humans, where some races or nations are born intrinsically superior or inferior to others?

The Indian 'Caste System' is neither here nor there. But if you must know I dont really have a view on it. It does not impact my life nor can I tell you what India would be like without it.

Not sure it is 'healthy' for you to kelp coming back to something that is irrelevant to your life-experience.
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Reply #195 - August 07, 2014, 02:03 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 01:57 PM
things like the 'universal human rights' in how it espouces individuality and can be used against many native cultures

Which ones are you against?

Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 8
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Article 12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 13
Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 14
Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 15
Everyone has the right to a nationality.
No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 16
Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Article 17
Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20
Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
No one may be compelled to belong to an association.
Article 21
Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
Article 22
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23
Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
Article 24
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 26
Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Article 27
Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
Article 28
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29
Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 30
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
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Reply #196 - August 07, 2014, 02:04 PM

Quote from: Abu Ali on August 07, 2014, 01:54 PM
This man has found a way of measuring the amount nobility a person noses.

(Clicky for piccy!)

Hmmm., nobility of a person on the structure of nose..

and here that army guy looking whether the guy is circumcised or not.. I think donkeys and elephants have biggest nobility and spirituality

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Reply #197 - August 07, 2014, 02:07 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 02:02 PM
The Indian 'Caste System' is neither here nor there. But if you must know I dont really have a view on it. It does not impact my life nor can I tell you what India would be like without it.

Hmmm... that sounds distinctly evasive to me.

What about the second part of my question which does impact on your life:

Do you believe in a natural hierarchy amongst humans, where some races or nations are born intrinsically superior or inferior to others?

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 02:02 PM
Not sure it is 'healthy' for you to kelp coming back to something that is irrelevant to your life-experience.

Aww that's really sweet. You are concerned for my health.
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Reply #198 - August 07, 2014, 02:18 PM

Abu Ali, in a different thread I pasted those articles and asked him the same questions, and I even had to re-write and explain them in simple terms to get a real answer out of him.

He finds a lot of those unimportant. Particularly your right to be alive. Also slavery? Whatever. If he has to pay taxes in Britain, it's the same thing as being truly enslaved, and you don't hear mubs crying about it that often!
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Reply #199 - August 07, 2014, 02:31 PM

Quote from: lua on August 07, 2014, 02:18 PM
Abu Ali, in a different thread I pasted those articles and asked him the same questions, and I even had to re-write and explain them in simple terms to get a real answer out of him.

I think he's confused the word "discussion" with "pasting walls of text."
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Reply #200 - August 07, 2014, 02:32 PM

Okay, mubs, look. I'm actually going to give you something in that I totally agree that one does not have to be a "good" guy to have a good idea. I don't think that it's very likely that there's such a man who eats and breathes and spits nothing but evil. Of course this author might be right on something. No one needs that pointed out, I don't think any of us consider people to be so static that a man can't simultaneously be totally morally bankrupt and also very knowledgeable about history.

But a few critical things have been pointed out to you on this thread before. Firstly, a lot of this is totally vague and disputed. Secondly, it is riddled with horrible bigotry, which, as you say, doesn't necessarily condemn the whole thing to be inaccurate, but you have to understand that it is so obviously a tool to begin constructing this backstory that glorifies certain people and facilitates this superiority complex that can (and did, in this case) create oppression and genocide, just like propaganda is made to do. It's not an objective piece of work.

As someone else said, if you wanted to discuss history with us, there are numerous other resources that you could have brought to the table that would not have been so morally repulsive. The fact that you didn't even try, that you saw nothing wrong with this, that, despite almost nothing but a backlash, you keep wasting your time posting more and more of it, says a lot about you. And nothing noble.

Finally, you can tell me that you went through this and you only took the objective stuff to heart and that you didn't fall for any of that racist propaganda, but I'm going to be upfront and say that I, for one, don't believe you. Considering your totally warped and evil views on other things, and not to mention that comment you made in another thread that gives me the strong impression you're some breed of a Holocaust conspiracy theorist, I'd buy a hat and eat it if it could be proved to me that you aren't buying the garbage the author is selling.
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Reply #201 - August 07, 2014, 02:33 PM

Quote from: yeezevee asks on August 07, 2014, 01:36 PM
And now explain me this word from your post "Spiritually-destructive technology"., JUST ONE WORD., I know the destructive technology in the hands of so-called spiritual people and criminal rogues., but I don't know what Spiritually-destructive technology" means..

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 01:57 PM
By that he means "world culture", something related to , globalisation I think, not like physical technology although that is an enabler of globalisation. Probably things like the 'universal human rights' in how it espouces individuality and can be used against many native cultures, ad we have discussed already, in my opinion

no..no...nooo.. globalization and Spiritually-destructive technology have very little in common unless you think these evangelists and modern day gurus/cults are good for the human society

the fact you use words like "something related to" .." I think.. In my opinion" says to me ., that you do not understand that word "Spiritually-destructive technology" and I think you don't understand that fellow's book..

I say that word Spiritually-destructive technology is Nonsense...

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Reply #202 - August 07, 2014, 02:34 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on August 07, 2014, 02:04 PM
(Clicky for piccy!)

Well someone needs to check for the signs of nobility.
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Reply #203 - August 07, 2014, 03:01 PM

Quote from: lua on August 07, 2014, 02:32 PM
Finally, you can tell me that you went through this and you only took the objective stuff to heart and that you didn't fall for any of that racist propaganda, but I'm going to be upfront and say that I, for one, don't believe you. Considering your totally warped and evil views on other things, and not to mention that comment you made in another thread that gives me the strong impression you're some breed of a Holocaust conspiracy theorist, I'd buy a hat and eat it if it could be proved to me that you aren't buying the garbage the author is selling.

Tell me what racist propoganda I would possibly fall for given IE spans far wide covering both Indian and German peoples, who are both very differnent geographically? Secondly what exactly is 'race' other than something in the figment of the imagination of European culture. What other global cultures have an equivalent word and have shown 'racism' in their history?

I haven't done anything 'racist' here and, you have to take my word for it, in my life outside of this forum.

But if you think im some kind of slave who will be forced to condemn the Nazis, when they have done nothing to me personally, then you clearly havent understood anything. Holocaust? I dont give a shit, dont wanna know. Is that ok? Or do you force me to condemn it? I dont know wanna hear about it in school. Pls, it is not somehow unique or 'special' and fools are they who talk of the holocaust without mention of the Balfour declaration. You think you can make enemies and not face the consequences? Is that how life works?

I am an independant person who will not be manipulated by the establishment who wish to limit my freedom to keep their consumption society ticking over nicely.

Btw, why dont you say Germans instead of Nazis? Do you not see that it was the German people and not 'The Nazis' alone who were responsible.
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Reply #204 - August 07, 2014, 03:11 PM

You're entitled to your opinion, but we're entitled to think you're a shitty person for your opinion. You can hold whatever views you'd like, but they do reflect on your character. And your character could use some heavy polishing.

So it's cool, be proud that you're all for murder and all other atrocities, that you've got a romantic and unrealistic love affair with the concept of "culture" to the point where you are totally unfazed by the idea that any of your lucky family and friends could be lynched or otherwise abused in the name of it, that you get your panties in a bunch when someone makes fun of Zeus but that you can't spare a bit of sympathy for the real and actually suffering, that you don't condemn the Holocaust and Nazism or slavery. Be as proud as you'd like.

And I will very proudly restate my opinion that that makes you a disgusting person whose views should have faded out with this ancient history you're so fond of. Humanity's worse off with people like you, mubs. Luckily, you're a rapidly dying breed.
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Reply #205 - August 07, 2014, 03:18 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 03:01 PM
Tell me what racist propoganda I would possibly fall for given IE spans far wide covering both Indian and German peoples, who are both very differnent geographically? Secondly what exactly is 'race' other than something in the figment of the imagination of European culture. What other global cultures have an equivalent word and have shown 'racism' in their history?

I haven't done anything 'racist' here and, you have to take my word for it, in my life outside of this forum.

But if you think im some kind of slave who will be forced to condemn the Nazis, when they have done nothing to me personally, then you clearly havent understood anything. Holocaust? I dont give a shit, dont wanna know. Is that ok? Or do you force me to condemn it? I dont know wanna hear about it in school. Pls, it is not somehow unique or 'special' and fools are they who talk of the holocaust without mention of the Balfour declaration. You think you can make enemies and not face the consequences? Is that how life works?

I am an independant person who will not be manipulated by the establishment who wish to limit my freedom to keep their consumption society ticking over nicely.

Btw, why dont you say Germans instead of Nazis? Do you not see that it was the German people and not 'The Nazis' alone who were responsible.

All the German people were responsible?

No, I think saying the Nazis were responsible is better than saying the German people were responsible.

And are you telling me you are unable to say whether the holocaust was a good or bad thing?

You seriously are unable to say whether gassing, burning and poisoning millions of innocent human beings was a good or bad thing?

What sort of "Noble" human being are you?

OK, let me leave out the word "race" in my question and try again:

Do you believe in a natural hierarchy amongst humans, where some people or nations are born intrinsically superior or inferior to others?
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Reply #206 - August 07, 2014, 03:21 PM

btw Who are "your people" that you speak of? What tribe do you belong to? What is your culture?
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Reply #207 - August 07, 2014, 03:32 PM

I thought you wanted to discuss?
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Reply #208 - August 07, 2014, 03:46 PM

Quote from: mubs_352 on August 07, 2014, 12:35 PM
FREEDOM PART 1

QUINTUS Horatius Flaccus has described the task of all art, especially of poetry, as being to create “nothing small and in a low manner” . Yet the most popular literature of the free West, and the culture of mass media, today emphasises the unimportant sexual experiences of unbridled men, often in a degrading and unclean manner, and this is described by many newspaper critics as “art”.

The best examples of pure sexual experience, as accomplished in the nil parvum aut humili modo of Horace, may be found in the truly Indo-European Homer. According to C. F. von Nägelsbach (Homerische Theologie, third edition, edited by G. Authenrieth, 1884, p. 229) Homer always represented sensuality without lust and without prudery and never enticingly and seductively or with sensual excitement in mind; he was one of the most innocent poets of all ages and even in describing sexual scenes, he never used a word which exceeded artistic requirements. This is yet another example of how the Indo-European linked freedom with dignity

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Reply #209 - August 07, 2014, 05:34 PM

I think he's trolling, that's the only explanation

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