Seems that canaaniteshift responded before me, but here goes anyways.
I think you are missing the point, dear Altara. Not saying you are wrong, but it seems you are reading stuff into the original thread that was never said.
But it is implied dear Mahgraye that the AEN guy (whoever he is) who tweet the story, thinks it is in Mecca. It does not tell it because it is what it is accepted as history because it is what it is
taught. Moreover this guy speaks of "Arabia" not "North" "South" or "West". He insists on multilingualism in "Arabia" If you have a twitter account, it could be interesting to ask him where he places what he said, the episode with Gabriel. And prepare yourself to read the response as the "Hijaz" or "Mecca" perforce in the "Hijaz". As the "Hijaz" nobody know what it is before islam, it could be on Mars....
If not, ask how such a story like this during 20 years have not spread everywhere in Orient during 20 long years whereas Orient is full everywhere of the God of Moses.
Ask him. [/quote]
The point is not whether this was in the West Arabian town of Mecca or not, but rather, that the audience of the Quran, which you can locate somewhere in the North if you so wish, was multilingual, having a good grasp of Aramaic.
To the contrary that's the point as well. Because I cannot seriously locate in the North something which would have spread very quickly
outside the event : God come to speak to an Arab and nobody knows it during 20 years? 20 years, nobody? In late Antiquity? Totally surrounded culturally by the God of Moses? And no allusions, no traces? Not plausible (to me). But it is not only the audience, it is the writers of the text having a good grasp of Aramaic. The narrative is false on two main points : the language of the writer and the audience. And the "Mecca" city. What remains to be false? Zem zem? Abu Bakr? and so on. That is why I always come back to the Muslim narrative, dear Mahgraye, because outside the dream city of Mecca in the Hijaz, this story is untenable in Late Antiquity. Untenable. Therefore it means that this story is false. It's a fraud. And the Quranic text has nothing to do with that story (even with Waraqa et al.)
Well, of course the narrative is inexact! Where was it even remotely implied that it was not? Scholars now beleive - even neo-traditionalist ones, such as Mehdy Shaddel - that the later sources are not always to be trusted.
If Meddy Shaddel is a "scholar" I am an astronaut! He was never trained as a "scholar" of anything! He is a translator at best. It is what was written on this Academia account 4 or 5 years ago! I'm the King of England as well! Hahaha !
Ask him if he thinks that "Muhammad" was in Mecca with Abu Bakr and if Mecca existed before Islam! He will say : "Yes I believe". Do not fool yourself dear Mahgraye, even Daniel Beck speaks of "Medina" on which he have not an atom of source! Not one. But he is really sure, he knows (God spoke to him maybe, like Muhammad!) , I do not comprehend how he can be sure of something whose nobody speak of in Late Antiquity...
Not really sure how Dye is relevant to this, since he agrees that the audience of the Quran were multilingual. Although Dye does think that parts of the Quran was written in Syro-Palestine.
Yes Dye is sceptic. He got his PhD at la Sorbonne in Philosophy (about Scepticism in Antiquity !) with Rémi Brague (a very great scholar - a real one- read it, he's a speialist of Muslim and Jewhish philosophy in medieval times ) Dye knows very well in which trap he is, you can trust me... ^^ I read his article “Traces of Bilingualism/Multilingualism in the Qurʾānic Arabic,” do not be worried!
My request (or recommendation) to you is that you should cease to seeing these scholars in such a bad light.
Well When they will behaviour as "scholars" and not amateur, I will cease! I promise!
As always, I apologize if this came of as confrontational or hostile, dear Altara.
NP dear Mahgraye.
Topic: Qur'anic studies today