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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4290 - September 27, 2018, 01:21 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:18 AM
    He was the nephew of his wife, Aisha.

      did you get all that from Quran? 

    Are you guys talking about Muhammad of Quran or some other Muhammad??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4291 - September 27, 2018, 01:22 AM
    Muhammad the Prophet.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4292 - September 27, 2018, 01:24 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:22 AM
    Muhammad the Prophet.

    sorry NO AISHA IN QURAN..  so that guy you are talking is NOT Muhammad of Quarn...  that is some other Muhammad.. ..

    Was Aisha father also some Jew..Ibn ABU BUKHRA..  of Islam?
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4293 - September 27, 2018, 01:28 AM
    Come to think of it, I am not sure what this has to do with Muhammad and Aisha. Ibn al-Zubayr is the famous anti-Marwanid Caliph. Simple as that. As for Muhammad, it is Muhammad the Prophet. No one else. Everytime I write Muhammad, I use the word as everyone understands it, that is, the Prophet Muhammad.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4294 - September 27, 2018, 01:37 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:28 AM
    Come to think of it, I am not sure what this has to do with Muhammad and Aisha. Ibn al-Zubayr is the famous anti-Marwanid Caliph. Simple as that.

    well it is all to do with what YOU SAID few minutes ago..

    1).  "you get the name of Ibn al-Zubayr..............the Ibn Jew

    2). you say he was nephew of Aisha .. 9 year old bride of "some guy"

    and 3). you make that guy as Quran's Prophet and you say he is  YOUR ISLAMIC PROPHET "

    that is what you said dear Mahgraye. So it is all to do with what you said..

    Quote
    As for Muhammad, it is Muhammad the Prophet. No one else. Everytime I write Muhammad, I use the word as everyone understands it, that is, the Prophet Muhammad.[/b][/s]

    .. Sorry that is YOUR PROPHET MUHAMMAD .. who is nothing to do with Muhammad of Quran.. or Quranic Muhammad or Quranic Prophet
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4295 - September 27, 2018, 01:40 AM
    Irrelevant. I did not discuss the Quran or Muhammad or Aisha. Rather, I said Ibn al-Zubayr. I said what I mean by Muhammad.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4296 - September 27, 2018, 01:42 AM
    And what is this Ibn al-Jew?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4297 - September 27, 2018, 01:45 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:40 AM
    Irrelevant. I did not discuss the Quran or Muhammad or Aisha. Rather, I said Ibn al-Zubayr. I said what I mean by Muhammad.


    what?? why  is that Irrelevant? is that above Muhammad different from this Muhammad .. Aisha Husband??
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:18 AM
    He was the nephew of  his wife, Aisha.

    who is that "his" in your neck of the world? is he not Muhammad of Quran??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4298 - September 27, 2018, 01:45 AM
    He, is Ibn al-Zubayr.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4299 - September 27, 2018, 01:48 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:42 AM
    And what is this Ibn al-Jew?

     Cheesy Cheesy.,  well I read some where all  "Ibn"s were Jewish tribes of middle East of that time., ..

     Let me ask you this question Do you know any Jewish guy with "Ibn" in his name from 2nd century to say 12th century?? or even today??

    did you NOT READ this post and watch this tube at this post  it was for you
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 26, 2018, 12:38 PM
    why only one messenger??  there are 114 chapters with over 6300 verses .,  well there could be MANY MESSENGERS TO THAT QURANIC TEXT OF  THAT TIME .,

    Who knows  Mahgraye .. allalh/god knows the best ..,  All those  Quranic messengers  could be different  Juices who moved in to Islam ...  Orange Juice ...Apple juice ...Grape juice... Grape fruit  juice..............Ibn Juice...Pagan juice.. hasidic juice ..Moroccan Juice.....Mountain juice..  ... Baghdadi juice..............Berber juice...  Juicy Juice Islam

    oh well let me watch this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N52vkK9o98

     Tariq Ali .... Tariq Ali ... dear Tariq Ali ..  you stuck in the ISLAMIC past .. you got to move on man........

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4300 - September 27, 2018, 01:54 AM
    Nothing amusing. Can't understand a word. Ibn meana son. Simple Arabic.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4301 - September 27, 2018, 01:57 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:54 AM
    Nothing amusing. Can't understand a word. "Ibn" means a son. Simple Arabic.

    No My question is NOT amusing one .. question was
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 01:48 AM
     

     Let me ask you this question Do you know any Jewish folks  with "Ibn" in his name from 2nd century to say 12th century?? or even today??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4302 - September 27, 2018, 01:59 AM
    I don't know.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4303 - September 27, 2018, 01:59 AM
    They have an equivalent for "ibn": ben. Example: Àbraham ben Jacob.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4304 - September 27, 2018, 02:09 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:59 AM
    They have an equivalent for "ibn": ben. Example: Àbraham ben Jacob.


    well "Ben"  Hebrew   adjective  for European  Jewish folk from who moved in to present Israeli state..

    Quote
    From the Hebrew name בִּנְיָמִין (Binyamin) which means "son of the south" or "son of the right hand", from the roots בֵּן (ben) meaning "son" and יָמִין (yamin) meaning "right hand, south". Benjamin in the Old Testament is the twelfth and youngest son of Jacob and the founder of one of the southern tribes of the Hebrews. He was originally named בֶּן־אוֹנִי (Ben-'oni) meaning "son of my sorrow" by his mother Rachel, who died shortly after childbirth, but it was later changed by his father (see Genesis 35:18)

    .
    But  how about Jewish folks living in Middle  East from Morocco to Persia  since  say 2nd century?? specially YOUR PROPHET OF ISLAM TIME.,

     Did Ben  became "Ibn"??  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4305 - September 27, 2018, 02:12 AM
    I don't know. How is this relevant?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4306 - September 27, 2018, 02:17 AM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:59 AM
    I don't know.


    how about these guys  Ibn Falaquera...  Ibn Gabirol.. Ibn Kammuna..  Abraham ibn Daud..  Abraham Ibn Ezra??

    Were they Muslims Or Jews??   i would not be surprised   if some one proves your "Ibn_"

    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:45 AM
    He, is Ibn al-Zubayr.

      your Ibn al-Zubayr Caliph was a Jewish guy..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4307 - September 27, 2018, 02:34 AM
    oops  there is problem here...   hi Mahgraye  can you read this post again

    https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27568.msg880486#msg880486  

    i just edited .. I made mistake  in the above post.,  I typed  "He  " instead of "his"   .. So please edit your answer here in this post
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 27, 2018, 01:45 AM
    He, is Ibn al-Zubayr.

      your answer above should be NOT "Ibn al-Zubayr"  but Aisha husband .. Muhammad .. Quranic Muhammad ??Prophet of Islam??

    please pick and replace that word  "Ibn al-Zubayr" in your post  with one of the above words.. or your own..

    with best regards
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4308 - September 27, 2018, 06:45 AM
    Marc,

    Thank you for your historic overview, very interesting:

    Quote
    624: Battle of Badr. Expulsion of the Bani Qainuqa Jews from Madina.  Heraclius goes back to war against Persia
    625: Battle of Uhud. Massacre of 70 Muslims at Bir Mauna. Expulsion of Banu Nadir Jews from Madina. Second expedition of Badr.  Byzantine army retreats
    626: Expedition of Banu Mustaliq.
    627: Battle of the Trench. Expulsion of Banu Quraiza Jews.  Battle of Ninive ; Persian army is anihilated ; Siege of Ctesiphon
    628: Truce of Hudaibiya. Expedition to Khyber. The Holy Prophet addresses letters to various heads of states.  Byzantine victory over the Persian empire ; peace treaty with Kavadh II
    Battle of Ubullah ; beginning of the Sassanian- arab war
    628: Deputation from al-Muqawqis an egyptian governor who brings Māriyah and her sister Sīrīn to be given to Muhammad,   Murder of Chosroes II whose wives were called Māriyah and Sīrīn
    629: The Holy Prophet performs the pilgrimage at Makkah. Expedition to Muta (Romans).
    630: Conquest of Makkah. Battles of Hunsin, Auras, and Taif. Heraclius bring back the Cross to Jerusalem
    631: Expedition to Tabuk. Year of Deputations.
    632: Farewell pilgrimage at Makkah.
    632: Death of the Holy Prophet/quote]

    (Don't seem to be able to copy your overlining   Huh?)

    Especially your 628 entry with the start of the Sassanian-Arab wars is new to me. So fully organised muslim armies were already combatting and winning on "the eastern front" fighting against an important Christian Arab force. So seemingly the proto-muslims emerged in the mids or at the periphery of Western Christian Arabs (ex-nabateans) at  one side, and of Eastern Christian Arabs at the other side...

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4309 - September 27, 2018, 09:02 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 12:04 AM
    Marc S  takes SOME Islamic history and deletes ISLAM, MUHAMMAD, MECCA from All Islamic history
    Helooooo Marc S.. you too???  No Prophet No Mecca No Madina and No Zamzam?? then what is Islam? and what is  Islamic tradition??


    Hahaha!

    Quote
    And why write this are you telling me all that "The Hajj : The Muslim Pilgrimage to Mecca and the Holy Places , F.E. Peters" history  IS "HARRY POTTER ISLAM"??


     
    Before Islam, yes."The Hajj : The Muslim Pilgrimage to Mecca and the Holy Places" invented after 692. From the Quranic texts.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4310 - September 27, 2018, 09:41 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 12:04 AM
    Marc S  takes SOME Islamic history and deletes ISLAM, MUHAMMAD, MECCA from All Islamic history
    Helooooo Marc S.. you too???  No Prophet No Mecca No Madina and No Zamzam?? then what is Islam? and what is  Islamic tradition??

    Islamic tradition does exist eventhough it was made up in Persia. You mistake describing events/telling a story (the tradition) and its authenticity/historicity (did those events truly happen)

    Quote
    And why write this are you telling me all that "The Hajj : The Muslim Pilgrimage to Mecca and the Holy Places , F.E. Peters" history  IS "HARRY POTTER ISLAM"??


    No, you don't get my point. Islamic tradition writers took sometimes real events and inserted them into their narrative by islamizing them. In the case of Mecca, I think we can find from islamic traditions when the pilgrimmage was directed to that town. Obviously constructing roads, improving urban settings were needed to accomodate for this pilgrimmage ; therefore identifying in muslim writings when these building works were done for the first time can give us a clue of when, in real life, Mecca became the holy city of islam.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4311 - September 27, 2018, 09:46 AM
    Quote from: mundi on September 27, 2018, 06:45 AM

    Especially your 628 entry with the start of the Sassanian-Arab wars is new to me. So fully organised muslim armies were already combatting and winning on "the eastern front" fighting against an important Christian Arab force.



    Sorry to make it clear, I am refering here to the war between the Sassanian empire and the arab forces that most people place after 632 once the ridda wars were over, but in fact it started years before the official date so namely 628. And it remains to be proven that they were muslim.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4312 - September 27, 2018, 09:46 AM
    Quote from: Altara on September 27, 2018, 09:02 AM
    Hahaha!

     
    Before Islam, yes."The Hajj : The Muslim Pilgrimage to Mecca and the Holy Places" invented after 692. From the Quranic texts.

    on those words from you here is the question to you from that  curious lurker dear Altara

    Quote from: yeezevee on September 25, 2018, 10:07 AM

    But... but  this curious lurker question is important...

      and the question is
    Quote from: curious-lurker on September 24, 2018, 09:35 PM
    Do/can we know when/how the switch to current Mecca occurred? Apologies for the noob questions lol

    so any answer?
    Quote from: Altara on September 27, 2018, 09:02 AM
    ...  The Muslim Pilgrimage to Mecca ....    ]

    and is that present Mecca or some other place??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4313 - September 27, 2018, 09:51 AM
    Quote from: Marc S on September 27, 2018, 09:41 AM
    Islamic tradition does exist eventhough it was made up in Persia. You mistake describing events/telling a story (the tradition) and its authenticity/historicity (did those events truly happen)

    No, you don't get my point. Islamic tradition writers took sometimes real events and inserted them into their narrative by islamizing them. In the case of Mecca, I think we can find from islamic traditions when the pilgrimmage was directed to that town. Obviously constructing roads, improving urban settings were needed to accomodate for this pilgrimmage ; therefore identifying in muslim writings when these building works were done for the first time can give us a clue of when, in real life, Mecca became the holy city of islam.

    And you are confusing novice Muslim guys by telling stories on some real events that are nothing to do with Quranic Muhammad,...

    did I get that right dear Marc _s  ??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4314 - September 27, 2018, 10:00 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 02:17 AM

      your Ibn al-Zubayr Caliph was a Jewish guy..


    How do you know that ?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4315 - September 27, 2018, 10:03 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 09:51 AM

    Islamic tradition does exist eventhough it was made up in Persia.



    Al Tabari, Al Baladuri, Al BukHari, to name a few, were all from Persia.

    Quote
    And you are confusing novice Muslim guys by telling stories on some real events that are nothing to do with Quranic Muhammad,...

    did I get that right dear Marc _s  ??


    Not sure what you mean by that. I am not trying to confuse anyone.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4316 - September 27, 2018, 10:24 AM
    Quote from: Marc S on September 27, 2018, 09:46 AM
    Sorry to make it clear, I am refering here to the war between the Sassanian empire and the arab forces that most people place after 632 once the ridda wars were over, but in fact it started years before the official date so namely 628. And it remains to be proven that they were muslim.





    Interesting this! I know very little of this part of history. Looked up on Wikipedia and the description is between Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ullais

    Do you have a source you can recommend with a hisotrical critical account of events?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4317 - September 27, 2018, 10:24 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 01:14 AM
    that was not the point ..  the point is...

    what was his ((Ibn al-Zubayr..............the Ibn Jew)) relationship with prophet of Islam??  ...The Prophet who grew up in Mecca ..Madina.. drinking Zam zam water "according to you guys THE EARLY ISLAM HISTORIANS"

    Hahaha! Zubayr is Iraqi. He has never been what the narrative told  that he was : born in Mecca/Medina/Zem Zem. Because we know that it not existed.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4318 - September 27, 2018, 10:27 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on September 27, 2018, 01:21 AM
      did you get all that from Quran? 

    Are you guys talking about Muhammad of Quran or some other Muhammad??


    There's nothing about that in the Quranic texts.
    There is no some other Muhammad, because there is no Muhammad at all.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #4319 - September 27, 2018, 10:37 AM
    Quote from: mundi on September 27, 2018, 06:45 AM


    Especially your 628 entry with the start of the Sassanian-Arab wars is new to me. So fully organised muslim armies were already combatting and winning on "the eastern front" fighting against an important Christian Arab force.


    What?  Huh?

    Quote
    So seemingly the proto-muslims emerged in the mids or at the periphery of Western Christian Arabs (ex-nabateans) at  one side, and of Eastern Christian Arabs at the other side...


    What?  Huh?
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