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Theme Changer

 Topic: My journey up from the abyss

 (Read 25726 times)
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  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #60 - June 12, 2009, 09:09 PM

    Its not much different to Richard Dawkins statement that moderate religionists provide cover for fundies.  And yes, that is too extreme for some, its cathartic for others. 

    Horses for courses, innit.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #61 - June 12, 2009, 09:16 PM

    Well- somehow the cases there are just confirming the stereotype...

    I know there are a lot of decent muslims- but as Berberella wrote about her step-mothers father that he is/was in fact more of a sufi than muslim...
    That is the case with the decent muslims- they are either from a minority sect (ahmadiyja, bahai,sufi...) or muslim by name only- "Easter/X-mas muslims"...

    By the way I read a statement by Maryam Namazie that the so called moderates are a PR wing of radicals...that was pretty extreme I think...

    My parents are decent muslims and they're not from a minority sect. There are many muslims who are struggling with their religions teachings and try to justify them or twist their meaning in any way possible and these people are most definitely not a minority. You just hear about them less because they aren't as interesting.

    Islam itself is a major problem but it doesn't mean all muslims agree with it's teachings. Most muslims are usually unaware of what their religion teaches (and often don't agree with it).
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #62 - June 12, 2009, 09:16 PM

    I agree with Ibn Warraq when he said - 'Muslims are the first victims of Islam'
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #63 - June 13, 2009, 05:26 PM

    I agree with Ibn Warraq when he said - 'Muslims are the first victims of Islam'


    I agree 100 %

    But they can also set themselves free like Berberella did...

    Of course if only handful of people would speak loudly- like Wafa Sultan or Maryam Namazie and the rest will keep quiet- then it is easy to get rid of them...If there were more Asmas bint Marwan then islam would probably ceased to exist right after it was born...
    ....

    I am afraid that what Berberella described is rather common in muslim families or even worse in muslim countries where getting any sort of help is impossible...

    By the way- does someone know if it is true?

    Quote
    In Morocco you can not say Talaq three times and be divorced! Its not that simple anymore or at least for Moroccans...You have to get a divorce and prove there are grounds for the divorce and it is hard to divorce. The new King changed this along with many other Moroccan family laws including marriage in Morocco...



  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #64 - June 13, 2009, 05:40 PM

    I agree 100 %

    But they can also set themselves free like Berberella did...

    Breaking out of indoctrination is a very difficult thing to do.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #65 - June 13, 2009, 06:55 PM

    Quote
    In Morocco you can not say Talaq three times and be divorced! Its not that simple anymore or at least for Moroccans...You have to get a divorce and prove there are grounds for the divorce and it is hard to divorce. The new King changed this along with many other Moroccan family laws including marriage in Morocco...


    Yes, it's alot more complex in morocco these days: http://www.law.emory.edu/ifl/legal/morocco.htm

    Quote
    Talaq: talaq must be registered at court, normally in presence of wife; if talaq is found to have been exercised while wife is menstruating, judge shall oblige husband to revoke it; talaq uttered while intoxicated, under coercion, enraged, upon condition, by oath or with intention to coerce not effective; talaq to which a number is attached effective as single revocable only (except third of three)


    However I was not married under the moroccan system, I was married in England, under the islamic one only and never went to the moroccan embassy to have moroccan papers set up.  So I fell under pure islamic law, not moroccan ones.

    The imam came to my ex husbands parents house and I gave consent from behind a curtain and agreed to the terms of the dowry.

    Frankly I am glad, I am extremely happy that all it took was 3 words for my freedom.  Afro

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #66 - June 13, 2009, 06:59 PM

    Interesting though, that's not an up to date link, but if you read the bottom of that link there are stipulations that seem to negate what I quoted from it:

    Quote
    Morocco acceded to the CEDAW in 1993. Morocco submitted the following declarations: Morocco confirmed its willingness to apply the provisions of Article 2 on the elimination of discrimination provided that they do not "prejudice the constitutional requirement that regulates the rules of succession to the throne�(and) do not conflict with the provisions of the Islamic shari�a�"; Morocco also stated that, with respect to Article 15(4), "Morocco declares that it can only be bound by the provisions of this paragraph, in particular those relating to the right of women to choose their residence and domicile, to the extent that they are not incompatible with Articles 34 and 36 of the Moroccan Code of Personal Status". Morocco also submitted the following reservations: Morocco�s reservation relating to Article 15(4) states that "the Law of Moroccan Nationality permits a child to bear the nationality of its mother only in the cases where it is born to an unknown� or to a stateless father, when born in Morocco�"; Morocco also expressed reservations regarding Article 16 stating that equality in family law "is considered incompatible with the Islamic shari�a, which guarantees to each of the spouses rights and responsibilities within a framework of equilibrium and complementary in order to preserve the sacred bond of matrimony".


    I mean I know that the laws protecting women have really improved since I was a child over there, the new king and his sister are modernising the country, much to the chagrin of the strict muslims who are not happy with the cnages over there.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #67 - June 14, 2009, 09:23 AM

    Interesting though, that's not an up to date link, but if you read the bottom of that link there are stipulations that seem to negate what I quoted from it:

    I mean I know that the laws protecting women have really improved since I was a child over there, the new king and his sister are modernising the country, much to the chagrin of the strict muslims who are not happy with the cnages over there.




    but the King have to be careful...Shah Reza Pahlavi tried to modernise Iran too- and was expelled or rather had to run for his life...

    Not to mention king Faruq of Egypt and Iraqi king who were killed...

    Afghani king was expelled ...

    Jordans king Abdallah is walking on egg shells ...

    But I have a question too- do you think that the abuse you had to endure was an extreme case or was it rather a norm in muslim families ?
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #68 - June 14, 2009, 09:30 AM

    But I have a question too- do you think that the abuse you had to endure was an extreme case or was it rather a norm in muslim families ?

    In differs from country to country and from culture to culture.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #69 - June 14, 2009, 09:52 AM

    but the King have to be careful...Shah Reza Pahlavi tried to modernise Iran too- and was expelled or rather had to run for his life...

    Not to mention king Faruq of Egypt and Iraqi king who were killed...

    Afghani king was expelled ...

    Jordans king Abdallah is walking on egg shells ...


    No doubt he will have to be careful, he has enemies that are alot stricter than he is, and who are not happy about the way his sister has so much freedom and doesn't cover up.

    Quote

    But I have a question too- do you think that the abuse you had to endure was an extreme case or was it rather a norm in muslim families ?


    I know of many moroccan kids who were abused, but not at the level I was abused at in the UK.  On the other hand I've seen just as bad in morocco happening to other kids.

    It varies from family to family.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #70 - June 14, 2009, 10:39 AM

    No doubt he will have to be careful, he has enemies that are alot stricter than he is, and who are not happy about the way his sister has so much freedom and doesn't cover up.




    The only time I actually heard about the Moroccan king was when he married and allowed his wife to be photographed...It was a novelty and it created some outrage if I remeber correctly...
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #71 - June 14, 2009, 10:41 AM

    Yes, many were horrified lol but many were proud to see him break a few traditions.

    I heard all about his love story and about how he refused to take the girl that was raised for him and sought out his own choice, reminds me of that film coming to america lol.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #72 - June 14, 2009, 04:13 PM

    the King seems to be really nice guy- but modern king is not enough...

    By the way- have you ever thought about writing a book ?

    your story is really interesting- much more interesting than Betty Mahmudi' s "Not without my daughter"...it is so dramatic that people even dont believe it is real...

    Of course you can ask somebody to help you- but I think you will manage to do it yourself...

    Your story + blog can be some kind of draft...so you dont have to start from scratch...

  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #73 - June 14, 2009, 04:18 PM

    the King seems to be really nice guy- but modern king is not enough...

    By the way- have you ever thought about writing a book ?

    your story is really interesting- much more interesting than Betty Mahmudi' s "Not without my daughter"...it is so dramatic that people even dont believe it is real...

    Of course you can ask somebody to help you- but I think you will manage to do it yourself...

    Your story + blog can be some kind of draft...so you dont have to start from scratch...




    M, as you can see I get the same reaction.  Even non muslims find it hard to believe.  Kind of pisses me off to be honest because it all really did happen and it gets dismissed as being too far out there.

    They all forget about what they see on the news or read in the papers, that's just the news, but my life must be the lie because things like that just don't happen etc etc.

    I've toyed with the idea of writing a book, but I think I'm more into the idea of never writing it, than I am into the idea of writing it for the whole world to see, and not just a select group on the net.

    Maybe when I'm older and I feel I have an ending, maybe then I might be tempted again, but frankly until my kids are all grown up and can handle the repurcussions of what I write, then it's off the table.

    Thanks though.  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #74 - June 14, 2009, 07:35 PM


    They all forget about what they see on the news or read in the papers, that's just the news, but my life must be the lie because things like that just don't happen etc etc.

    I've toyed with the idea of writing a book, but I think I'm more into the idea of never writing it, than I am into the idea of writing it for the whole world to see, and not just a select group on the net.

    Maybe when I'm older and I feel I have an ending, maybe then I might be tempted again, but frankly until my kids are all grown up and can handle the repurcussions of what I write, then it's off the table.

    Thanks though.  Smiley


    It is more comfortable to just dismiss your story as not true...usually the women who are all defensive about islam are actually either having a muslim male friend nearby who sells them the sugar coated version that muslim women are treated like queens or basicaly are examples of the rule: What you cant beat you defend...we often do that not to admit our helplessness...):

    But there are interesting similarities between your story and Ayyan Hirsi Alis' one...

    Both of you like reading books and were exposed to western ideas (you in the Uk and Ayaan in Kenia and Etiopia )...

    Maybe that is what saved you in the end...

    My favourite parts of both stories are when you run away from life full of abuse...

    the taxi driver...lol

    Was that a certain moment when you said enough is enough or was it a long-termed process ?
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #75 - May 13, 2011, 09:21 PM

    I cried when I first read this too. I still cry - for Berbs  far away hug - and all humanity.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #76 - May 13, 2011, 09:26 PM

    jme.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #77 - May 13, 2011, 10:05 PM

    I'm going on skype right now. Just for you my love.
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #78 - May 13, 2011, 10:09 PM

    .
  • Re: My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #79 - May 13, 2011, 10:15 PM

    I knew it! All talk and no action. Pussy!
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #80 - July 01, 2014, 08:52 PM

    wow, what a story, so much of pain  Cry I am SO glad you found the strength to leave
     far away hug

    Marriage


    Was it my English side that made me rebel inside all the time, which made total subservience too hard to bear? This is what Muslims tell me now, that my western upbringing interfered with my ability to be a good Muslim woman, and that as soon as I reject western concepts like equal rights and women's liberation or human rights, then I will find Islam easier to accept as the truth. This I cannot do, not now and not then.



    You know I can so relate to what you mention here, I too am not good at being submissive. I think it has less to do with your english side and more to do with the fact that you have a strong personality. I am sure that just like me you have also always felt deep down, even on the days you felt defeated that you were meant to live a very different life then the one you were living.

    I know so many times in my life I felt like I was living someone else's life, going through the motions. It felt like I was standing and watching my life sift through my fingers as a voice inside of me cried out for more.

    I would love to hear how things turned out for you

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #81 - July 03, 2014, 10:58 AM

    I was just thinking the other day, with regards to Berbellas story, I simply can not believe that such evil and heartless people exist in the world. That is the saddest part...
    That these people are out there, and it can be noted that even religion, which is suppose to be a moral code, does not help them to be better people...
    So sickening  finmad

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #82 - July 03, 2014, 04:40 PM

    wow, what a story, so much of pain  Cry I am SO glad you found the strength to leave
     far away hug


    Thanks confusedagno hugs  I'm also glad I left, because who knows how shitty life would still be if I hadn't/  :/

    Quote

    You know I can so relate to what you mention here, I too am not good at being submissive. I think it has less to do with your english side and more to do with the fact that you have a strong personality. I am sure that just like me you have also always felt deep down, even on the days you felt defeated that you were meant to live a very different life then the one you were living.

    I know so many times in my life I felt like I was living someone else's life, going through the motions. It felt like I was standing and watching my life sift through my fingers as a voice inside of me cried out for more.


    Yep, I hear you.  That's a familiar feeling to me, especially back then....thinking how in the hell did I end up here considering all my beliefs and ambitions as a child.  My rebellion was my pride and I let it get squished out of me for a bit.

    I know it wasn't the English side, that was just something I wondered at sometimes, when my ex husband wouldn't stop, and I couldn't stop.  But it as you say, a strong personality in a woman cannot live well under Islam.

    Quote

    I would love to hear how things turned out for you


    Pretty good actually Smiley

    When I originally wrote that story, my ex had been awarded contact with the children, which meant he found at my address.  He has turned up bashing on the door before, but I just called the police, and I am lucky really, that all my huge fears back then never came true.

    He may hate me, but I didn't realise that thanks to my fight for my freedom, I won back all the control.  He feared to come here, everytime he made trouble, which honestly was primarily centred on him finding out I was dating once, I just called the police.

    He beat my eldest with a belt, and would belittle him all the time (he has special needs), and he threatened my daughter, told her he would beat her if she didn't tell him the name of the person I was dating at the time.  So they stopped wanting to see him, and he lost his own children through his own actions.

    I'd say I've probably had less trouble off him as he knows I am single (he felt threatened and became threatening when I dated, but that relationship fizzled not long after...which made my ex husband happy lol), and it satisfies him and quells his jealousy.  

    Meh, not to say being single is being done for him, I'm single because I just am.  It's just the way it is.  Still unlovable, but whatever right.  Grin

    Anyway currently my ex is in prison, second time since I left him.  Not because of me, but because he is a stupid idiot.

    For myself, after years of hiding in my house, and talking online to my only friends, I went to college a few years back, and then on to Uni, where I have a year left until I am finished. I love being at uni, I love knowing that my life is on a course I am happy with.  I love my subjects, just enjoy learning and gaining in confidence.

    My ex always used to call me stupid, but who is the stupid one now right?  him stuck in a prison cell, or me, gaining the highest marks at uni, and heading off to do a masters straight after that?  Yea my confidence has definitely grown.   grin12

    I also learned to drive and got my license and a car, which he would never let me do.   bunny  

    I'm very happy at the moment.  Even though I have so much other stuff that is shitty, like a son who is verbally abusive, and may well hit me since he has thrown things at me, I am still so much happier than ever before.

    Honestly, at times I feel so content I have the urge to hug someone.   Tongue  lol and I used to hate hugs because I didn't feel worthy of them.  It's a recent development, but my desire to show affection has increased, as time, and the right friends, and my kids, have taught me that I am worthy of it, and it won't always be rejected.

    Sigh.....things are good.   Big hug




    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #83 - July 03, 2014, 04:45 PM

    I was just thinking the other day, with regards to Berbellas story, I simply can not believe that such evil and heartless people exist in the world. That is the saddest part...
    That these people are out there, and it can be noted that even religion, which is suppose to be a moral code, does not help them to be better people...
    So sickening  finmad


    Yep.  You'd think a religion would make people better.  That is certainly what they always boast about, that line between them and athiests who are meant to be evil, but I've never read islamic rules that you aren't allowed to beat your children, or that you aren't allowed to beat your wife.

    You aren't allowed to eat pork though.  That's pretty fucking clear. 

    If it is possible to condition an aversion to pork that is so strong it lasts even in ex muslims, you'd think conditioning people against violence is possible.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #84 - July 03, 2014, 06:32 PM

    Religion has nothing to do with what kind of person one is. There are atheists who are among the kindest and the most honest people I know. Also we all know some (not all) religious people who are violent and judgemental and very dishonest. Religion has no bearing on one`s character.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #85 - July 03, 2014, 06:38 PM

    .............. Religion has no bearing on one`s character. .................

    Mr. Ram is pushing through some FACTS here..

    Yap religion has no bearing on one`s character., I see that many countries and in many religions Including "Islam"

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #86 - July 03, 2014, 06:40 PM

    I'm aware of that,  what we pointing out to us the argument religious ppl use as to why people need religion, apprently it's suppose to be to give us morals yet it does not have hold on how people will act, even within religion people choose what they want to accept and not.

    But religion or not it's still sad these kind of people exist

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #87 - July 03, 2014, 06:42 PM

    And berbs it's great to hear all turned out well for you!!!  All the best for your future! And you will find someone too, I highly doubt u are unlovable you seem extremely lovable to me  Wink

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #88 - July 03, 2014, 06:43 PM

    It's been great seeing all the little changes that have been happening in your life Berbs. They are all adding up and even though there are still some shitty bits (hey life can't always be smooth sailing) you have really taken charge of your life and achieving things you never thought you could do.
    It is definitely inspirational to a lot of us and you are certainly worthy of love, affection and happiness!  hugs

  • My journey up from the abyss
     Reply #89 - July 03, 2014, 06:48 PM

    Honestly, at times I feel so content I have the urge to hug someone.   Tongue  lol and I used to hate hugs because I didn't feel worthy of them.  It's a recent development, but my desire to show affection has increased, as time, and the right friends, and my kids, have taught me that I am worthy of it, and it won't always be rejected.

    Sigh.....things are good.   Big hug


    Yay! Hugs... and lots of them hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs  hugs

    Good to hear things are so much better habibti  Big hug

    It's been a while since I wrote my story too - and a lot has happened since then.

    Looking back I never realised how leaving Islam would turn my life upside down and how the baggage it left me with was going to affect me - but hey we're still standing hun Smiley

    One day I'm gonna add some more to my blog.
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