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 Topic: Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...

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  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     OP - October 04, 2014, 03:17 PM
    ...and Nicholas Kristol and Michael Steele.

    I see "prominent" Muslims and their heroic defenders celebrate Ben Affleck for his defense of Muslims totally ignoring the discussion here.

    Waddya think?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMMteTEbc
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  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #1 - October 04, 2014, 03:26 PM
    the clusterfuck of western responses to fundamentalist Islam on display in one video

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #2 - October 04, 2014, 03:28 PM
    I was browsing through my channels and saw this.

    I was exited to see Sam on this show only because the other day Bill Maher had some words about Islam that Reza Aslan commented on.....

    When I saw Sam on, I realized Bill wanted to have Sam say some good stuff Reza couldnt really counter...but instead Ben Aflfeck would not listen to anything Sam said....in fact he made a personal attack, saying "you have made a living off of condemning Islam".....really undermining Sam and his motive for even being on the show....Sam has a great book out, but instead of talking about it Ben Affleck wanted play cool guy humanitarian for the overly liberal crowd who are too slow to even realize Sam's arguments.

    I did not enjoy, and was actually disappointed Sam barely got to make a point. Huh?
    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #3 - October 04, 2014, 03:47 PM
    White people who feel so strongly against racism confusing condemning the bad ideas of "brown people" as being racist.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #4 - October 04, 2014, 03:53 PM
    Yes, this all 'what non-white people say is sacred' attitude sucks.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #5 - October 04, 2014, 03:54 PM
    to be honest Maher generalises a fair bit so he leaves spaces open for relativist lefties to respond in the way they do, but the gist of what he says is right and that gets under peoples skin. I'm not a fan of Sam Harriss though.

    I think relativist Lefties fall into two camps - one is the Affleck type who panic when this issue is raised because their genuine instinct is to worry about racism. Then there are other lefties who are just sinister and would genuinely impose blasphemy taboos if they could.

    The dispiriting thing is that the nuances Exmuslims could provide in the critique of Islam are never really given space, its left to the likes of Maher and Harriss who come at it from their own angle, and the realisation that relativist Lefties when push comes to shove look the other way and effectively snuff Exmuslims and all critique of Islam out, essentially giving a blasphemy / apostasy code when it comes to Islam.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #6 - October 04, 2014, 04:00 PM
    Need some charismatic ex-Muslim voice who is not a firebrand like Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #7 - October 04, 2014, 04:02 PM
    I was thinking exactly the same. This is just shouting across no man's land.
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  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #8 - October 04, 2014, 04:05 PM
    Maher is a comedian and Ben is an actor. Generalizing gets more laughs and applause. Acting outraged makes for a better performance. The debate isn't really happening between people living the issues.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #9 - October 04, 2014, 04:08 PM
    Yup, think those living 'in the belly of the beast' would be taken more seriously a la Maajid Nawaz.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #10 - October 04, 2014, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on October 04, 2014, 04:02 PM
    I was thinking exactly the same. This is just shouting across no man's land.



    It was a shouting match because Ben is a star used to the lime light. Sam is a guy who is used to a LONG conversation, and no hiding when it comes to a debate.

    If the show was 20 minuets of just Ben and Sam talking, Sam would obliterate Ben, and really highlight why Ben should stick to making millions pretending to be people on a big screen.

    why the hell is a Hollywood actor even giving his input? Just because he made Argo he is now a fucking master of middle east relations?

    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #11 - October 04, 2014, 04:37 PM
    ^^^ Agreed!
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #12 - October 04, 2014, 04:52 PM
    funny thing is I read someone somewhere say that 'Argo' is Islamophobic

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #13 - October 04, 2014, 04:53 PM
    Gahhh, the irony!
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #14 - October 04, 2014, 04:55 PM
    Quote from: lest we regress on October 04, 2014, 04:34 PM
    If the show was 20 minuets of just Ben and Sam talking, Sam would obliterate Ben, and really highlight why Ben should stick to making millions pretending to be people on a big screen.

    Definitely. And some Muslims and their heroic defenders would still laud Ben for his stance against "Islamophobia" grin12
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  • Re: Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #15 - October 04, 2014, 05:05 PM
    Something wrong with my flash/internet browser, so I can't see the video...let me guess, Bill Maher mentioned the pew poll? One thing is for sure, in order for alot of people to understand the problem,there needs to be campaign to educate and a space for nuances. I can I say one thing though, that I wouldn't support someone who would profile based on religion. Certainly,I can guess that Ben Affleck is delusional if he is like many liberals, but unless there is someone better than Sam, whose solutions have been outside of the tools of liberal democracy, then I can probably guess it will be a discussion without real solutions.

    As some if it has already been said, I think we need ex muslims who are very knowledgeable about Islam and how muslims think about Islam&Sharia, to bring in the nuances. The task in daunting enough to not see the nuances
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #16 - October 04, 2014, 05:11 PM
    Bill Maher doesn't get his points across in an amicable manner. I know it shouldn't matter, but it does. As for Sam Harriss, he's dodgy on a number of fronts anyway.

    The points of truth they make get ignored for various reasons. The lack of understanding, an cowardice of the Lefties who actualise a kind of blasphemy taboo is really creepy.

    And so this discussion goes round and round and round in circles
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #17 - October 04, 2014, 05:19 PM
    I really dont like Bill Maher....he is like a liberal version of Bill O'Riley but with an applause sign reminding his dumb audience that he just said something borderline witty and anti right wing....

    also, Bill has a big ego.....I have watched a lot of his stuff in the last few months he gets REALLY butt-hurt and upset if people in the audience don't agree with his political view....

    At the end of the day, he is another rich dude with enough power to influence and sway elections....he wants to play god just as much as he denounces god....just another hypocrite aren't we all?

    but occasionally he does say reallly funny shit hahaha  Tongue

    Sam however, is one of my favorite commentators on religion. Really haven't found anything I don't like about him, aside from noticing he has to repeat a lot of the same lines and stories in interviews....but I mean, that's not a big deal, when you are in the public eye answering questions eventually you will repeat yourself....

    Sam is also not a slouch, he went deep into spirituality and trying to find answers, he is not someone out there just to bash religion. He is well established in his career and is not afraid of a debate.....he is ready to defend his ideas.
    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #18 - October 04, 2014, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: Skywalker on October 04, 2014, 05:05 PM


    As some if it has already been said, I think we need ex muslims who are very knowledgeable about Islam and how muslims think about Islam&Sharia, to bring in the nuances. The task in daunting enough to not see the nuances



    I feel Mr. Rationalizer would be perfect for this, or that one guy who has lots of videos on the CEMB youtube page...you never hear THAT perspective on Islam.....you only hear slimy moderates who want to deny the facts about Islam.

    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #19 - October 04, 2014, 05:25 PM
    TheRationalizer is great.Also Klingschor.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #20 - October 04, 2014, 05:54 PM
    Quote from: lest we regress on October 04, 2014, 04:34 PM

    It was a shouting match because Ben is a star used to the lime light. ..................

    If the show was 20 minuets of just Ben and Sam talking, Sam would obliterate Ben, .............

    why the hell is a Hollywood actor ................

     lest we regress ... lest we regress .. lest we regress??   Huh! what kind of nick is  that??   and why are using this scary guy

     

    to represent you and scare people like me lest we regress?  any way I never read you so greetings my good wishes to you and welcome to DEN  As far as that tube is concerned I think some of them didn't finish their high school .. That guy the actor guy shoud go back to school again...
    Quote
    While Affleck had high SAT scores,  he was an unfocused high school student with poor attendance. He was accepted by the University of Virginia but instead followed a girlfriend to the University of Vermont, where he took Spanish classes.  He left the university months later with no credits, after fracturing his hip and realizing his love was unrequited.  He then moved to Los Angeles, studying Middle Eastern affairs at Occidental College for a year and a half. He dropped out when a creative writing professor ridiculed an early draft of the Good Will Hunting screenplay.

    That is his story. Clearly that guys may be good actor ( I am not sure I don't know) but he  is NOT educated  enough to discuss subjects like religion., Humanism , democracy..Socialism etc..etc..
    anyways you may like this tube.. or you may have already watched it,..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf2P3YlGveg

    In fact that actor should watch the above tube..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #21 - October 04, 2014, 05:56 PM
    Men, fuck em. It would be a breath of fresh air if ex-muslims with a muslim background or an ex-convert that is well knowledgeable of Islam to be involved rather than those two white liberal douchebags. I'm sick of hearing them making generalizations that is easy for not only "relativist lefties" but for well learned MUSLIMS as well to debunk them like Reza did. If I was a muslim myself I could have debunk most of the crap they are talking so fuck em, I wish people can stop taking them as some sort of spokesperson for the atheists worldwide. They are not helping our cause at all but make us look stupid and naïve which can also lead to reinforcement of muslim's beliefs.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #22 - October 04, 2014, 06:02 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on October 04, 2014, 05:54 PM
    lest we regress ... lest we regress .. lest we regress??   Huh! what kind of nick is  that??   and why are using this scary guy

     

    to represent you and scare people like me lest we regress?  



    Its a funny picture poking fun at Islam, and hey some of the fun about Islam is how god damn intimidating it is...FEAR GOD PUNY HUMAN! SUBMITTTTTT  devil girl

    My nick name comes from lyrics to a song...."lest we regress" is in reference to letting the human mind deteriorate back into antiquity with superstitions about reality....we wouldn't want that now would we buddy?
    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #23 - October 04, 2014, 06:07 PM
    Quote from: Cato on October 04, 2014, 05:56 PM
    Men, fuck em. It would be a breath of fresh air if ex-muslims with a muslim background or an ex-convert that is well knowledgeable of Islam to be involved rather than those two white liberal douchebags. I'm sick of hearing them making generalizations that is easy for not only "relativist lefties" but for well learned MUSLIMS as well to debunk them like Reza did. If I was a muslim myself I could have debunk most of the crap they are talking so fuck em, I wish people can stop taking them as some sort of spokesperson for the atheists worldwide. They are not helping our cause at all but make us look stupid and naïve which can also lead to reinforcement of muslim's beliefs.


    Reza never really gives a adequate counter. He is one of the most slimy moderates there is, he stands for nothing. He just wants you to know he has a religious degree and therefore somehow knows everything about the world.

    He is so ambiguous he way as well say he is agnostic....but notice how he still has to culturally identify with his faith?....HMMMMM ISNT IT ODD.....Man studies in school just to realize HIS FAITH WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!!! OH MASHALLAH!! THANK YOU ALLAH FOR HAVING ME BEEN BORN IN TEHRAN! SOME HOW I STUDDIES AND REALIZED ISLAM IS STILL RIGHT!!!! WOW!!!  lipsrsealed

    Just another kid who wants his super hero to be the strongest in the comic, even if it means making up, or denying new super powers....
    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #24 - October 04, 2014, 06:18 PM
    And you don't think he is no different from these guys? I mean being condescending and smug since I notice that's where your criticism of him lies. Also I'm not here to debate about Reza's character and whatever as it will digress from the main point I'm talking about in my previous post because if that's what you are trying to do (as I notice people tend to do that online) then please drop it.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #25 - October 04, 2014, 06:21 PM
    Bill Maher creates so many problems for ex-Muslims like us as his over generealisations and profound ignorance on key topics (e.g. FGM) delegitimises genuine issues and holds the debate back rather than advance it.

    I abhor the leftist attitude, particularly those depicted in the video. I even consider Sam to be overtly biased to one side. All debates require nuance and a thorough academic would address the balance on both sides. I doubt Sam has read the works of Qur'anic scholars or sociologists/anthropologists to make an informed decision about Islam and the disapora of Muslims throughout the world including their varied interpretations of Islamic beliefs and practices. It certainly doesn't come through in his lectures. That being said, the key teachings of Islam taken cohesively lead to the logical conclusion of subjugating ALL man-made systems under the sovereignty of the Islamic State and asserting the supremacy of the Ummah. How this is achieved is genuinely up to debate as there are verses and examples from history to support the case that this can be done violentlly or non-violently (politcal intrigue and/or economic). The more I read in to Islamic history from the prism of Islam as an Arab revolution that evovled into a religion the less I buy the line 'Islam is inherently violent'. Islam has many faces. However, the vast majority of Muslims do not view it as an Arab revolution but as part of the Divine Will, which makes Islam a dangerous idea. It is not violent but as far as ideologies go it is one of the most dangerous.  
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

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  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #26 - October 04, 2014, 06:22 PM
    Quote from: Cato on October 04, 2014, 05:56 PM
    Men, fuck em. It would be a breath of fresh air if ex-muslims with a muslim background or an ex-convert that is well knowledgeable of Islam to be involved rather than those two white liberal douchebags. I'm sick of hearing them making generalizations that is easy for not only "relativist lefties" but for well learned MUSLIMS as well to debunk them like Reza did. If I was a muslim myself I could have debunk most of the crap they are talking so fuck em, I wish people can stop taking them as some sort of spokesperson for the atheists worldwide. They are not helping our cause at all but make us look stupid and naïve which can also lead to reinforcement of muslim's beliefs.

    Hello Cato.. No one is unquestionable nothing is unquestionable ., No need to hide anything any religion, religious preaching  under the carpet.  And I am all for fucking .. fucking everybody and fucking everything....

    who is Reza? you mean Reza Aslan?  .. Professor Reza Aslan?  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #27 - October 04, 2014, 06:25 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on October 04, 2014, 06:21 PM
    Bill Maher creates so many problems for ex-Muslims like us as his over generealisations and profound ignorance on key topics (e.g. FGM) delegitimises genuine issues and holds the debate back rather than advance it.

    I abhor the leftist attitude, particularly those depicted in the video. I even consider Sam to be overtly biased to one side. All debates require nuance and a thorough academic would address the balance on both sides. I doubt Sam has read the works of Qur'anic scholars or sociologists/anthropologists to make an informed decision about Islam and the disapora of Muslims throughout the world including their varied interpretations of Islamic beliefs and practices. It certainly doesn't come through in his lectures. That being said, the key teachings of Islam taken cohesively lead to the logical conclusion of subjugating ALL man-made systems under the sovereignty of the Islamic State and asserting the supremacy of the Ummah. How this is achieved is genuinely up to debate as there are verses and examples from history to support the case that this can be done violentlly or non-violently (politcal intrigue and/or economic). The more I read in to Islamic history from the prism of Islam as an Arab revolution that evovled into a religion the less I buy the line 'Islam is inherently violent'. Islam has many faces. However, the vast majority of Muslims do not view it as an Arab revolution but as part of the Divine Will, which makes Islam a dangerous idea. It is not violent but as far as ideologies go it is one of the most dangerous.  


    Well put Afro
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #28 - October 04, 2014, 06:26 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on October 04, 2014, 06:22 PM
    who is Reza? you mean Reza Aslan?  .. Professor Reza Aslan?  

    Yes Reza Aslan. I guess Cato is referring to this tube:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #29 - October 04, 2014, 06:33 PM
    Aslan, as in Narnia?
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