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Theme Changer

 Topic: What type of muslim were you?

 (Read 13638 times)
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  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #90 - June 16, 2016, 01:51 PM

    I know. Trust me, I spent years studying the subject. I don't believe the anthropomorphism in the Qur'an needs to be taken literally. Nor do I think any parts of the book should be taken literally.


    naturally...
    however i believe that it was the opinion or inclination perhaps of one of the earlier respondents that we should take it literally,

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #91 - June 16, 2016, 01:52 PM

    Nooooooooo.   I was NOT talking about you ElRafa ., I was talking about those fools who wrote all those so called religious books of all religions for all faith heads...

    This calling ....allah/god/whatever  as " He" the male species" is there in every faith book


    The raghead fools who i blindly submit my meagre intellect to?

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #92 - June 16, 2016, 01:56 PM

    naturally...
    however i believe that it was the opinion or inclination perhaps of one of the earlier respondents that we should take it literally,


    That is the problem of claiming that God communicates using the limitations of human speech. You end up sounding not very much unlike the very people you consider to be polytheists, for example Hindus, who would tell you that the rock and wood of their idols is not god in and of themselves.

    Gods have always been concepts – ideals, values, mysteries, fears, things we don’t fully grasp –  projections of the human psyche, symbolized either through carvings, drawings, images, or in the case of Allah, words.
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #93 - June 16, 2016, 02:04 PM

    That is the problem of claiming that God communicates using the limitations of human speech. You end up sounding not very much unlike the very people you consider to be polytheists, for example Hindus, who would tell you that the rock and wood of their idols is not god in and of themselves.

    Gods have always been concepts – ideals, values, mysteries, fears, things we don’t fully grasp –  projections of the human psyche, symbolized either through carvings, drawings, images, or in the case of Allah, words.


    that's why i believe all religions are respective to the time and culture into which the revelation came down,
    Allah swt sent prophets to all people, 124000,
    its possible buddha, confucius, krishna and masters of all traditions are derived from divinity, simply manifesting in their own unique languages, colours and cultures,

    we're all intended to grasp the one we're called towards

    He is making himself accessible to us

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #94 - June 16, 2016, 02:12 PM

    Except that this is not the approach that the Qur’an takes. The Qur’an lambasts the manifestations of spirituality that other cultures have evolved and threatens with violence, both in this world and the next, those who do not comply with its specific method of experiencing the divine.
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #95 - June 16, 2016, 02:15 PM

    The raghead fools  who i blindly submit my meagre intellect  to?


    well that is your opinion and you are partially wrong and I cross those words which I think are wrong .,  And If by chance you blindly submitted/submit  WITHOUT QUESTIONING  what rag-head fools said/saying..   I agree that there is a problem  but I am of the opinion that you will come out of that blind following mode of rag head fools ElRafa.,

    As far as intellect is concerned ., it is a very relative word., and the only way to improve the existence of intellect in an individual  is   " learning themselves"  by questioning everything on what they believe.  And.....and  one must realize that  however  good the concept may be there will be always room to improve it  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #96 - June 16, 2016, 02:21 PM

    Except that this is not the approach that the Qur’an takes. The Qur’an lambasts the manifestations of spirituality that other cultures have evolved and threatens, with violence both in this world and the next, those who do not comply with its specific method of experiencing the divine.


    not necessarily,
    if you're talking about polytheism, then islam is quite clear,
    divine unity and tawhid are the core principles

    as for ahlul kitab, the Islam acknowledges that there are righteous people from among them,
    and that clarity between truth and falsehood, or a failure to seek a means of discerning this,
    is a prerequisite for divine retribution

    also how Allah swt has measured everything out perfectly whilst many haven't received the full revelation of Islam, naturally one must deduce from this that Allah in his infinite wisdom created some individuals deliberately to fit the intricate mosaic of existence outside the frame of islam

    well established islamic principles also include
    - those to whom no message came or to those whom rational proofs were not established will not be punished on this basis alone
    - no soul can be charged beyond its capacity
    - anyone with an atoms weight of faith is eligible for divine intercession and mercy.
    - actions are judged according to intentions

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #97 - June 16, 2016, 02:22 PM

    well that is your opinion and you are partially wrong and I cross those words which I think are wrong .,  And If by chance you blindly submitted/submit  WITHOUT QUESTIONING  what rag-head fools said/saying..   I agree that there is a problem  but I am of the opinion that you will come out of that blind following mode of rag head fools ElRafa.,

    As far as intellect is concerned ., it is a very relative word., and the only way to improve the existence of intellect in an individual  is   " learning themselves"  by questioning everything on what they believe.  And.....and  one must realize that  however  good the concept may there will be always room to improve it  


    i wonder, do you believe disbelief to be a higher state of understanding or level of being than belief indefinitely?

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #98 - June 16, 2016, 02:29 PM

    i wonder, do you believe disbelief to be a higher state of understanding or level of being than belief indefinitely?

    No I don't believe that .,  Again  what I am saying is .,whatever is your belief and however good it may be., ,THERE WILL BE ALWAYS BIT ROOM TO IMPROVE IT.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #99 - June 16, 2016, 02:33 PM

    i thought you were a skeptic, the whole.. i don't know it but i know its not worth my time attitude is problematic for someone who id imagine claims an insight into the world which many others dont have
    (perhaps im mistaking you for another poster, forgive me if thats the case)


    We all have insights into the world that are unique. We don't need to be a prophet, mujaddid, or whatever other title you'd like to elevate your heroes with in order to have claim to that.

    Regardless, although you might be mistaking me for another poster, I do have to say that it doesn't bode well for your chosen ideological source that you can't even begin to communicate the essence of it for me short of just telling me to read some giant series of commentaries and text totaling over a thousand pages. Grin

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #100 - June 16, 2016, 02:38 PM

    We all have insights into the world that are unique. We don't need to be a prophet, mujaddid, or whatever other title you'd like to elevate your heroes with in order to have claim to that.

    Regardless, although you might be mistaking me for another poster, I do have to say that it doesn't bode well for your chosen ideological source that you can't even begin to communicate the essence of it for me short of just telling me to read some giant series of commentaries and text totaling over thousands of pages. Grin


    of course i can provide a summary, and i thought i did
    as an unlearned muslim however i am always aware of my limitations in knowledge and would rather refer you to experts in the field into which you sought enquiry...

    and i disagree, true enlightenment and spiritual knowledge does not flow naturally into anyone,
    do you really believe that?

    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #101 - June 16, 2016, 02:48 PM

    Quote
    not necessarily,
    if you're talking about polytheism, then islam is quite clear,
    divine unity and tawhid are the core principles


    What religions have you studied apart from Islam?

    I simply ask because I wonder if we are speaking the same language here. I doubt we are.

    I view religion as a natural phenomenon, a part of our human evolution and development. Prior to the development of organized religion, animism – the attribution of spirits to non-human entities like plants, mountains, animals, etc. – was quite prevalent. It is still prevalent amongst some indigenous tribal peoples as a very natural way of navigating their world.

    Polytheism, as a broad term, representing essentially an extension of animism, is a very natural next step in this process. The point that is worth calling out here is that the idea of many gods, or many divine entities,  appears to be a fairly normal thing across cultures. Again, this would be a normal and very human way of experiencing the world. It's also worth calling out here as well that this would represent the majority of human existence from a timescale perspective.

    Monotheism begins not necessarily with YHWH, but with the consolidation of the powers of the gods into specific supreme gods. Enter Sun gods, Moon gods, Sea gods, etc. As the correlation between gods and power begins to develop as humans gather into civilizations and societies, a priestly class begins to emerge whose sole purpose is to “interpret the will of the gods” and exert power over the masses in accordance with this “will.”

    This again, becomes evident across multiple cultures and civilizations, from the Mayans to the Egyptians. To consolidate the Gods was to consolidate power. Akhenaten,  the first “monotheistic” Egyptian pharaoh, is a perfect example of this. By eliminating the Egyptian gods and focusing on one deity, with whom only he himself could communicate, he assured his absolute control over society.

    Quote
    the pharaoh "disbanded the priesthoods of all the other gods...and diverted the income from these [other] cults to support the Aten". To emphasize his complete allegiance to the Aten, the king officially changed his name from Amenhotep IV to Akhenaten or 'Living Spirit of Aten.'


    It is no wonder, then, that after his death, the class of priests that he had disenfranchised sought to undo what he had done and reinstate the gods of Egypt.

    The fact that prophets and kings began capitalizing on this monopoly they could claim with a particular deity, and the fact that they would decry and denounce other deities as “false” in the strongest terms would not be a surprising development as human empires emerge. Not to sound too Game of Thrones right now, but the crown and the faith have always gone hand in hand.

    Generally speaking, what I believe we are seeing in the Muslim world today is essentially the theology of a collapsed empire struggling to figure out what its place in the world will be. Will Allah go the way of Zeus, Baal, and Aten? I don’t know. He is a fairly new development and a fairly recent way of reflecting human spirituality.

    In short, yes, spirituality is a very natural, human thing. It has helped us navigate our world in numerous beneficial ways. It has helped us to organize, given us a sense of purpose and identity, and helped us to cope with the world in which we find ourselves.

    Because I enjoy a bit of mystery myself, I’m open to the idea that beneath all of the different ways that humans have manifested their spirituality over the ages, there might actually be some underlying force that unites it all. I might even go as far as to call that God if I was in the right mood. But we must admit we have no way of wrapping our heads around it, let alone any way of proving it.
  • What type of muslim were you?
     Reply #102 - June 19, 2016, 03:39 PM

    A pretty strict sunni. I was very anti western at one point.
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