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 Topic: The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam

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  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     OP - October 13, 2014, 02:55 PM
    Hi guys this is my First ever post here let's keep this civilized and good conversation

    VERY IMPORTANT, read the last note on the bottom of the hypothesis presented before you jump into crazy conclusions about me (like stopspamming did)

    the Hypothesis of slavery allowance in Islam:

    what I'm about to present here is a hypothesis based on ideas and hadiths i read there is no evidence to support it ,(yet) but I'm ready to accept the criticism and change my mind so far when i presented it i got nothing but attacks and it was based or misunderstanding of what i condone
    The Hypothesis:

    The reason why Islam allow slavery (I think) is because of the conditions slaves was in at the time of the 7th century Arabia they were on the streets(will it's not called streets but you get the point) and they had no food no houses to live in no place so Islam allowed slavery so slaves can have a home to live in house to be in and clothes to wear and food to eat otherwise they will die of hunger on streets and will have no food to eat so when there master (if that is what he is called) can feed them give them food and put them in his house they will be fine instead of being homeless in streets Islam doesn't completely allow slavery but partially

    VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: now here is the part you need to lesson to I DON'T CONDONE or allow slavery quite against it i condemn it, so no I'm not saying slavery is good it's just what i presented above is nothing more than a hypothesis based on hadiths and thinking and ideas so everyone be nice i know it's a sensitive topic but again don't say in the comment that i justify or allow slavery because I DON'T you have the right to reject it it's a hypothesis after all just like many hypothesis i heard against Islam

    Thanks for your time and be nice a civilized again i repeat in case of you didn't get it (I don't condone or allow slavery and what i presented was a hypothesis means there is no evidence to back it up yet)
     thnkyu Smiley


    BTW I'm a muslim
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #1 - October 13, 2014, 03:11 PM
    What is your opinion on Hell? That was the question that bugged me most. I mean how can God who says he is: ارحم الراحمين at the same time torture anyone, khalideena abada? The two things are contradictory - apart from the fact that eternal torture is an unbelievably excessive and cruel punishment for not believing in a God who keeps himself hidden.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #2 - October 13, 2014, 03:16 PM
    Ooops sorry I followed the link from your intro - I didn't realise the thread was about slavery.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #3 - October 13, 2014, 03:16 PM
    Why didn't Allah just snap his fingers and abolish slavery? How can Allah be omnipotent if he can't even do that?

    this just proves that even if he exists in purely theoretical terms, Allah is impotent
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #4 - October 13, 2014, 03:17 PM
    Thanks for making this thread, Ahmed. I'll just put my same criticism I mentioned before back here to see if you can address it for me:

    If your hypothesis was correct, and slavery was allowed for the benefit of the slave who would otherwise be in poverty and starve or die from the elements, why would freeing slaves be considered a charity in Islam worthy of God's blessings? According to your hypothesis, wouldn't it mean the slaveowner is being rewarded by God for throwing the slave into the street to fend for himself?
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #5 - October 13, 2014, 03:28 PM
    I read your hypothesis and I’m going to respect your sincerity. You seem like the type who is not afraid to do a little research on your own, so I’m going to hopefully give you some food for thought. Tell me what you think.

    1.   If slavery is, by definition, the forced state of servitude of one human being to another, how can this state improve the economic position of the slave when his efforts are restricted to improving the condition of his master? You may say that as the master’s condition improves, so will the slaves, but this is not necessarily the case. In fact, the slave has no opportunity to improve his own condition through his own volition, as all of his own endeavors are necessarily for the benefit of his master.
    2.   It is well documented in Islamic tradition that many of the sahaba were very poor. Why do we not see instances of them volunteering to be slaves? Why do we see, instead, an insistence upon charity if slavery was meant to improve economic status?
    3.   Why is freeing a slave a good thing? Does this not show that the condition of being free is more desirable than the condition of being a slave?
    4.   Why did Muhammad curse runaway slaves?
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #6 - October 13, 2014, 03:30 PM
    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 02:55 PM
    .............................
    The Hypothesis:

    ...The reason why Islam allow slavery (I think) is because of the conditions slaves was in at the time of the 7th century Arabia they were on the streets(will it's not called streets but you get the point) and they had no food no houses to live in no place so Islam allowed slavery so slaves can have a home to live in house to be in and clothes to wear and food to eat otherwise they will die of hunger on streets and will have no food to eat so when there master (if that is what he is called) can feed them give them food and put them in his house they will be fine instead of being homeless in streets Islam doesn't completely allow slavery but partially ....

    VERY IMPORTANT NOTE...............................

    BTW I'm a muslim

    Hmm.... there were no houses.. no food ..no place to go in Saudi Arabia,   hence Allah/ God religion  Islam allowed slavery  so slaves can have house , food and place to live...

    well it would have been better for allah  god to teach to slaves to   build houses, to  grow food instead keeping them as slaves to some slave drivers

    Good hypotheses for 6th grade  essay  AhmedZaid9119.. well I am sure  you will improve on that.., meanwhile continue to read and write in to CEMB

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #7 - October 13, 2014, 03:30 PM
    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 02:55 PM
    The Hypothesis:

    The reason why Islam allow slavery (I think) is because of the conditions slaves was in at the time of the 7th century Arabia they were on the streets(will it's not called streets but you get the point) and they had no food no houses to live in no place so Islam allowed slavery so slaves can have a home to live in house to be in and clothes to wear and food to eat otherwise they will die of hunger on streets and will have no food to eat so when there master (if that is what he is called) can feed them give them food and put them in his house they will be fine instead of being homeless in streets Islam doesn't completely allow slavery but partially


    This sounds unhistorical to me. In the ancient world slaves were usually captured in warfare - or piracy or other commercial slave raiding - or were born into slavery. I've read accounts from Roman history of people selling themselves or their children into slavery in times of famine or disaster, but this seems to have been the exception. I think slavery in early Islamic societies would have worked in a similar way - and in fact in Syria, Palestine and North Africa early Islamic society was essentially a continuation of late Roman society. At this time slavery was also accepted almost without question by Christianity, but at least Christians now don't look back to the seventh century for guidance on how society should work.
    Which side are you on?
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #8 - October 13, 2014, 03:39 PM
    ^This is entirely true, I’m sure. But the thing is that many Muslims have trouble viewing Islam critically from a historical standpoint. Islam, its prophet, its scriptures, and the political structures and empires that arose from them are often seen by Muslims as infallible ideals. Things like slavery, infighting, persecution, etc cannot therefore be viewed as the flawed actions of humans to be relegated to history, just as they were in Rome, China, and the Americas. They have to be justified and excused in order to keep up the façade. While I think it is useful to ultimately push people to think beyond their boundaries, I also think it’s hard to do that without first confronting the assertions of those ideals as they know them to be.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #9 - October 13, 2014, 03:42 PM
    I'm fairly sure that Islam was fairly socialist with the sadaka, zaka, bait mal el muslemeen(I think is what it's called). Not only did poor people not have it that bad due to those things, but I'm fairly certain that slaves had no right to benefit of such things, as they weren't recognized as individual people by the 'state'.

    To add to zeca's point if he doesn't mind:

    Quote from:  Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:512
    Narrated Anas: The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet . The Prophet made her manumission as her 'Mahr'.


    EDIT: Also, to my knowledge, slaves did NOT have any foretold right for money. Their 'owners' just had to make sure they ate and drank and had some clothes.
    أشهد أن لا إله
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #10 - October 13, 2014, 03:52 PM
    Right now, the problem is not really about the nature slavery in Islamic empires. It’s about the fact that AhmedZaid9119 has to believe that Islam is perfect, but is also confronted with the fact that Muhammad allowed, condoned, and participated in slavery. So now, slavery – a universal evil – has to somehow be spun as some sort of good thing, since of course, Islam is good.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #11 - October 13, 2014, 04:04 PM
    If Islamic slavery existed to help the poor, please explain:

    1. Why Muslims could not be enslaved.
    2. Why prisoners of war were enslaved.
    3. Why women were enslaved to be raped.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #12 - October 13, 2014, 04:07 PM
    Quote from: billy on October 13, 2014, 03:16 PM
    Why didn't Allah just snap his fingers and abolish slavery? How can Allah be omnipotent if he can't even do that?

    this just proves that even if he exists in purely theoretical terms, Allah is impotent


    will first we can't understand how god talk or work second as it's defined in the hadiths to treat slaves well so i just want to know your opinion on the hypothesis

    keep it civilized plz
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #13 - October 13, 2014, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: lua on October 13, 2014, 03:17 PM
    Thanks for making this thread, Ahmed. I'll just put my same criticism I mentioned before back here to see if you can address it for me:

    If your hypothesis was correct, and slavery was allowed for the benefit of the slave who would otherwise be in poverty and starve or die from the elements, why would freeing slaves be considered a charity in Islam worthy of God's blessings? According to your hypothesis, wouldn't it mean the slaveowner is being rewarded by God for throwing the slave into the street to fend for himself?


    i forgot to mention another part of it sorry will according to hadith literatureit's said you can free the save so  i think freeing slave is also allowed in islam sense it's mentioned in hadith and quran so freeing them when they get to have the apility to feed themselves
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #14 - October 13, 2014, 04:11 PM
    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 04:07 PM
    will first we can't understand how god talk or work


    /thread?
    أشهد أن لا إله
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #15 - October 13, 2014, 04:23 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 13, 2014, 03:28 PM
    I read your hypothesis and I’m going to respect your sincerity. You seem like the type who is not afraid to do a little research on your own, so I’m going to hopefully give you some food for thought. Tell me what you think.

    1.   If slavery is, by definition, the forced state of servitude of one human being to another, how can this state improve the economic position of the slave when his efforts are restricted to improving the condition of his master? You may say that as the master’s condition improves, so will the slaves, but this is not necessarily the case. In fact, the slave has no opportunity to improve his own condition through his own volition, as all of his own endeavors are necessarily for the benefit of his master.
    2.   It is well documented in Islamic tradition that many of the sahaba were very poor. Why do we not see instances of them volunteering to be slaves? Why do we see, instead, an insistence upon charity if slavery was meant to improve economic status?
    3.   Why is freeing a slave a good thing? Does this not show that the condition of being free is more desirable than the condition of being a slave?
    4.   Why did Muhammad curse runaway slaves?



    thanks for the reply as you can see there is so many replies i got I'm gonna get so much busy now anyway here is my take tell me if I'm wrong

    1-will that is all depended on your definition of slavery i read in authentic hadith (slaves are your brothers feed them of what you eat and clothes them don't make them work too hard help them) so i guess Islamic slavery is different and that hadith is authentic but I'm just making a quick reply because i have allot of responses here to deal with as you can see if it was only you i will be happy to give the source

    2-how poor you mean??? money or poor in social states?

    3-will there is freeing slave in islam it's in the quran and hadith as i read somewere someone slaped his slave allah apostle commanded him to set him free
    4-what do you mean?

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #16 - October 13, 2014, 04:27 PM
    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 04:07 PM
    will first we can't understand how god talk or work second as it's defined in the hadiths to treat slaves well so i just want to know your opinion on the hypothesis

    keep it civilized plz


    Muhammad was a slave owner, and a slave trader. Slavery and Islam are synonymous. Ameliorating it by saying it was a treated slaves relatively well admits (a) Allah doesn't exist or else he would have snapped his fingers and ended it and (b) Islam is a limited and parochial ethical code
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #17 - October 13, 2014, 04:30 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on October 13, 2014, 03:30 PM
    Hmm.... there were no houses.. no food ..no place to go in Saudi Arabia,   hence Allah/ God religion  Islam allowed slavery  so slaves can have house , food and place to live...

    well it would have been better for allah  god to teach to slaves to   build houses, to  grow food instead keeping them as slaves to some slave drivers

    Good hypotheses for 6th grade  essay  AhmedZaid9119.. well I am sure  you will improve on that.., meanwhile continue to read and write in to CEMB

    with best wishes
    yeezevee



    thanks for the reply man i have alot of comments here to reply to anyway i hope i won't disapont anyone or ignore anyone

    (Good hypotheses for 6th grade)

    what do you mean by that? you are suggesting that I'm a 6th grade kid?


    here there was no such a  thing as Saudi Arabia at there time
    how can allah teach slaves how to build a house if 1- they don't have the materials to do so 2-why will he come down and tell them face to face?
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #18 - October 13, 2014, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 13, 2014, 03:52 PM
    Right now, the problem is not really about the nature slavery in Islamic empires. It’s about the fact that AhmedZaid9119 has to believe that Islam is perfect, but is also confronted with the fact that Muhammad allowed, condoned, and participated in slavery. So now, slavery – a universal evil – has to somehow be spun as some sort of good thing, since of course, Islam is good.


    and the point of the comment?
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #19 - October 13, 2014, 04:38 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on October 13, 2014, 04:04 PM
    If Islamic slavery existed to help the poor, please explain:

    1. Why Muslims could not be enslaved.
    2. Why prisoners of war were enslaved.
    3. Why women were enslaved to be raped.


    1-they did they were slave muslims and non muslim slaves
    2-when you capture them how do you keep them even now when you go to war in another country and you capture enemy soldiers and put them in prisons they are basically captives not slaves
    3-irrelevant to my point i was speaking of why Islam allowed slavery nothing about women here and rape is a different topic

    thanks for the reply anyway  sorry if i was rude in anyway
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #20 - October 13, 2014, 04:39 PM
    Quote from: xtremestr on October 13, 2014, 04:11 PM
    /thread?


    you mean ?? this is a post about slavery allowance
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #21 - October 13, 2014, 04:46 PM
    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 04:39 PM
    you mean ?? this is a post about slavery allowance


    I.e a separate thread about ...

    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 04:07 PM
    will first we can't understand how god talk or work second as it's defined in the hadiths to treat slaves well so i just want to know your opinion on the hypothesis

    keep it civilized plz

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #22 - October 13, 2014, 04:47 PM
    Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 13, 2014, 04:23 PM
    4-what do you mean?




    Ibn

    Khuzaymah and Ibn Hibbaan report a hadeeth

    by Jaabir: “There are three whose

    prayers will not be accepted and none of whose

    good deeds will ascend to heaven: a runaway

    slave, until he returns to his master; a drunken

    man until he becomes sober; and a woman with

    whom her husband is angry, until he is pleased

    with her.”
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #23 - October 13, 2014, 04:49 PM
    Quote from: billy on October 13, 2014, 04:27 PM
    Muhammad was a slave owner, and a slave trader. Slavery and Islam are synonymous. Ameliorating it by saying it was a treated slaves relatively well admits (a) Allah doesn't exist or else he would have snapped his fingers and ended it and (b) Islam is a limited and parochial ethical code



    (Muhammad was a slave owner,)

    your point ? first how many slaves he has
    Narrated 'Amir bin Al-Harith: Allah's Apostle (Prophet Muhammad) did not leave a Dinar or a Dirham (Arab form of currency or money)  or a male or a female slave. He left only his white mule on which he used to ride, and his weapons, and a piece of land which he gave in charity for the needy travelers. (Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 738)

    "The household of Muhammad did not possess even a single Sa of wheat or food grains for the evening meal, although he has nine wives to look after." (See Hadith No. 685) (Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 283)

    Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet used to visit all his wives in one night and he had nine wives at that time. (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 5, Number 282). It doesn't mention anything about slavewomen or concubines.

    at the end of the day you might be right he might had slaves but the point is did he kept them all under his possess intell he died??

    yes he might had slaves before but at the end he freed them i was making this post to see your opinion on it so far do you think it;s possible?

    thanks for the reply
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #24 - October 13, 2014, 04:52 PM
    Quote
    your point ?


    the point is the perfect man for eternity (as Muslims believe him to be and aspire to be like) was not a prophet, or a possessor of timeless morality. He was a slave trader and a slave owner, a man limited by the age he lived in. That is all.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #25 - October 13, 2014, 04:57 PM
    Quote
    Anas said “Captives were gathered at Khaibar. Dihyah came out and said “Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) give me a slave girl from the captives.” He said “Go and take a slave girl. He took Safiyyah daughter of Huyayy. A man then came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said “You gave Safiyyah daughter of Huyayy, chief lady of Quraizah and Al Nadir to Dihyah? This is according to the version of Ya’qub. Then the agreed version goes “she is worthy of you.” He said “call him along with her. When the Prophet (ﷺ) looked at her, he said to him “take another slave girl from the captives. The Prophet (ﷺ) then set her free and married her.


    Sunan Abu Dawood, Book 20, Hadith 71
    http://sunnah.com/abudawud/20/71

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #26 - October 13, 2014, 04:58 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 13, 2014, 04:47 PM
    Ibn

    Khuzaymah and Ibn Hibbaan report a hadeeth

    by Jaabir: “There are three whose

    prayers will not be accepted and none of whose

    good deeds will ascend to heaven: a runaway

    slave, until he returns to his master; a drunken

    man until he becomes sober; and a woman with

    whom her husband is angry, until he is pleased

    with her.”


    i couldn't find the hadith you sited but i found this

    When the slave runs away from his master, his prayer is not accepted.
    حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، أَخْبَرَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ مُغِيرَةَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، قَالَ كَانَ جَرِيرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ يُحَدِّثُ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ إِذَا أَبَقَ الْعَبْدُ لَمْ تُقْبَلْ لَهُ صَلاَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
    Reference    : Sahih Muslim 70

    so i guess this is you hadith right??? anyway i agree with you i do see this hadith but here is about prayer as slave prayer won't be accepted not that he is cursed anyway but let us take it that he is cursed i will agree with you this hadith seams a bit problematic but not a MAJOR PROBLEM i want to know your opinion on these:

    Abu Mas'ud al-Ansari reported:
    When I was beating my servant, I heard a voice behind me (saying): Abu Mas'ud, bear in mind Allah has more dominance over you than you have upon him. I turned and (found him) to be Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). I said: Allah's Messenger, I set him free for the sake of Allah. Thereupon he said: Had you not done that, (the gates of) Hell would have opened for you, or the fire would have burnt you.
    وَحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو كُرَيْبٍ، مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْعَلاَءِ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا الأَعْمَشُ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، التَّيْمِيِّ عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي مَسْعُودٍ الأَنْصَارِيِّ، قَالَ كُنْتُ أَضْرِبُ غُلاَمًا لِي فَسَمِعْتُ مِنْ خَلْفِي صَوْتًا ‏"‏ اعْلَمْ أَبَا مَسْعُودٍ لَلَّهُ أَقْدَرُ عَلَيْكَ مِنْكَ عَلَيْهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَالْتَفَتُّ فَإِذَا هُوَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هُوَ حُرٌّ لِوَجْهِ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ أَمَا لَوْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ لَلَفَحَتْكَ النَّارُ أَوْ لَمَسَّتْكَ النَّارُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
    Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1659 c
    In-book reference    : Book 27, Hadith 56
    USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 15, Hadith 4088

    so what do you think of this hadith


  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #27 - October 13, 2014, 05:03 PM
    Hi Ahmed,

    I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the question I posed earlier about Hell. Perhaps on this thread:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24124.0

    Quote
    What is your opinion on Hell? That was the question that bugged me most. I mean how can God who says he is: ارحم الراحمين at the same time torture anyone, khalideena abada? The two things are contradictory - apart from the fact that eternal torture is an unbelievably excessive and cruel punishment for not believing in a God who keeps himself hidden.

  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #28 - October 13, 2014, 05:05 PM
    Quote from: billy on October 13, 2014, 04:52 PM
    the point is the perfect man for eternity (as Muslims believe him to be and aspire to be like) was not a prophet, or a possessor of timeless morality. He was a slave trader and a slave owner, a man limited by the age he lived in. That is all.


    that is your opinon anyway you say he was limited to his time means all what he did was limited to rules existed on his time therefore you can't say he was a pedophile because it was OK at his time to marry at young age the fact that Aisha aws engaged to jabir Ibn muti'm before the prophet and the fact that non of his enemies said anything nagitive about his marriage proves that you might say Muslims want to implimint everything he did which is again impossible show me an orphan who had no house no parents no one to take care of him except only few people and was poor to start a major movement from out of nowhere anyway for the slave part i want your thoughts on this:

    Abu Mas'ud al-Ansari reported:
    When I was beating my servant, I heard a voice behind me (saying): Abu Mas'ud, bear in mind Allah has more dominance over you than you have upon him. I turned and (found him) to be Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). I said: Allah's Messenger, I set him free for the sake of Allah. Thereupon he said: Had you not done that, (the gates of) Hell would have opened for you, or the fire would have burnt you.
    وَحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو كُرَيْبٍ، مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْعَلاَءِ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا الأَعْمَشُ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، التَّيْمِيِّ عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي مَسْعُودٍ الأَنْصَارِيِّ، قَالَ كُنْتُ أَضْرِبُ غُلاَمًا لِي فَسَمِعْتُ مِنْ خَلْفِي صَوْتًا ‏"‏ اعْلَمْ أَبَا مَسْعُودٍ لَلَّهُ أَقْدَرُ عَلَيْكَ مِنْكَ عَلَيْهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَالْتَفَتُّ فَإِذَا هُوَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هُوَ حُرٌّ لِوَجْهِ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ أَمَا لَوْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ لَلَفَحَتْكَ النَّارُ أَوْ لَمَسَّتْكَ النَّارُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
    Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1659 c
    In-book reference    : Book 27, Hadith 56
    USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 15, Hadith 4088
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #29 - October 13, 2014, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 13, 2014, 05:03 PM
    Hi Ahmed,

    I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the question I posed earlier about Hell. Perhaps on this thread:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24124.0



    that is a very different topic in fact I'm planing to do a very interesting research on the topic of hell in islam wither it's permanent or temporary stay tuned for it i know i will get nagitive views on it and people will say Bullshit but hay everyone has his own opinion and just a question you have a picture of a child holding the quran and you call yourself agnostic muslim and seams you are in the bar of leaving islam I'm i right?
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