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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3180 - August 16, 2018, 08:05 PM
    Quote
    Who actually is Luxenberg?


    Christoph Luxenberg needs no introduction. He is a Christian (Syriac priest?) scholar of Lebanese origins specializing in Semitic philology, who has spent a good amount of time teaching in Germany (presumable retired by now).

    His monumental Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart des Koran (Berlin: Verlag Hans Schiler, 2004, 1st ed. 2000), first published in 2000, ignited a storm of controversy in academia. and in the media as well. Therein he argued that the Quran was not written in Classical Arabic, but was originally written in a so-called Aramaic-Arabic mischsprache (‘mixed-language’). A lot of opaque words, passages, and sometimes entire chapters, in the Quran - according to Luxenberg - can thus be rendered sensible if read in Syriac, and not Arabic.

    A clarification is in place. The term Syro-Aramaic used by Luxenberg is nothing but his own concocted technical nomenclature. He is basically referring to Syriac, and the Edessene dialect of Eastern Aramaic, to be more precise.

    You can access his book here: https://goo.gl/uD2Tek
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3181 - August 16, 2018, 08:07 PM
    Regarding the passages I cited, Luxenberg thinks that the Quran does not really deny the Crucifixion, but only the Jewish claims of having killed and crucified the Messiah. Presumable, he also thinks that the Quran affirms the Resurrection and ascension as well.  He is certainly not the only scholar who thinks so.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3182 - August 16, 2018, 08:54 PM
    Quote from: Altara on August 16, 2018, 08:00 PM
    Page not found
    We’re sorry, the page you have requested is not available.

    oops let me redo the link  from different source  and add it to that Freely down loadable  Books on Pro-Islam and anti Islam. folder in cemb forum resource center

    here the pdf file of Luxenberg work dear Altara

    The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran by  Christoph Luxenberg
     
    well the link works hope it works for others too
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3183 - August 16, 2018, 08:56 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 16, 2018, 08:05 PM
    Christoph Luxenberg needs no introduction. He is a Christian (Syriac priest?) scholar of Lebanese origins specializing in Semitic philology, who has spent a good amount of time teaching in Germany (presumable retired by now)

    So who is he and what is original name?  did he publish anything else apart from that book on early history  of Islam/Quran origins?
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3184 - August 16, 2018, 09:04 PM
    His real name is only know to his close friends and colleagues. Yes. He has published several articles apart from his book. If I am not mistaken, he will soon publish another book. 
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3185 - August 16, 2018, 09:23 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 16, 2018, 08:07 PM
    Regarding the passages I cited, Luxenberg thinks that the Quran does not really deny the Crucifixion, but only the Jewish claims of having killed and crucified the Messiah. Presumable, he also thinks that the Quran affirms the Resurrection and ascension as well.  He is certainly not the only scholar who thinks so.


    1/ Yes. The Quran claims that the Crucifixion appeared only to the Jews. Then, yes he denies it. Jews were tricked.
    2/ Nope, because Jesus was not crucified, it was an hallucination see only by the Jews. Therefore it did not resurrected since he was not crucified.

    All scholars are agree on this, it seems.Jesus was not crucified.
    It is interesting that the Romans do not appears in the episode. According to the Gospels, it is them who have executed Jesus. (yawn)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3186 - August 16, 2018, 09:29 PM
    Reynolds, Mourad, and Luxenberg have all written on this topic. Please refer to their respective publications, since I think they answer these question.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3187 - August 16, 2018, 09:40 PM
    Dear Mahgraye,

    What I wrote is my understanding of the episode.  In all the articles I read, it seems to me that all the scholars are agree. What I read? You can check the topic in academia for each scholars you mentioned. Reynolds has something if I remember.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3188 - August 16, 2018, 09:41 PM
    All scholars agree that the Quran denies the historical Crucifixion of Jesus? Have I got that right?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3189 - August 16, 2018, 09:45 PM
    "The Hidden Origins Of Islam New Research Into Its Early History"

    A very good PDF quality : https://archive.org/details/TheHiddenOriginsOfIslamNewResearchIntoItsEarlyHistory

    And an interesting book : all articles are good in different way.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3190 - August 16, 2018, 09:45 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 16, 2018, 09:41 PM
    All scholars agree that the Quran denies the historical Crucifixion of Jesus? Have I got that right?


    Yes. (more or less) but more more than less.

    The Quran claims that the Crucifixion appeared only to the Jews. Then, yes he denies it. Jews were tricked by God.
    2/ Jesus was not crucified, it was an hallucination see only by the Jews. Therefore it did not resurrected since he was not crucified.
    Reread the Quranic passage.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3191 - August 16, 2018, 09:48 PM
    Quote
    Yes. (more or less) but more more than less.


    Well, Reynolds, Mourad, and Luxenberg certainly disagree on that point. All three argue that the Quran affirms the historical Crucifixion of Jesus.

    Quote
    And an interesting book : all articles are good in different way.


    Yeah. Luxenberg argues in that very book that the Quran affirms the historical Crucifixion of Jesus.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3192 - August 16, 2018, 09:52 PM
    Reynolds , Mourad, and Luxenberg say that Jesus was crucified in the Quran? You can cite them?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3193 - August 16, 2018, 09:52 PM
    Yeah. Give me some time. They all argue that the verse is a anti-Jewish polemic.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3194 - August 16, 2018, 09:57 PM
    Quote
    They all argue that the verse is a anti-Jewish polemic.


    Only the Jews saw him, it's a trick from God, you understand or not? A TRICK. It's mean that it did not HAPPEN : Jesus is not dead on the cross says the Quran.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3195 - August 16, 2018, 10:11 PM
    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielSaidR/status/1029857752825454593
    Quote
    Delighted to hear that @ARTEfr is re-broadcasting the documentary Jésus et l’Islam. Très reconnaissant d’être avec les grands @MehdiAzaiez @emrane et d’autres spécialistes !

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4EovLIUbXJQ Documentary in French, which is frustrating as I can more or less understand some of the speakers but not others.
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3196 - August 16, 2018, 10:28 PM
    Forthcoming conference

    Biblical Traditions in the Qur’an
    11-12 October 2018 The Royal Society, London

    https://www.britac.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Biblical_Traditions_in_the_Qur%27an_CURRENT_PROGRAMME_5.pdf

    https://www.britac.ac.uk/events/biblical-traditions?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=biblicaltraditionsquran&utm_content=events
    Quote
    Understanding the Qur’an’s engagement with Biblical and Biblically based traditions has re-emerged as a pivotal scholarly challenge. The Islamic scripture clearly addresses an audience that was profoundly familiar with a considerable amount of Biblical and post-Biblical Jewish and Christian stories, concepts, and doctrines, and it engages in a sophisticated process of ideological critique, recasting, and reconfiguration in accordance with a particular set of doctrinal commitments. The conference will gather an interdisciplinary group of specialists in order to create a comprehensive image of the current state of our understanding of the Qur'an's intimate engagement with Biblical and Biblically based traditions.

    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3197 - August 16, 2018, 10:35 PM
    I love when Yousef Kouriyhe speaks, especially in Arabic, but the translations gets in the way.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3198 - August 16, 2018, 10:38 PM
    Not to mention Reynolds, Crone et al being dubbed into French.
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3199 - August 16, 2018, 10:39 PM
    Exactly! Very frustrating. Do you think they can provide the original audio without the dubbing?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3200 - August 16, 2018, 10:49 PM
    Quote from: zeca on August 16, 2018, 10:38 PM
    Not to mention Reynolds, Crone et al being dubbed into French.


    Hahaha! Learn French. English is French very bad pronounced...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3201 - August 16, 2018, 10:50 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 16, 2018, 10:39 PM
    Exactly! Very frustrating. Do you think they can provide the original audio without the dubbing?


    Idem. Afro
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3202 - August 16, 2018, 10:51 PM
    Ha ha ha. Had a suspicion that you would say something like that, ha ha.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3203 - August 16, 2018, 11:02 PM
    To end the story of the crucifixion which did not happen : Quran and the GOSPEL ; waqawlihim innā qatalnā l-masīḥa : Jesus is died ont he cross... God respond : wamā  qatalūhu wamā ṣalabūhu walākin shubbiha lahum

    End of story.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3204 - August 16, 2018, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 16, 2018, 10:39 PM
    Do you think they can provide the original audio without the dubbing?

    I’m sure it would be easy enough for them to do this, I’m not sure they’d have the motivation.

    It seems to be one of a series of documentaries: https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/RC-012163/jesus-et-l-islam/
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3205 - August 16, 2018, 11:05 PM
    This is documentary is in several parts, all of which are available on YouTube. Do you mean that there is going to be additional documentaries about different topics?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3206 - August 16, 2018, 11:15 PM
    There’s a list of episodes here: http://sales.arte.tv/fiche/4899/JESUS_ET_L_ISLAM

    Jésus et l’islam (1/7) - La crucifixion selon le Coran
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AJN2YUXqrxs
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3207 - August 16, 2018, 11:39 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on August 16, 2018, 11:05 PM
    This is documentary is in several parts, all of which are available on YouTube. Do you mean that there is going to be additional documentaries about different topics?


    The first episode is about the crucifixion nor Dye, nor Reynolds, nor others say that the Quran says that Jesus was crucified... They think to an collective illusion or a sosie of Jesus in the frame of this illusion organised by God.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3208 - August 16, 2018, 11:42 PM
    Maybe not Dye, not sure what he thinks, but Reynolds, Mourad, who also is in the documentary, and Luxenberg, all opine that the Quran does affirm the historical Crucifixion.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3209 - August 16, 2018, 11:49 PM
    For Reynolds, see: Gabriel Said Reynolds, “The Muslim Jesus: Dead or Alive?”, Bulletin of SOAS, 72, 2 (2009), 237–258.
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