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 Topic: How well do you know Islam?

 (Read 29002 times)
  • 12 3 ... 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • How well do you know Islam?
     OP - November 01, 2008, 07:23 AM
    Something I've been impressed with here (one of many things, by the way) is that ex-Muslims seem to have known their faith and its scriptures well before deciding to reject it.

    I belong to a couple of atheist forums where members are predominently ex-Christian, and it's fair to say that a good number gave up on their 'faith' after having taken time to study its structure, teachings and Bible.

    Ex-Muslims and ex-Christians, in other words, share common ground in that they do tend to know what they're talking about.

    Constantly, though, the main grouse when atheists try to debate a practicing, devout Christian is that the Christian invariably has not even read the scripture upon which his ideas are supposedly founded and studied its inconsistencies, contradictions and downright inaccuracies, let alone looked at the history of their religion in any meaningful way. Their entire, shallow religious outlook is based on laziness -- the acceptance of what they hear once a week from a pulpit somewhere.

    You can lead a Christian to a library, but you can't make him read.

    Is this also the case in Islam, or am I under the wrong impression in assuming that most practicing Muslims at least know their scriptures and their various interpretations and, therefore, can claim a more solid basis in personal knowledge for their beliefs?

    Happy weekend. Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #1 - November 01, 2008, 05:18 PM
    I know more muslims who haven't read the Quran than ones who have.  I usually go into a conversation on the premise that they haven't a clue what I am about to show them, it always surprises me to run across one who has looked, who does know, but has started to do mental gymnastics to forget what they now know or accept.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #2 - November 01, 2008, 05:51 PM
    That's an eye-opener, BerberElla. Many thanks. I must chew this over. I'd assumed that Muslims were word-perfect in their scriptures. As I said when you invite me to get involved ... I've got a lot to learn. Hoots. Neil
    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #3 - November 01, 2008, 06:22 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 01, 2008, 07:23 AM
    Ex-Muslims and ex-Christians, in other words, share common ground in that they do tend to know what they're talking about.


    I tend to agree. Many people who are believers have little or not at all idea what they in fact believe in. They keep their Bibles/Qurans/whatever on shelves and never look into them. Instead, all they known about their own faiths comes from what they are told in their nearby church/mosque/whatever.

    Retrospectively looking, when I was a Christian I had very vague idea what hides inside the Bible. When I found it out, I was amazed that anyone actually believes in this stuff.
    No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #4 - November 01, 2008, 07:05 PM
    Me too. church 3 times on sundays, morning service with  communion, sunday school, evening service, mid-week choir practice, mid-week saints day communions, morning prayers at school, bible readings. Head choir boy, server at communion, cross bearer, etc. Apart  from the densely impenetrable biblical readings it was the priest who did the 'interpretation', eg explained the party-line.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #5 - November 02, 2008, 12:13 AM
    And I'm accused by my dad for not knowing or reading enough about Islam.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #6 - November 02, 2008, 12:49 AM
    I was working on this reply (saved it as a draft) before any others were posted. My experience is different.

    Quote from: neilmarr on November 01, 2008, 07:23 AM
    You can lead a Christian to a library, but you can't make him read.

    Great line Cheesy

    Quote from: neilmarr
    Is this also the case in Islam, or am I under the wrong impression in assuming that most practicing Muslims at least know their scriptures and their various interpretations and, therefore, can claim a more solid basis in personal knowledge for their beliefs?

    In my experience, Islam is a knowledge based religion, like Orthodox Judaism. One has to read the books to be able to practice. Of course there are those that don't (many now), and just follow along with what everyone else is doing. But to me, Islam doesn't have as many glaring contradictions as Christianity does (if one accepts the possibilty of miracles), Muhammad and friends tied everything up nicely. If something from the Qur'an differs from the Bible or other Jewish books, the Qur'an is correct and those books have been corrupted. If there seems to be a contradiction in the Qur'an, it is not a contradiction, an explanation can be found, or one side has been abrogated and the other is the truth. If something seems off in a hadith, it is considered weak or fabricated. And on and on...
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #7 - November 02, 2008, 08:15 AM
    Thanks, Awais. Of course the job was easier for Islam. They were running a simple edit rather than being bogged down in a complicated work-in-progress. Neil
    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #8 - November 03, 2008, 04:24 PM
    Interesting thread. I agree that many, if not most muslims, dont know the religion particulary well. I think if anybody finds themselves in a comfort zone, they are very unlikely to challenege it.

    That said, many Muslims who DO know the religion, know it in quite astonishing detail. I have student freinds in their early 20s who can recite and quote the quran verbatim - extract ruilings from it, and cite scholarly opinions. This is a unique phenomoneon amongst muslim youth that I am yet to see in youth of other religions.

     
    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #9 - November 03, 2008, 04:38 PM
    Quote from: Hassan1 on November 03, 2008, 04:24 PM
    Interesting thread. I agree that many, if not most muslims, dont know the religion particulary well. I think if anybody finds themselves in a comfort zone, they are very unlikely to challenege it.

    That said, many Muslims who DO know the religion, know it in quite astonishing detail. I have student freinds in their early 20s who can recite and quote the quran verbatim - extract ruilings from it, and cite scholarly opinions. This is a unique phenomoneon amongst muslim youth that I am yet to see in youth of other religions.

     


    Could be because they can quote verbatim the philosophy books, or more up to date stuff.  Could be they have worked past the need to dedicate themselves to learning the ins and outs of dead and buried, or should be dead and buried belief systems.

     Wink
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #10 - November 03, 2008, 04:42 PM
    I am doing bit of generalization here. But, I could notice a pattern that Youth from U.K. comparitively knows a great deal about Islam as compared to Sub continent youth.
    In UK, the tone of some Muslim youth is 'to go back to Islam and leave the culture behind' Where as subcontinent youth remembers Islam only while Ramadhan etc.  

    Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

    Quote from: Hassan1 on November 03, 2008, 04:24 PM
    Interesting thread. I agree that many, if not most muslims, dont know the religion particulary well. I think if anybody finds themselves in a comfort zone, they are very unlikely to challenege it.

    That said, many Muslims who DO know the religion, know it in quite astonishing detail. I have student freinds in their early 20s who can recite and quote the quran verbatim - extract ruilings from it, and cite scholarly opinions. This is a unique phenomoneon amongst muslim youth that I am yet to see in youth of other religions.

     

  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #11 - November 03, 2008, 04:45 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 04:42 PM
    I am doing bit of generalization here. But, I could notice a pattern that Youth from U.K. comparitively knows a great deal about Islam as compared to Sub continent youth.
    In UK, the tone of some Muslim youth is 'to go back to Islam and leave the culture behind' Where as subcontinent youth remembers Islam only while Ramadhan etc.  

    Someone can correct me if I am wrong.




    I find much the same in Morocco, the moroccan youth of the UK are more interested in religion than their moroccan counterparts.

    I think it's because over here (UK) they are less in touch with their cultural heritage so go seeking the connections that are so readily available back home.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #12 - November 03, 2008, 04:45 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 04:42 PM
    I am doing bit of generalization here. But, I could notice a pattern that Youth from U.K. comparitively knows a great deal about Islam as compared to Sub continent youth.
    In UK, the tone of some Muslim youth is 'to go back to Islam and leave the culture behind' Where as subcontinent youth remembers Islam only while Ramadhan etc.  

    Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

    Quote from: Hassan1 on November 03, 2008, 04:24 PM
    Interesting thread. I agree that many, if not most muslims, dont know the religion particulary well. I think if anybody finds themselves in a comfort zone, they are very unlikely to challenege it.

    That said, many Muslims who DO know the religion, know it in quite astonishing detail. I have student freinds in their early 20s who can recite and quote the quran verbatim - extract ruilings from it, and cite scholarly opinions. This is a unique phenomoneon amongst muslim youth that I am yet to see in youth of other religions.

     



    I doubt you are wrong. I see this in my own community too and any other community for that matter. I dont know what it is but im more religious than a few of my cousins back in Punjab.

    I reckon its because we've been separated from our roots and want to be unique in other countries.

    Might be.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #13 - November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    This is becoming very interesting. You seem to be saying that religion is a last identifying refuge when national, cultural or even family bonds threaten to come loose. If we must find a substitute for traditional ties, I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil
    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #14 - November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    Yah, I see that too here in the states. "Forget how they do it 'back home', do it how Rasool Allah and the salaf as-saalih did!" is how it goes in the khutbahs at the masjid.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #15 - November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #16 - November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #17 - November 03, 2008, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot


    That was his joke
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #18 - November 03, 2008, 05:20 PM
    OK, my bad  lipsrsealed

    Quote from: MSinghK on November 03, 2008, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot


    That was his joke

  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #19 - November 03, 2008, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    This is becoming very interesting. You seem to be saying that religion is a last identifying refuge when national, cultural or even family bonds threaten to come loose. If we must find a substitute for traditional ties, I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Religion is fine. I encourage it in my friends even if they're Christian or Muslim or whatever. Their ties to their culture and family dont really come loose either. Culture and religion gets stronger.

    Best way.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #20 - November 03, 2008, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:20 PM
    OK, my bad  lipsrsealed

    Quote from: MSinghK on November 03, 2008, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot


    That was his joke



     lipsrsealed for me too
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #21 - November 03, 2008, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on November 03, 2008, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot


    That was his joke


    An excellent joke too Smiley
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #22 - November 03, 2008, 05:24 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on November 03, 2008, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot


    That was his joke


    An excellent joke too Smiley


    You wish
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #23 - November 03, 2008, 05:27 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on November 03, 2008, 05:24 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: MSinghK on November 03, 2008, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: learn2bcalm on November 03, 2008, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 03, 2008, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: neilmarr on November 03, 2008, 05:10 PM
    I wonder if there might not be a more acceptable anchorage. Neil


    Neil, no need to write 'Neil' at the end of your posts, we know already, cheers. Jack.



     Smiley Wink parrot


    That was his joke


    An excellent joke too Smiley


    You wish



    Stop hijacking threads with elongated ramblings Wink
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #24 - November 06, 2008, 08:04 PM
    This topic is an important topic in attempting to understand the psyche of a Muslim mind. Most Muslims start learning the Koran at the age of 2 or 3 years of age and by the time they are 13 or 14 years of age they are staunch Muslims with a good knowledge of the Arabic Qur'an. But with little understanding of its meaning except what has been told to them by their Imams. Is that not right?
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #25 - November 06, 2008, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: elle on November 06, 2008, 08:04 PM
    This topic is an important topic in attempting to understand the psyche of a Muslim mind. Most Muslims start learning the Koran at the age of 2 or 3 years of age and by the time they are 13 or 14 years of age they are staunch Muslims with a good knowledge of the Arabic Qur'an. But with little understanding of its meaning except what has been told to them by their Imams. Is that not right?


    No, that's a sweeping generalisation.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #26 - November 06, 2008, 08:09 PM
    Yes, that is a sweeping generalization.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #27 - November 06, 2008, 08:17 PM
    So please tell me the formal education of a Muslim child in a Muslim school. What are they taught, what is the curricula and to what depth?
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #28 - November 06, 2008, 08:18 PM
    It varies. Please, tell me the formal education of a Christian child in a Christian school. What are they taught, what is the curricula and to what depth?
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: How well do you know Islam?
     Reply #29 - November 06, 2008, 08:23 PM
    awais did you attend a pukka Muslim school or did you attend a Catholic or state school school? Do you know the curriculum of a Madrassa?
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