Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Lights on the way
by akay
October 04, 2024, 01:18 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
October 03, 2024, 12:57 PM

New Britain
October 02, 2024, 07:07 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
September 29, 2024, 07:32 AM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
September 15, 2024, 09:35 PM

Tariq Ramadan Accused of ...
September 11, 2024, 01:37 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
September 11, 2024, 01:01 PM

France Muslims were in d...
September 05, 2024, 03:21 PM

What's happened to the fo...
September 05, 2024, 12:00 PM

German nationalist party ...
September 04, 2024, 03:54 PM

Gaza assault
by zeca
August 25, 2024, 11:52 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
August 18, 2024, 01:03 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo

 (Read 85267 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 6 7 89 10 ... 20 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #210 - January 10, 2015, 01:38 AM

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2903930/PIERS-MORGAN-accept-Paris-murderers-aren-t-real-Muslims-won-t-MUSLIM-world-say-too.html

    Why does this guy say that there is no punishment for blaspheming in Quran? I thought it was 33:61?

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #211 - January 10, 2015, 01:43 AM

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/joe-sacco-on-satire-a-response-to-the-attacks

    What do you think about this? A little comic strip by Joe Sacco.

    I think it takes too many leaps in reasoning.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #212 - January 10, 2015, 02:49 AM

    I think it actually shuts down communication. He says any stereotype is only a stereotype, and that by trying to understand Muslims we will end the bloodshed, thus that Islamism must be a reaction to oppression, discrimination, and bias. I resent that. Everyone who experiences prejudice resents that. We didn't run around killing people for it.
    Ya. Overly simplistic is right.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #213 - January 10, 2015, 03:10 AM

    I also don't get how people can continue to compare overt racism to a depiction of a man who may have lived 1400 years ago. It's fallacious at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #214 - January 10, 2015, 08:58 AM

    As some recent articles have highlighted, I think it is a mistake to think that it is actually about cartoons - but rather about increasing tension between Muslims and non-Muslims.

    I know many people who are saying; "Why are these people doing this it will only help the far-right and anti-Islam brigade and harm Muslims living in the West in the long-term"

    Well that's exactly what they want to do.

    The specific target is not the real issue - except in as far as it helps turn up the heat for Muslims here and pushes more into the arms of extremists.

    It's about recruiting - not cartoons.



    yep and Muslims are going to feel the heat now even more, because instead of fixing radical islamic militant  problems internally and taking care of it, they spent their time making conspiracy theories that its all a "CIA/Jewish plot to make Muslims look bad" nonsense.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #215 - January 10, 2015, 11:01 AM

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/joe-sacco-on-satire-a-response-to-the-attacks

    What do you think about this? A little comic strip by Joe Sacco.

    I think it takes too many leaps in reasoning.


    I like it!!
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #216 - January 10, 2015, 11:47 AM

    Do you agree with it? If so, why?

    I don't.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #217 - January 10, 2015, 12:32 PM

    I also think the sort of satire published by hebdo is a vapid crass and vulgar way to use the pen.

    Although I defend their right to do it, doesn't mean I have to approve of it.

    Anyone who knows me will know I criticise Islam a great deal but I always avoid attacking or demeaning Muslims  and avoid gratuitious insults. I have never, for example participated in draw muhammad day.

    I defend others right to do so, but I certainly don't have to approve of it and while I defend their freedom to draw cartoons, I am a little concerned that the freedom to criticise them seems to be disapproved of by some and wrongly equated with making excuses for the terrorists, which of course it's not.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #218 - January 10, 2015, 12:34 PM

    'You draw a picture of my Muhammad looking like a fool.'

    'You have condemened both me and my children to eternal Hell-Fire.'

    Which is more offensive?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #219 - January 10, 2015, 12:57 PM

    'You draw a picture of my Muhammad looking like a fool.'

    'You have condemened both me and my children to eternal Hell-Fire.'

    Which is more offensive?



    The  latter of course!!

    But I don't understand your point?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #220 - January 10, 2015, 01:09 PM


    The  latter of course!!

    But I don't understand your point?


    Perhaps a little hypocrisy? "If I not allowed to draw Mohammed in a crass manner, you should not be able to say I am going to hell."

    I wonder the response if someone drew Mohammed burning in hell.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #221 - January 10, 2015, 01:26 PM

    well the fools at BBC do not know  that  "THERE WAS NO MUHAMMAD IN ISLAM" the only Prophet of Islam Pictures we have is from is pictures that are painted by TURKEYS AND MONEYS


    (Clicky for piccy!)

    The Prophet Mohammed in a Mosque. Turkey, 16th century, painting on paper.  The artist depicted Mohammed in very long sleeves so as to avoid showing his hands, though his neck and hints of his features are visible.

    (Clicky for piccy!)
     what is the story behind hiding Mo' s face in the paintings? Were they painted like that or were they ordered to be painted over or has the OP obscured the face for his/her own reasons??
    This is a miniature from Siyer-i Nebi, a Turkish religious biography of Mohammed completed in 1388 and later lavishly illustrated with 814 miniatures under the reign of Ottoman ruler Murad III, being completed in 1595. Many of the miniatures depict Mohammed, and this particular one shows Ali bin Abu Taleb beheading Nasr bin al-Hareth in the presence of Mohammed and his companions.

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Mohammed Splits the Moon. Illustration taken from a "Falnameh," a sixteenth century Persian book of prophesies

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Newly born Mohammed in his mother's arms being shown to his grandfather and Meccans. From a Turkish book illustration

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Persian miniature from the mid-1500s depicting Mohammed ascending to Paradise astride the miraculous horse Buraq, surrounded by angels. In Islamic lore, this event is called the "Miraj," or the Night Journey

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Mohammed at the Kaaba, supervising the removal of pagan idols, including Hubal, the chief diety of Mecca prior to Mohammed's introduction of Islam.

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    The Angel Gabriel cleansing Mohammed's heart of impurities in preparation for his ascent to heaven, while the other angels watch. From the 16th-century manuscript The Progress of the Prophet, from Turkey.


    Stupid fools scribbled something  some 1000 years ago, write nonsense around silly stories,   brain wash  brainless fools .. And in 21st century brutal rogues of Islam Murdering people on streets


    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #222 - January 10, 2015, 01:29 PM

    Perhaps a little hypocrisy? "If I not allowed to draw Mohammed in a crass manner, you should not be able to say I am going to hell."

    I wonder the response if someone drew Mohammed burning in hell.



    But I didn't say noone is allowed to draw Muhammad.

    I specifically said I defend their right to draw Muhammad.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #223 - January 10, 2015, 01:32 PM

    Yup.  Smiley
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #224 - January 10, 2015, 01:34 PM

    I also think the sort of satire published by hebdo is a vapid crass and vulgar way to use the pen.


    this article an interview with a Charlie Hebdo journalist by Karima Benounne may change your mind

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/karima-bennoune-caroline-fourest/support-right-to-make-fun-of-extremists-interview-with-carolin#.VLElnh7fiis.twitter

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #225 - January 10, 2015, 02:24 PM

    Brits:



    Also:



    Great article, thanks billy!

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #226 - January 10, 2015, 02:28 PM

    yep and Muslims are going to feel the heat now even more, because instead of fixing radical islamic militant  problems internally and taking care of it, they spent their time making conspiracy theories that its all a "CIA/Jewish plot to make Muslims look bad" nonsense.


    It is actually a Zionist Shia conspiracy
    Hezbollah Chief Nasrallah: Extremists Harm Islam More Than Cartoons

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #227 - January 10, 2015, 02:42 PM



    Good article. Nothing there I would disagree with.

    But I still find the type of satire in hebdo vulgar and crude and it is not the way I would personally choose to do things.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #228 - January 10, 2015, 02:47 PM

    I think some of it was vulgar and insensitive too, apparently there is one cartoon showing the girls abducted by boko haram asking when they can be allowed gov benefits..  As we all know jewish satire was used as a dangerous propoganda tool for centuries to spread hatred throughout europe but today is quite tolerated because they are now very successful people, no longer being persecuted living in ghettos or seen as vermin by the entire planet, racist jokes are better tolerated today because the race issue is being dealt with slowly and non whites are not suffering as much as they used to, so they can all afford to enjoy the odd joke or jibe, but the islamic world is a disaster on many levels,  muslim satire is a bit like kickin a man while he's down, i think all satirists should show a little sensitivity, although i am a fierce supporter of satire and freedom of expression a line has to be drawn somewhere atleast a little as some of it was distasteful.  I was involved in the process of making a gov backed magazine in malaysia with my ex years ago, the magazine was about to be created in saudi arabia too backed by their gov, my task was to create the puzzles and entertainment page, winners would get prizes etc, i couldn't resist and created some naughty images too that included men cross dressing wacko  they werent published, what a surprise lol..  such naivety  lol
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #229 - January 10, 2015, 02:51 PM

    Yeah, but a picture of Mohamad isn't the same as drawing a black man hanging from a tree eating a banana. For Joe Sacco to claim it is, is a ridiculous comparison. Mohamad is a historical figure, Muslims cannot claim copyright on his image, they cannot trademark his name. The fact that they are so offended is the reason why it's so important. This is even forgetting his life and biography. If some people viewed Hitler as sacred and were offended by depictions of him, would it suddenly be vulgar to draw him?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #230 - January 10, 2015, 02:54 PM

    Good article. Nothing there I would disagree with.

    But I still find the type of satire in hebdo vulgar and crude and it is not the way I would personally choose to do things.


    Well probably why they also only have a circulation of 45.000 copies in a country of 66 million.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #231 - January 10, 2015, 03:12 PM

    I also think the sort of satire published by hebdo is a vapid crass and vulgar way to use the pen.

    Although I defend their right to do it, doesn't mean I have to approve of it......


    That is the way it should be..

    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it..........Voltaire

    If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.............Noam Chomsky

    The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with....
    .........Eleanor Holmes Norton

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #232 - January 10, 2015, 03:24 PM

    Yeah, but a picture of Mohamad isn't the same as drawing a black man hanging from a tree eating a banana. For Joe Sacco to claim it is, is a ridiculous comparison. Mohamad is a historical figure, Muslims cannot claim copyright on his image, they cannot trademark his name. The fact that they are so offended is the reason why it's so important. This is even forgetting his life and biography. If some people viewed Hitler as sacred and were offended by depictions of him, would it suddenly be vulgar to draw him?


    I agree that his comparison with a black man hanging from a tree eating a banana is not the same as a Muhammad cartoon, though to be fair I think his point is that we all find some things that we personally find beyond the pale and that we all have lines we don't like to cross.

    btw Charlie Hebdo did actually draw a black French politician as a monkey.

    I'm a big fan of satire. Though I'm more used to the sort of satire we have in England with Private Eye and of course Monty Python, Yes Minister, Spitting Image etc... I was quite shocked by the extremes the French magazine goes to.

    I am only saying that I personally find the types of satire in the Charlie Hebdo magazine vulgar, crude and not something I would ever do.

    However: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

    And yes whether it was Hitler or whoever - it's not the "person" but the 'type' of crude vulgar satire that I do not approve of - but nevertheless I defend their right to do it.

    I remember when Maryam was asking for volunteers for the nude calendar. I supported her right to do that and understood why she was doing it and why she thought it would do some good. But personally it is not a form of protest that I think is particularly productive and certainly not something I would ever take part in.

    Similarly I support Aliaa Magda Elmahdy right to protest ISIS by appearing naked with another women on a black flag of ISIS with faeces and menstrual blood. But it is not a type of protest I personally approve of - while defending her right to do it.

    It concerns me a little that we are all expected to fall in line and not criticise the magazine - a sort of "You're either with us, or against us" dichotomy and that defending free speech is not enough - but you have to actually have to "agree with" and "like" every vulgar or crude article or cartoons that any idiot does.

    That I find very disturbing.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #233 - January 10, 2015, 04:06 PM

    I think some of it was vulgar and insensitive too, apparently there is one cartoon showing the girls abducted by boko haram asking when they can be allowed gov benefits.




    Read this

    Quote
    Jean-Baptiste Froment, toulousain

    This cover is mixing two unrelated elements which made the news at about the same time:
    - Boko Haram victims likely to end up sex slaves in Nigeria
    - Decrease of French welfare allocations

    In France, as in probably every country who has welfare allocations, some people criticize this system because some people might try to game it (e.g., "welfare queens" idea). Note that if we didn't had it there would probably be much more people complaining because the ones who really need it would end up in extreme poverty.

    Charlie Hebdo is known for being left-wing attached and very controversial, and I think they wanted to parody people who criticize "welfare queens" by taking this point-of-view to the absurd, to show that immigrant women in France are more likely to be victims of patriarchy than evil manipulative profiteers.

    And of course if we only stay on the first-degree approach, it's a terrible racist and absurd cover.

    As Adrien points out in his answer, it was neither the first nor the last time Charlie Hebdo used this kind of "satirical news mixing", and had no "preferred target".


    Quote
    Adrien Lucas Ecoffet, French citizen

    I can only confirm what Jean-Baptiste Froment and Stephen Reed's answers have been saying: it's easy now for non-French observers to imagine Charlie Hebdo as a right wing, racist, anti immigrant publication because of the fact that they have only seen covers about fundamentalist Islam.

    The reality is, Charlie Hebdo is a far left, pro-immigrant publication, of which many contributors have been members of anti-racist organizations.

    As the other answers have mentioned, this cover is simply the combination of two news stories to make a provocative joke. This is a very common occurrence in Charlie Hebdo front pages.


    Quote
    Government reshuffle: Can we show these images?
    The characters are the French prime minister (with a knife), and one minister whose job got... cut, in that specific reshuffle.

    As I mentioned in my answer to Attack on French Magazine Charlie Hebdo (January  2015): What should everyone know about Charlie Hebdo?, Charlie Hebdo came from a banned publication called Hara-Kiri. The front page that got Hara-Kiri banned was itself an example of news story combination:


    Quote
    Tragic ball in Colombey - 1 dead
    This refers to president de Gaulle's death in the city of Colombey, as well as the then-recent tragic incident during a ball in another French city in which 146 people died.

    Overall I don't think you should make much of this front page. Clearly people are cherry-picking Charlie Hebdo covers in an attempt to prove that it is a racist, anti-Islam publication, perhaps in some form of victim-blaming, when this assertion is absolutely preposterous to anyone who actually knows the newspaper.

    Incidentally, this particular issue was preceded and followed by anti-Le Pen front pages, Le Pen being the front figure of the French anti-immigration far right.


    Anther comment I found:
    Quote
    Adjowa Fuji Deva:
    And I call bs on this. I am french, black with far left inclinasion and I can say without a doubt that Charlie is a great publication who always attack bigots of all kind.
    Sorry but the op is propaganda. France is a racist country and Charlie was calling it out all the time.


    (Adjowa is female. Charlie Hedbo is being accused of hating those as well)



    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #234 - January 10, 2015, 04:41 PM

    Oh that's right! It's the WHITE MANS fault...again! I knew that all my taxi driver friends were right!  Tongue

    We puke and fornicate in their cars.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #235 - January 10, 2015, 05:25 PM

    Can you blame this guy for what he says?

    Can you deny him the right to define what Islam is to him - regardless?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8DQHdnA51M
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #236 - January 10, 2015, 05:27 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjGbCxxJHs
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #237 - January 10, 2015, 06:37 PM

    Can you blame this guy for what he says?

    Can you deny him the right to define what Islam is to him - regardless?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8DQHdnA51M


    No, of course not. It just proves that Salafi Jihadis are at war with everyone including Muslims

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #238 - January 10, 2015, 07:24 PM

    And that thankfully not all Muslims read the texts and have other sources for their morality.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #239 - January 10, 2015, 07:37 PM

    And that thankfully not all Muslims read the texts and have other sources for their morality.

    A Readers Digest Koran would be an idea. Keep only the cuddly verses and strip them of wearying context.
  • Previous page 1 ... 6 7 89 10 ... 20 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »