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Theme Changer

 Topic: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo

 (Read 85163 times)
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  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #90 - January 08, 2015, 04:06 AM

    Rant in response to my friend on FB:

    Name_of_my_friend, that's just not true. The US and other Western countries have had a hand in the rise of Islamic extremism, but the Wahhabi doctrine arose in 1700's in the Arab peninsula and the takfiri ideology which underpins it has deep roots in Islam, going back perhaps as many Muslims themselves suggest to the kharijites of the first and second Islamic centuries. Islam is certainly not a monolith but the Islam of ISIL and Al Qaeda is every bit as legitimate and well attested in history as that of pacifistic Sufis from India, in some cases it is even of greater antiquity. Islamic supremacism in Islamic countries is every bit as much a product of Islamic culture going back to the beginnings of Islam as white supremicism is the product of European culture going back to the high middle ages. Outside forces have changed and shaped it, but in the medieval and early modern worlds it was the underpinning of all societies in the Islamic world and the continued appeal of an imagined "Golden Age" where all infidels where submissive dhimmis, Islam is the ideology of the state, women are confined to the bedroom and the kitchen, and slavery is legal is every bit as appealing and unfortunately relevant as is the white supremacist dream of a world ruled by white European men. It's a powerful cultural idea that supports entrenched capitalist and clan-based power structures and makes life a living hell for millions of LGBT people. religious minorities, women, and apostates in the Islamic world. If you want to claim that the caricatures were racialized, fine, that's a legitimate critique (though I think they're just plain ugly because that was Hebdo's style) but attacking the bigoted, reactionary ideas of Islamic supremacists is no sin for any leftist and should not be, as long as the critiques do not stereotype all Muslims and do not become obsessive to the point of forgetting who our real enemies are here in the West. Charlie Hebdo was an equal opportunity offender and I believe they fulfilled all of the criteria.

    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #91 - January 08, 2015, 04:48 AM

    Beware when fighting monsters, blah blah, you know the rest.


    Beware when fighting monsters, you have to kill them before they kill you. That's what you meant right? lol
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #92 - January 08, 2015, 04:50 AM

    Ha, well, you go by that, you're always going to have your work cut out for you.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #93 - January 08, 2015, 05:31 AM

    This is apposite...
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/indonesia-aceh-province-enforces-sharia-non-muslims-1435497

    "Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination."

    I hope the people of France see through this ploy.

    Edit: Having read through this twice I'm now wondering whether this was a far right plot.

     -
          -  yeah , I heard Charlie Hebdon gave all their jewish employees the day off ....
      FFS !    - face reality
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #94 - January 08, 2015, 05:52 AM

    Are you being serious?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #95 - January 08, 2015, 06:07 AM

    absolutely
     I've already placed my order for Alex Jones' DVD exposing the truth
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #96 - January 08, 2015, 06:09 AM

    Ehhh can't tell if you're joking still. Damn my eternal optimism.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #97 - January 08, 2015, 07:07 AM

    maybe these killers were influenced by the Kim jong un incident with Sony making that satirical film about his assasination, he threatened to send gunmen to any cinema that dared to screen the film.   

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #98 - January 08, 2015, 09:45 AM

    The Masked Arab:

    Je suis Charlie - Does Islam encourage blasphemy killings?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEYVkaDAlMc

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #99 - January 08, 2015, 09:55 AM

     Mr Charbonnier was named as one of nine men the extreme Islamist group were targetting (pictured centre right). Their photographs were printed alongside the caption 'a bullet a day keeps the infidel away'




    http://pantrydawg.blogspot.com/2006/02/twelve-infidels-on-twelve-infidelities.html
    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-75211.html

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #100 - January 08, 2015, 10:31 AM

    just seen on Sky news there has been another attack in Paris - two armed men jumped out of car and shot a policeman and someone else
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #101 - January 08, 2015, 10:32 AM

    Mr Charbonnier was named as one of nine men the extreme Islamist group were targetting (pictured centre right). Their photographs were printed alongside the caption 'a bullet a day keeps the infidel away'

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    http://pantrydawg.blogspot.com/2006/02/twelve-infidels-on-twelve-infidelities.html
    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-75211.html


    This makes me so angry.  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #102 - January 08, 2015, 10:47 AM

    Sky now have Ashgar Bakhari on , complaining about racist cartoons and muslims not being accorded human rights
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #103 - January 08, 2015, 10:51 AM

    Apparently on twitter 'killallmuslims' was recently trending.

    Incidents such as these happen with very little condemnation from Muslims resulting in more hate and intolerance. In turn this feeds the victimhood culture of Muslims in Europe causing them to identify even stronger with their Islamic background and less with the society that they live in.

    What a bleak future.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #104 - January 08, 2015, 11:32 AM

    Are you being serious?


    Your question wasn't directed at me but I want to say my earlier edit was intended to be a joke.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #105 - January 08, 2015, 11:49 AM

    Tom Holland

    Quote
    Viewpoint: The roots of the battle for free speech

    Historian Tom Holland was one of those who tweeted Charlie Hebdo's cartoon of Muhammad in the wake of the deadly attack on the magazine's office. Here he explains the ramifications of defending free speech.

    Religions are not alone in having their martyrs. On 1 July, 1766, in Abbeville in northern France, a young nobleman named Lefebvre de la Barre was found guilty of blasphemy. The charges against him were numerous - that he had defecated on a crucifix, spat on religious images, and refused to remove his hat as a Church procession went past.

    These crimes, together with the vandalising of a wooden cross on the main bridge of Abbeville, were sufficient to see him sentenced to death. Once La Barre's tongue had been cut out and his head chopped off, his mortal remains were burned by the public executioner, and dumped into the river Somme. Mingled among the ashes were those of a book that had been found in La Barre's study, and consigned to the flames alongside his corpse - the Philosophical Dictionary of the notorious philosopher, Voltaire.

    Voltaire himself, informed of his reader's fate, was appalled. "Superstition," he declared from his refuge in Switzerland, "sets the whole world in flames."

    Two-and-a-half centuries on, and it is the notion that someone might be put to death for criticising a religious dogma that is likely to strike a majority of people in the West as the blasphemy. The values of free speech and toleration for which Voltaire campaigned all his life have become enshrined as the very embodiment of what Europeans, as a rule, most prize about their own civilisation.

    Voltaire, with his mocking smile, still serves as their patron saint. In France, where secular ideals are particularly treasured, he is regularly invoked by those who feel the legacy of the Enlightenment to be under threat.

    When Philippe Val, the editor of Charlie Hebdo, published a book in 2008 defending the right of cartoonists to mock religious taboos, the title was telling. Reviens, Voltaire, Ils Sont Devenus Fous, he called it - Come Back, Voltaire, They Have Gone Insane. It was not Christians, though, whom Val was principally calling mad.

    Continue reading the main story
    Tom Holland
    Tom Holland
    Tom Holland is a writer, broadcaster and historian. His latest book, In The Shadow of the Sword, is an account of the history of Islam.

    He wrote and presented the documentary Islam: The Untold Story.

    Between the 18th Century and the 21st, the religious complexion of France had radically altered. Not only had the power of the Catholic Church gone into precipitous retreat, but some six million immigrants belonging to a very different faith had arrived in the country.

    Islam, unlike Catholicism, had inherited from the Jews a profound disapproval of figurative art. It also commemorated Muhammad - the prophet believed by his followers to have received God's ultimate revelation, the Koran - as the very model of human behaviour. Insults to him were traditionally held by Muslim jurists to be equivalent to disbelief - and disbelief was a crime that merited Hell.

    Not that there was anything within the Koran itself that necessarily mandated it as a capital offence. "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills, let him believe; and whoever wills, let him disbelieve." Nevertheless, a story preserved in the oldest surviving biography of Muhammad implied a rather more punitive take. So punitive, indeed, that some Muslim scholars - who are generally most reluctant to countenance the possibility that the earliest biography of their prophet might be unreliable - have gone so far as to question its veracity.

    The story relates the fate of Asma bint Marwan, a poet from the Prophet's home town of Mecca. After she had mocked Muhammad in her verses, he cried out, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter [Asma means daughter]?" - and sure enough, that very night, she was killed by one of his followers in her own bed. The assassin, reporting back on what he had done, was thanked personally by the Prophet. "You have helped both God and His messenger!"

    "Ecrasez l'infâme," Voltaire famously urged his admirers: "Crush what is infamous". Islam, too, makes the same demand. The point of difference, of course, is over how "l'infâme" is to be defined. To the cartoonists of Charlie Hebdo, who in 2011 published an edition with a swivel-eyed Muhammad on the cover, just as earlier they had portrayed Jesus as a contestant on I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, and Pope Benedict holding aloft a condom at Mass, it is the pretensions of authority wherever they may be found - in politics quite as much as in religion.

    To the gunmen who yesterday launched their murderous attack on the Charlie Hebdo office, it is the mockery of a prophet whom they feel should exist beyond even a hint of criticism. Between these two positions, when they are prosecuted with equal passion and conviction on both sides, there cannot possibly be any accommodation.

    It was the Salman Rushdie affair that served as the first symptom of this. Since then, like a dull toothache given to periodic flare-ups, the problem has never gone away. I myself had first-hand experience of just how intractable it can be in 2012, with a film I made for Channel 4. Islam: The Untold Story explored the gathering consensus among historians that much of what Muslims have traditionally believed about the life of Muhammad is unlikely to be strict historical fact - and it provoked a firestorm of death threats.

    Unlike Charlie Hebdo, I had not set out to give offence. I am no satirist, and I do not usually enjoy hurting people's feelings. Nevertheless, I too feel that some rights are worthy of being defended - and among them is the freedom of historians to question the origin myths of religions. That was why, when I heard the news from Paris yesterday, I chose to do something I would never otherwise have done, and tweet a Charlie Hebdo cartoon of Muhammad.

    The BBC, by contrast, has decided not to reproduce the cartoon for this article. Many other media organisations - though not all - have done the same. I refuse to be bound by a de facto blasphemy taboo.

    While under normal circumstances I am perfectly happy not to mock beliefs that other people hold dear, these are far from normal circumstances. As I tweeted yesterday, the right to draw Muhammad without being shot is quite as precious to many of us in the West as Islam presumably is to the Charlie Hebdo killers.

    We too have our values - and if we are not willing to stand up for them, then they risk being lost to us. When it comes to defining l'infâme, I for one have no doubt whose side I am on.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30714702
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #106 - January 08, 2015, 12:23 PM

    Mr Charbonnier was named as one of nine men the extreme Islamist group were targetting (pictured centre right). Their photographs were printed alongside the caption 'a bullet a day keeps the infidel away'


    One down.

    Three of those guys are Danish.



    And pictures of women are haram.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #107 - January 08, 2015, 12:47 PM

    So... the two main suspects are of Algerian decent. I guess I win my bet.

    I prefer the Canard, France's other satirical weekly.


    I quite like le Canard too. Good taste, David!

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #108 - January 08, 2015, 12:48 PM

    just seen on Sky news there has been another attack in Paris - two armed men jumped out of car and shot a policeman and someone else


    Yep.

    http://www.euronews.com/2015/01/08/french-police-woman-killed-in-morning-shooting-near-paris/

    Also, in the spirit of this on-going insanity: attack on a kebab shop adjacent to a mosque in France

    http://www.euronews.com/newswires/2872576-explosion-rocks-kebab-shop-near-mosque-in-east-france-police-source/

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #109 - January 08, 2015, 12:59 PM

    Your question wasn't directed at me but I want to say my earlier edit was intended to be a joke.


    Well, that's a relief, at least I can be sure of your sanity. Grin

    I'm just going to assume aife was joking, too, to preserve some faith in humanity.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #110 - January 08, 2015, 01:04 PM

    I'm quite certain aife was joking, lua Smiley No one in their right mind would ever want to be associated to Alex Jones Cheesy

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #111 - January 08, 2015, 01:10 PM

    Grin That's good to hear. I've been so often disappointed by how many people aren't in their right minds to have been sure.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #112 - January 08, 2015, 01:18 PM

    I don't think even the craziest conspiracy theorists will claim that Jewish employees were given the day off anyway, given that Georges Wolinski was Jewish.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #113 - January 08, 2015, 01:20 PM

    Self-loathing Arab ex-Muslim posted this on reddit in response to the "Je Suis Charlie" campaign:


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #114 - January 08, 2015, 01:24 PM

    I don't think even the craziest conspiracy theorists will claim that Jewish employees were given the day off anyway, given that Georges Wolinski was Jewish.


    Ahh, true, I guess I'm too burned out on them. Although, unfortunately, it's a popular theory going around reddit that it was a "mossad" operation. Roll Eyes
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #115 - January 08, 2015, 01:38 PM

    Not that it matters what religion or ethnic background those killed come from, but the policeman executed in the street while lying wounded on the ground was Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim policeman.

    I only mention that due to the irony and madness of it all.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901681/Hero-police-officer-executed-street-married-42-year-old-Muslim-assigned-patrol-Paris-neighbourhood-Charlie-Hebdo-offices-located.html
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #116 - January 08, 2015, 01:43 PM

    He was a taghoot. No irony from the perspective of the criminals.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #117 - January 08, 2015, 01:45 PM

    Not that it matters what religion or ethnic background those killed come from, but the policeman executed in the street while lying on the ground and holding his hands up was Ahmed Merabet a north African Muslim policeman.

    I only mention that due to the irony and madness of it all.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901681/Hero-police-officer-executed-street-married-42-year-old-Muslim-assigned-patrol-Paris-neighbourhood-Charlie-Hebdo-offices-located.html


    I bet they're quite happy about that, given that an "Arab" in the police force is by definition a traitor.

    Also I'm a bit creeped out because I know a man with the same name.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #118 - January 08, 2015, 01:57 PM

    Fuck people, seriously. I thought I'd take a break from facebook for a week or so to avoid having to read the load of bullshit that's being spewed by either conspiracy theorists, right wing bigots or apologists, but this shit seems to be following me everywhere, with a coworker (quite modern girl, too) who promised to send me an email proving that it was all a "coup monté."

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #119 - January 08, 2015, 02:08 PM

    Not that it matters what religion or ethnic background those killed come from, but the policeman executed in the street while lying wounded on the ground was Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim policeman.
    I only mention that due to the irony and madness of it all.
    .....




    RIP Ahmed Merabet....  

    No..no.,  Nope He is NOT same type of Muslim.,

     How can he be a Muslim when he is a Police officer in an infidel country protecting infidels  that too who are insulting Bearded weirdo Islamic heroes who put their head  in sand and ass up in to the sky?  




    He is the one on the ground., that is how ROGUES OF ISLAM kill people who are unarmed not fighting them....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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