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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Fitrah.

 (Read 26281 times)
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  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #90 - November 23, 2008, 10:11 PM


    Of course it isn't, and of course an anarchical society wouldn't last long anyway.  It'd be invaded and colonised by its more organised neighbours.  There are definite advantages to social control,  and obvious reasons why tribes that never developed it died out long ago. That explains the seemingly universal drive for religion, no need to go looking for supernatural explanations like the Fitrah.


    Then we have those smaller bands in difficult, remote areas, who've avoided or resisted colonization from time immemorial to the early 21st century.  They simply don't fit into that scenario, yet still have religious beliefs. 



    True, but without some external pressure they don't seem to spawn new or variant religions.



    I'm not sure what you're saying... that the isolated bands don't spawn new or variant religions.  They already have religions.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #91 - November 25, 2008, 10:04 AM

    I just read this article which I found interesting. The author is  a senior researcher at Oxford University's Centre for Anthropology and Mind.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2008/nov/25/religion-children-god-belief

    Quote
    Why do the majority of people ? across cultures and throughout history ? believe in gods?

    One way to address this question is to look at why it is that children acquire beliefs in gods. If an idea cannot be easily learned by children then it is relatively unlikely to survive into the next generation and will die out. So if we can explain why children are so ready to believe in gods, we will be a big step closer in understanding religious beliefs more generally. It may seem that the answer is simple: indoctrination. Children believe because their parents or other adults teach them, right? Unfortunately, the story is not that simple. Fortunately, it is far more interesting.

    Children will believe a lot of what their parents teach them, but not everything. Try to convince a child that a tarantula is harmless, that broccoli is a better food for them than crisps, or that Paul McCartney is a better musician than Miley Cyrus and you'll likely get nowhere. Likewise, teachers have difficulty teaching many scientific insights such as evolution by natural selection or that solid objects such as tables are composed almost entirely of space. Children learn things that their minds are tuned to learn more readily than things that go against that natural tuning.

    Developmental psychologists have provided evidence that children are naturally tuned to believe in gods of one sort or another.

    ? Children tend to see natural objects as designed or purposeful in ways that go beyond what their parents teach, as Deborah Kelemen has demonstrated. Rivers exist so that we can go fishing on them, and birds are here to look pretty.

    ? Children doubt that impersonal processes can create order or purpose. Studies with children show that they expect that someone not something is behind natural order. No wonder that Margaret Evans found that children younger than 10 favoured creationist accounts of the origins of animals over evolutionary accounts even when their parents and teachers endorsed evolution. Authorities' testimony didn't carry enough weight to over-ride a natural tendency.

    ? Children know humans are not behind the order so the idea of a creating god (or gods) makes sense to them. Children just need adults to specify which one.

    ? Experimental evidence, including cross-cultural studies, suggests that three-year-olds attribute super, god-like qualities to lots of different beings. Super-power, super-knowledge and super-perception seem to be default assumptions. Children then have to learn that mother is fallible, and dad is not all powerful, and that people will die. So children may be particularly receptive to the idea of a super creator-god. It fits their predilections.

    ? Recent research by Paul Bloom, Jesse Bering, and Emma Cohen suggests that children may also be predisposed to believe in a soul that persists beyond death.

    That belief comes so naturally to children may sound like an attack on religious belief (belief in gods is just leftover childishness) or a promotion of religious belief (God has implanted a seed for belief in children). What both sides should agree upon is the scientific evidence: certainly cultural inputs help fill in the details but children's minds are not a level playing field. They are tilted in the direction of belief.

    Justin L Barrett will discuss his research today at the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion seminar, "Born Believers: the Naturalness of Childhood Theism" at St Edmund's College, University of Cambridge


    Life is a sexually transmitted disease which is invariably fatal.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #92 - November 25, 2008, 10:14 AM

    Interesting. Some parts of it aren't that surprising either. I've often thought that creationists are remarkably simplistic in the way that they think. They seem primed for mediocrity.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #93 - November 25, 2008, 10:16 AM

    I disagree, I am rasing my children without faith and the only time god has come up as a subject has been when the school have presented the idea to them, ie my 6yr old saying he wanted to go to a church.

    Kids readily believe in santa claus for a few years, the tooth fairy, why? because children are clueless lol that doesn't mean that they are born with an inate need to believe in santa claus, just that they are more open to ideas that make sense simplistically.

    Once they progress beyond simple ideas, swallowing the idea of god becomes harder.

    My eldest son does not believe in god, in the same way that he knows santa is me, and that I am the tooth fairy.




    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #94 - November 25, 2008, 10:21 AM

    Berbs,
    Are you atheist, agnostics or something else?
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #95 - November 25, 2008, 10:21 AM

    Cool. I want pix of you dressed as Santa this Christmas. Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #96 - November 25, 2008, 10:24 AM

    Here she is :

  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #97 - November 25, 2008, 10:25 AM

    I want that outfit.  Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #98 - November 25, 2008, 10:26 AM

    Where's the beard? Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #99 - November 25, 2008, 10:28 AM

    Berbs,
    Are you atheist, agnostics or something else?


    I think I'm an atheist, if an atheist is like Richard dawkins states, someone who doesn't believe in god but is still open....nay even impatient...for someone to prove otherwise.

    Cool. I want pix of you dressed as Santa this Christmas. Cheesy


    Only if I get the above outfit.  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #100 - November 25, 2008, 10:28 AM

    Where's the beard? Cheesy


    You ever hear of a razor.  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #101 - November 25, 2008, 10:39 AM

     Cheesy bunny Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #102 - November 25, 2008, 10:40 AM

     Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #103 - November 25, 2008, 10:43 AM

    Beats crawling down bloody chimneys. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #104 - November 25, 2008, 10:58 AM

     Cheesy

    Best thread EVERRR.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #105 - November 25, 2008, 11:01 AM

    It certainly seems to be looking up now.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #106 - November 25, 2008, 11:09 AM

    It certainly seems to be looking up now.


    Which is pretty much what Santa is doing too.  Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #107 - November 25, 2008, 03:08 PM

    It certainly seems to be looking up now.


    Which is pretty much what Santa is doing too.  Cheesy


    I thought they were wrestling... Angelic

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #108 - November 25, 2008, 03:17 PM


    Of course it isn't, and of course an anarchical society wouldn't last long anyway.  It'd be invaded and colonised by its more organised neighbours.  There are definite advantages to social control,  and obvious reasons why tribes that never developed it died out long ago. That explains the seemingly universal drive for religion, no need to go looking for supernatural explanations like the Fitrah.


    Then we have those smaller bands in difficult, remote areas, who've avoided or resisted colonization from time immemorial to the early 21st century.  They simply don't fit into that scenario, yet still have religious beliefs. 



    True, but without some external pressure they don't seem to spawn new or variant religions.



    I'm not sure what you're saying... that the isolated bands don't spawn new or variant religions.  They already have religions.

    What I mean is, you don't get many L Ron Hubbards in loin cloths, but you do find them where there's money to be made.
    As for the first century situation in Israel, the turmoil of war  was a precepitating factor in the following of various saviour prophets who all had an eye to the past in helping the present in times of turmoil and which spawned one great survivor variant based on 'legitimate' historical sources.
    As for proliferations of single-source variants in large popns. just look at the States as one eg.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: The Fitrah.
     Reply #109 - September 06, 2016, 07:50 PM

    I accept your point, Neil. Without doubt the temptation is to define what God wants etc...

    Personally I don't feel I will ever fall into that trap again - after all I've been through.

    My belief in a God remains undefined and without any qualifications - I simply don't know anything - and fully accept that I have no real evidence for a God - and that there indeed may be none.


    Just came across this old post of mine from the beginning of the forum. It reminds me how my views actually have never changed since losing my faith. Even when I identified as an ex Muslim I still held the very same views as I do now. Namely I believe in *something* which I choose to call God. Just the label (Agnostic Muslim) changed. I only mention this because so many idiots keep saying I changed blah blah...
  • The Fitrah.
     Reply #110 - September 06, 2016, 09:24 PM

    Just came across this old post of mine from the beginning of the forum. It reminds me how my views actually have never changed since losing my faith. Even when I identified as an ex Muslim I still held the very same views as I do now. Namely I believe in *something* which I choose to call God. Just the label (Agnostic Muslim) changed. I only mention this because so many idiots keep saying I changed blah blah...

    that is NOT completely true., You are indirectly saying two things here.,  As a  Muslim also,  you were confused with faith and Islamic scriptures  and   Your jump from Muslim to ex-Muslim took a heavy toll on your views of faith.  And what you are saying now is , There is considerable overlap between ex-Muslim and Agnostic Muslim on the views of existence of god.... whatever that god may be.   And you are comfortable with being an Agnostic Muslim which separates you from  100s of millions of Muslims   and their views on Allahgod., By saying Agnostic you also automatically  become member of  other faiths and other folks who have similar views in their faith..  Essentially you are fit to join in any faith Hassan..  Cheesy

    Yes.....  you changed and you know you changed  grin12

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Fitrah.
     Reply #111 - September 07, 2016, 11:23 AM

    Watch this tube yeez:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDvmV4zr-Q

    And I'm just kidding Hassan. I know that fundamentally philosophically and ethically you've remained very constant.  Tongue

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Fitrah.
     Reply #112 - September 07, 2016, 11:37 AM

    Watch this tube yeez:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDvmV4zr-Q

    And I'm just kidding Hassan. I know that fundamentally philosophically and ethically you've remained very constant.  Tongue

    asbie .. writing a post like that you are taking a chance.,  chance of getting blocked/Ignored  by Hassan..   Cheesy .  

    Hassan probably clicked/un-clicked me on  that Ignore post button some    100 times  ..   Cheesy

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Fitrah.
     Reply #113 - September 07, 2016, 12:45 PM

    And I'm just kidding Hassan. I know that fundamentally philosophically and ethically you've remained very constant.  Tongue


    Thank you!!
  • The Fitrah.
     Reply #114 - September 07, 2016, 12:46 PM

    asbie .. writing a post like that you are taking a chance.,  chance of getting blocked/Ignored  by Hassan..   Cheesy .  

    Hassan probably clicked/un-clicked me on  that Ignore post button some    100 times  ..   Cheesy


    That's because you are total loon Yeezy Cheesy
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