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 Topic: (Ex)Muslim dating

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  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     OP - June 30, 2016, 02:23 PM
    So I made a pet peeve topic before and one of those that I didn't list was dating whilst growing up in a Muslim household.

    But I suppose that deserves it's own topic which I've made.

    So growing up naturally having a gf was not a thing! And as an impressionable, gullible, naive child you only interpret that as one way; "I can't talk to girls at all". Like no exceptions.

    So basically growing through the education system, primary, secondary and even college I did that. It was finally at the uni level (mostly outside on university however) that I actually became okay with the notion of talking to women and not feeling paranoid or insecure.

    I can't say guilt was ever an obstacle for me although the first few months of my life watching porn and masturbating was marred with guilt. It seemed after every orgasm I felt this incredible sense of shame, as if I had let my parents down and more importantly; God.

    So if doing something by myself, in the confines of my private space was making me feel guilty you can only imagine what sex could have done to me.

    Suffice to say I didn't have my first kiss until 22. She was a Muslim girl also and it was great and I felt no guilt whatsoever. Unfortunately she didn't feel the same way and eventually it didn't end up working out. I never understood the idea of just meeting someone for the purpose of marriage and immediately taking steps towards it. Surely you should get to know them first? Perhaps even have sex, you could learnt a lot from a person's level of intimacy. How do you know you would want to live with someone based off of them being on their best behaviour i.e. a date?

    I did learn a lot from her. She would tell me about Muslim girls feeling under-pressure because of the loosing battle against photoshop and porn. Men. including muslims, were becoming increasingly desensitised by all this stimuli and they felt they now had to go the extra mile by dressing up and putting themselves in compromising positions for example.

    I can't help but feel if there was a more open and liberal space for engaging with females, even non-sexually, certainly if there were no "haram" boundaries put up; I would be a lot better with talking to women than I am today. Now I'm not a complete social moron mind you and I'm certainly not incapable of connecting to someone, but I find it's getting harder and harder the longer I put it off.

    One of my biggest wants (or maybe regrets) is that I never had a high-school sweetheart. Even though looking back there wasn't even anyone I would consider being with, whatever happens, happens I suppose. But I still feel like I missed out on a lot, or maybe that;s just the movies. But maybe that person could have been the one as well.

    I really don't ever want  to resort to an arranged marriage. But it's becoming more and more of reality as my social inhibitions and awkwardness are not exactly going give way anytime soon. And I'm certainly not getting any younger.

    My question is, how the hell do people like us find others? We're ex-muslims! The majority of us here anyway. Ye I still feel like I will marry a muslim woman (which I'm okay with) and I just pray she isn't religious, because there's not much as way of finding an ex-muslim that is on the same wavelength. There certainly isn't a singlexmuslim.com lol...

    Discuss!

     
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #1 - June 30, 2016, 02:57 PM
    sports clubs, other extracurricular activities, various hobbies and so on.
    There are plenty of possibilities, and you should aim for something that interests you and has a sensible gender distribution (and is not run by moslems).

    Isn't it fantastic that people will make their children socially handicapped?
    (but it makes them easy to control!)
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #2 - June 30, 2016, 03:21 PM
    Quote
    I can't help but feel if there was a more open and liberal space for engaging with females, even non-sexually, certainly if there were no "haram" boundaries put up; I would be a lot better with talking to women than I am today.


    ^^ this!!! if only.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #3 - June 30, 2016, 03:23 PM
    @hsnake It probably difficult the find Ex Muslims, but, from what I have heard about singlemuslim.com there is a lot of non religious Muslims on there who are open to different types of relationships. Some of my friends, started off using it to look for a wife, and ended up realising that many woman only want sex, which converted to them to start pursuing only sexual relationships on the site.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #4 - June 30, 2016, 05:33 PM
    Quote from: SilentMancunian on June 30, 2016, 03:23 PM
    @hsnake It probably difficult the find Ex Muslims, but, from what I have heard about singlemuslim.com there is a lot of non religious Muslims on there who are open to different types of relationships. Some of my friends, started off using it to look for a wife, and ended up realising that many woman only want sex, which converted to them to start pursuing only sexual relationships on the site.


    That's quite interesting but they may be few and far between. And I don't think it's the best policy to go on singlemuslim.com to look for sex lmao.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #5 - June 30, 2016, 06:19 PM
    The older I get (getting real old) the more I get sick of ducking and hiding. Everything is a challenge when you're a Muslim, but it can also be more challenging when you're an ex-Muslim.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #6 - July 01, 2016, 03:50 PM
    Hsnake, why in particular do you find it important to date fellow ex-Muslims? Like I can definitely see the appeal if it does happen, but as you've mentioned there are a lot of difficulties for even one ex-Muslim to have a relationship, let alone two. Grin

    Basically, in one's own development in relationships, with the opposite sex or otherwise, wouldn't it be a good idea to take advantage of the fact that there's a whole world full of men and women out there to connect and share experience with?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #7 - July 01, 2016, 04:01 PM
    Quote from: Hsnake on June 30, 2016, 02:23 PM
    ...................
    ..........Suffice to say I didn't have my first kiss until 22. She was a Muslim girl also and it was great and I felt no guilt whatsoever. Unfortunately she didn't feel the same way and eventually it didn't end up working out............

    ......I did learn a lot from her. She would tell me about Muslim girls feeling under-pressure because of the loosing battle against photoshop and porn...........

    My question is, how the hell do people like us find others? We're ex-muslims! The majority of us here anyway. Ye I still feel like I will marry a muslim woman (which I'm okay with) and I just pray she isn't religious, because there's not much as way of finding an ex-muslim that is on the same wavelength. There certainly isn't a singlexmuslim.com lol... .
    .

    Now I'm not a complete social moron ............

    Discuss!

    Snake., we will give you suggestion but you tell us the truth first ..

    You are NOT a social moron.,  

    but are you real Moron?   or do you act like a moron some times?
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #8 - July 01, 2016, 10:05 PM
    Quote from: asbie on July 01, 2016, 03:50 PM
    Hsnake, why in particular do you find it important to date fellow ex-Muslims? Like I can definitely see the appeal if it does happen, but as you've mentioned there are a lot of difficulties for even one ex-Muslim to have a relationship, let alone two. Grin

    Basically, in one's own development in relationships, with the opposite sex or otherwise, wouldn't it be a good idea to take advantage of the fact that there's a whole world full of men and women out there to connect and share experience with?


    Because it's easier with the family. And an ex-muslim can provide that illusion lol.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #9 - July 02, 2016, 01:37 AM
    Eh.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #10 - July 02, 2016, 01:58 AM
    Eh indeed, lol. Dating an ex-Muslim is a bad idea. Imagine all of your baggage x2.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #11 - July 02, 2016, 12:05 PM
    Well I don't plan to kill my ties with my family. They're supportive and moderate thankfully. Me coming out as an apostate does little to make things better for me, things are fine as they are now I'm not limited in what I do.

    So I guess with marriage it would be better if I chose a candidate that was liked by them. But reconciling what they like i.e. good muslim girl with what I like i.e. I'm not too sure, is going to be quiet problematic!
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #12 - July 02, 2016, 01:36 PM
    Quote from: Hsnake on July 02, 2016, 12:05 PM
    Well I don't plan to kill my ties with my family. They're supportive and moderate thankfully. Me coming out as an apostate does little to make things better for me, things are fine as they are now I'm not limited in what I do.

    So I guess with marriage it would be better if I chose a candidate that was liked by them. But reconciling what they like i.e. good muslim girl with what I like i.e. I'm not too sure, is going to be quiet problematic!


    I know where your coming from, but I have to say it is highly idealistic and a difficult thing to achieve.

    I've been considering the same thing for a couple of years, my situation is a bit more complicated since there is a stronger religious element to it. The idea of trying to appease my parents, and potential in-laws, while living a lie just doesn't seem like it can be maintained in the long run.

    Finding an Ex Muslim to marry will be difficult in and of itself, but finding one without additional baggage will be extremely difficult. There is definitely a lot of Muslim women out there who are not religious and who probably come from families who are as moderate as your own, but even then, when getting into a relationship where you are expected to live up to certain standards can be quite stressful and can lead to a lot complications in the future.

    You mentioned in your intro that you have older siblings, are they married and what was it like for them? Arrange marriage or Love marriage?

    Growing up in Desi culture can add further complications to marriage, is there any other expectations that your parents might have, like being of the same ethnic background or being able to speak their mother tongue so that she speak to your relatives back home? lol
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #13 - July 02, 2016, 01:39 PM
    Quote from: Absurdist on July 02, 2016, 01:58 AM
    Eh indeed, lol. Dating an ex-Muslim is a bad idea. Imagine all of your baggage x2.


    It can be harder, sure. But I don't know about bad idea. Every human has baggage, it's unavoidable. If that's our criteria, we might as well avoid dating period.

    My only suggestion to the OP was that he not limit himself in such a way, although I can also see where your view comes from.  Smiley
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #14 - July 02, 2016, 03:04 PM
    I wasn't saying you need to find someone without any baggage, rather that you need to find someone who complements you and not mirrors your own baggage. It's better to have someone you can exchange baggage with, so to speak.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #15 - July 02, 2016, 03:40 PM
    This is quite an interesting thread, i've had the exact parallel scenario.
    As a convert from a family of staunchly feminist, secular democratic socialists , i've been raised and taught all my life to look women in the eye when i speak to them, smile, and not to generally behave any differently to how i would with guys besides the reduction of banter and swearing. I did have a girlfriend for a while, I had girl-friends most of my life
    but
    All of a sudden i'm told that i'm not supposed to make eye contact with women, let alone converse extensively, spend time with or date prospective women,

    More importantly i've always felt love to be a natural pre-requisite for marriage,

    im curious,
    How do ex muslims go about approaching this? Do you still incline towards your thoughts on marriage derived from your upbringing? Do many of you adapt quickly to western style boyfriend/girlfriend relationships? I wonder if any of you still feel guilt or shame about physical relationships or whether its a seamless adjustment?
    Mine certainly has not been
    Raise your words, not voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #16 - July 02, 2016, 06:25 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on July 02, 2016, 03:40 PM
    This is quite an interesting thread, i've had the exact parallel scenario.
    As a convert from a family of staunchly feminist, secular democratic socialists , i've been raised and taught all my life to look women in the eye when i speak to them, smile, and not to generally behave any differently to how i would with guys besides the reduction of banter and swearing. I did have a girlfriend for a while, I had girl-friends most of my life
    but
    All of a sudden i'm told that i'm not supposed to make eye contact with women, let alone converse extensively, spend time with or date prospective women,

    More importantly i've always felt love to be a natural pre-requisite for marriage,

    im curious,
    How do ex muslims go about approaching this? Do you still incline towards your thoughts on marriage derived from your upbringing? Do many of you adapt quickly to western style boyfriend/girlfriend relationships? I wonder if any of you still feel guilt or shame about physical relationships or whether its a seamless adjustment?
    Mine certainly has not been


    Well I certainly can't say because I haven't had any long term relationships. You certainly can't hide for that long.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #17 - July 02, 2016, 06:44 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 01, 2016, 04:01 PM
    Snake., we will give you suggestion but you tell us the truth first ..

    You are NOT a social moron.,  

    but are you real Moron?   or do you act like a moron some times?


    Yeeze your fonts always fuck me up.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #18 - July 02, 2016, 06:46 PM
    Quote from: SilentMancunian on July 02, 2016, 01:36 PM
    I know where your coming from, but I have to say it is highly idealistic and a difficult thing to achieve.

    I've been considering the same thing for a couple of years, my situation is a bit more complicated since there is a stronger religious element to it. The idea of trying to appease my parents, and potential in-laws, while living a lie just doesn't seem like it can be maintained in the long run.

    Finding an Ex Muslim to marry will be difficult in and of itself, but finding one without additional baggage will be extremely difficult. There is definitely a lot of Muslim women out there who are not religious and who probably come from families who are as moderate as your own, but even then, when getting into a relationship where you are expected to live up to certain standards can be quite stressful and can lead to a lot complications in the future.

    You mentioned in your intro that you have older siblings, are they married and what was it like for them? Arrange marriage or Love marriage?

    Growing up in Desi culture can add further complications to marriage, is there any other expectations that your parents might have, like being of the same ethnic background or being able to speak their mother tongue so that she speak to your relatives back home? lol


    Of course. Same background expectations as standard. Though we're not punjabi and my brother married a punjab. And my sister an Indian man even though my mum is pakistani. So there's slight ethnic wriggling room lol...
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #19 - July 02, 2016, 07:52 PM
    So, if you brought home a white girl, what do you think the likely scenario will be:
    • Would they ship you off for a shot-gun wedding in a Pakistani village with a 'Proper Pakistani' Muslim woman who can make round chapatis/li]
      Or
      • Would they grow to embrace her on the condition that she converts to Islam
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #20 - July 02, 2016, 07:58 PM
    Most likely the latter. They certainly won't ship me anywhere it's not our style and we don't have much connections rooted abroad,

    But my father would much rather he found me my wife. I would rather he not lol. It's not really on the agenda right now anyway.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #21 - July 02, 2016, 07:58 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on July 02, 2016, 03:40 PM

    How do ex muslims go about approaching this? Do you still incline towards your thoughts on marriage derived from your upbringing? Do many of you adapt quickly to western style boyfriend/girlfriend relationships? I wonder if any of you still feel guilt or shame about physical relationships or whether its a seamless adjustment?
    Mine certainly has not been


    I have been completely unable to adapt to Western dating, so I don't do it. I tried.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #22 - July 02, 2016, 08:03 PM
    Quote from: three on July 02, 2016, 07:58 PM
    I have been completely unable to adapt to Western dating, so I don't do it. I tried.


    So what do you do?
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #23 - July 02, 2016, 08:04 PM
    Isn't there a platform for Indian-Dating in UK?

    Maybe http://www.mingleguru.co.uk/
    I don't know if you have to pay for it.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #24 - July 02, 2016, 08:36 PM
    Quote from: Hsnake on July 02, 2016, 07:58 PM
    Most likely the latter. They certainly won't ship me anywhere it's not our style and we don't have much connections rooted abroad,

    But my father would much rather he found me my wife. I would rather he not lol. It's not really on the agenda right now anyway.


    That's good to know. If I isn't on the agenda at least you got some time to find someone yourself.

    Dating apps/website seem to be the best option for finding someone yourself. It's becoming more acceptable among the Desi communities, so give it a shot if you haven't.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #25 - July 02, 2016, 08:39 PM
    Quote from: Hsnake on July 02, 2016, 08:03 PM
    So what do you do?


    I don't. Like I said. I mind my own business and let everyone else mind theirs.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #26 - July 02, 2016, 09:13 PM
    Quote from: ElToro on July 02, 2016, 08:04 PM
    Isn't there a platform for Indian-Dating in UK?

    Maybe http://www.mingleguru.co.uk/
    I don't know if you have to pay for it.


    That's only for Sikhs and Hindus I think ElToro thanks though.

    Yeah I've tried the apps and sites. Seems to be a waste of time mostly. I guess I have to cross my fingers and hope that I have a cosmic chance of coincidentally meeting someone.
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #27 - July 02, 2016, 09:16 PM
    You will find someone, don't stress yourself too much Afro
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #28 - July 02, 2016, 10:51 PM
    Quote from: Absurdist on July 02, 2016, 03:04 PM
    I wasn't saying you need to find someone without any baggage, rather that you need to find someone who complements you and not mirrors your own baggage. It's better to have someone you can exchange baggage with, so to speak.


    Oh I like to exchange a bit more than just baggage, if you catch my drift.  Wink
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • (Ex)Muslim dating
     Reply #29 - July 02, 2016, 11:10 PM
    Quote from: ElRafa on July 02, 2016, 03:40 PM
    This is quite an interesting thread, i've had the exact parallel scenario.
    As a convert from a family of staunchly feminist, secular democratic socialists , i've been raised and taught all my life to look women in the eye when i speak to them, smile, and not to generally behave any differently to how i would with guys besides the reduction of banter and swearing. I did have a girlfriend for a while, I had girl-friends most of my life
    but
    All of a sudden i'm told that i'm not supposed to make eye contact with women, let alone converse extensively, spend time with or date prospective women,

    More importantly i've always felt love to be a natural pre-requisite for marriage,

    im curious,
    How do ex muslims go about approaching this? Do you still incline towards your thoughts on marriage derived from your upbringing? Do many of you adapt quickly to western style boyfriend/girlfriend relationships? I wonder if any of you still feel guilt or shame about physical relationships or whether its a seamless adjustment?
    Mine certainly has not been


    Well for me, while it hasn't been seamless, I think my own exposure and mindset growing up in and amongst Western society, and raised by a relatively moderate family has helped make it better. Mind you, I still haven't informed my parents of my previous dating experience, although they do know that I have a number of female friends, and in my mom's case even my love interest.

    However, there's still going to be a bit of awkwardness, doubts, and insecurities about it, at least for me. It's something you really can't know as much about until you actually experience it, and it is a cultural shift.

    More about my own experience and those of others in this rather relevant thread, which also has a female equivalent too:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=20254.0
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=20267.msg578204#msg578204
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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