Now, I know, I know, Ahmed. You're going to either reject this hadith or find some weird way of accepting it in the context. Here's the problem, Ahmed, and it's very much tied up in what happymurtad was saying at the very start.
Whether or not you realize it, Ahmed, this thread is full of indisputable reasons why your hypothesis is unsupported and your conclusions false. You've not given one reasonable explanation as to why slavery would be something forcefully imposed on people, why manumitting them is a charity, and why escaped slaves would have their prayers unaccepted by God until they return to their masters. In fact, there are hadith that tell of slaves escaping their owners, only to be recaptured later by the Muslims and returned to the slaveowner. Does this sound like slavery was for the benefit of the slave, Ahmed?
Let's face it. You don't have a lot of evidence on your side. Some hadith and some Quranic passages about treating the slaves well in certain regards (as well as you can treat someone whose freedom you deny and who you can lawfully have sex with) is not even close to enough to turn the tides on all of the issues we've pointed out for you here. Like I said, it's clear for any unbiased reader of the hadith or the Quran that not even Mohammad himself believed your hypothesis.
But I get you, Ahmed. I think we all get you, much better than you think we do. A lot of us have been in your place before. Many of us realized some things about Islam were just truly evil on the outside, and we sat around and came up with idea after idea, just like you're doing now, to try to explain why this was allowed in Islam, and coming up short.
You haven't ever concerned yourself before, not even for a minute of your life, with justifying slavery in any other culture, practiced by any other man for any other reason. The only reason you're grasping at straws trying to explain this historical case of slavery is that you need for there to be a good reason for it. You can't accept that there isn't. You so desperately want there to be a reason, so you're hanging onto this hypothesis even though it's been debunked dozens of ways in this thread so far.
I'm not telling you that you can't keep trying to find ways to make yourself feel good about the slavery Mohammad allowed and encouraged and engaged in. Knock yourself out. But if you're being intellectually honest, if you allow yourself a moment to sit down and actually think about the points you've heard today, you should realize that this idea of yours is beyond impossible. It is downright silly. It's my sincere advice that you think a little harder, and come up with one more probable.
lua i don't want this to turn in some sort of a fight
(Now, I know, I know, Ahmed. You're going to either reject this hadith or find some weird way of accepting it in the context. Here's the problem, Ahmed, and it's very much tied up in what happymurtad was saying at the very start.)
NO absolutely not i said that many times that i even lost count to it i ACCEPT ALL CRITISIZM all of it i accepted all the hadiths you sited i even called some of them problematic so why are you accusing me of saying i find weird way to twist it no i try to TAKE everything in the hadith the context and every word and dissect it and put it in logic scope and see the result so far no one convinsed me that there is a hadith that says you can have sex with a woman or a slave without her consent let alot no where in the sunnh there is except some hadiths that justifies some verses like 4:24 that says you are allowed to have sex with female slaves BUT doesn't say you are allowed to force yourself on her this ALLL goes back to 4:19
(Whether or not you realize it, Ahmed, this thread is full of indisputable reasons why your hypothesis is unsupported and your conclusions false. You've not given one reasonable explanation as to why slavery would be something forcefully imposed on people, why manumitting them is a charity, and why escaped slaves would have their prayers unaccepted by God until they return to their masters. In fact, there are hadith that tell of slaves escaping their owners, only to be recaptured later by the Muslims and returned to the slaveowner. Does this sound like slavery was for the benefit of the slave, Ahmed?)
do you know what hypothesis is?? hypothesis is generally not accepted when it face evidence for it it becomes a theory when it face evidence against it it REMAIN a hypothesis so you can't reject a hypothesis and basicly my hypothesis is about treated slaves kindly where in the hadith does it says you can do what evere you want to your slave or don't treat them kindly??? please show me
plus lesson I'm not trying to degrade you or anyone else but from the moment i returned to islam after i left it and heard many arguments that want me to leave islam NONE of them was genuine or just not convincing and i was easily able to debunk it I'm not speaking now but before i came here in the first place
(But I get you, Ahmed. I think we all get you, much better than you think we do. A lot of us have been in your place before. Many of us realized some things about Islam were just truly evil on the outside, and we sat around and came up with idea after idea, just like you're doing now, to try to explain why this was allowed in Islam, and coming up short.)
No you don't because you don't know me you don't know how i left islam and what i went trough the Ahmed you are talking to now is different than the Ahmed before he left Islam now I'm more depressed than before and the days i went through when i left islam was like dark days of my life my emotions was flipping and my anxiety went crazy to the point of suicide attempts you don't know me so you can't say you have been in my place
(You haven't ever concerned yourself before, not even for a minute of your life, with justifying slavery in any other culture, practiced by any other man for any other reason. The only reason you're grasping at straws trying to explain this historical case of slavery is that you need for there to be a good reason for it. You can't accept that there isn't. You so desperately want there to be a reason, so you're hanging onto this hypothesis even though it's been debunked dozens of ways in this thread so far.)
how many times i have to say this i don't justify slavery this is the last time i will say that however like i said you can't debunk a hypothesis and i already said it's not proven so you can't say it's debunked sense i already said that IN THE VERY POST I MADE that this is unproven rendering this comment you made futile but slaves treatment is better in islam than before it and the is an absolute fact that i showed here no one was able to debunk it the only verses about slaves you showed me is about slavery allowance and just one about sex that is all but no one was able to debunk the Hadiths about your slaves are your brothers and fear allah concerning your slaves and my slaved forced me to commit fornication (rape) therefore 24:33 was revealed and the hadiths about giving women the consent in marriage None of the hadiths i provided was debunked
and the last comment you accused me of being intellectually dishounest yet i said many many times that i accept all critisizm
Topic: The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam