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 Topic: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

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  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #60 - January 06, 2009, 08:23 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 06, 2009, 08:15 PM
    Israeli spokeswoman on Channel 4 news right now:

    "Hamas fighters are carrying children in their arms to sheild themselves while shooting at us"

    Wow! Those evil sub-human scum!

    "We don't fire at civilians"

    I believe them!


    Glad you got things back on topic. I just saw that on the BBC news. What a deplorable situation. 30 children I hear, so far.


    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #61 - January 06, 2009, 08:26 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on January 06, 2009, 08:23 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 06, 2009, 08:15 PM
    Israeli spokeswoman on Channel 4 news right now:

    "Hamas fighters are carrying children in their arms to sheild themselves while shooting at us"

    Wow! Those evil sub-human scum!

    "We don't fire at civilians"

    I believe them!


    Glad you got things back on topic. I just saw that on the BBC news. What a deplorable situation. 30 children I hear, so far.


    30 people - not all children. But it was a known UN refuge!

    Here is another Hamas terrorist carrying a child as a human shield as the Israeli spokewoman just said. Do they really think these people are such barbarians - Speaks volumes about how the Israelis are conducting this war! Believe me I have criticized Hamas so many times and been called names for it - but running around fighting while carrying their children as shields? They have lost grip on reality!


  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #62 - January 06, 2009, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 06, 2009, 08:26 PM
    30 people - not all children. But it was a known UN refuge!

    Here is another Hamas terrorist carrying a child as a human shield as the Israeli spokewoman just said. Do they really think these people are such barbarians - Speaks volumes about how the Israelis are conducting this war! Believe me I have criticized Hamas so many times and been called names for it - but running around fighting while carrying their children as shields? They have lost grip on reality!


    According to the BBC:

    Israeli Prime Miniser Ehud Olmert said that the military campaign in Gaza would continue until Israel had completely wiped out Hamas's ability to fire rockets into Israel.

    Now that could take a long time. And with Israel's force attacking built up civilian areas, I fear for what is still to come for innocent people.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #63 - January 06, 2009, 09:06 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on January 06, 2009, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 06, 2009, 08:26 PM
    30 people - not all children. But it was a known UN refuge!

    Here is another Hamas terrorist carrying a child as a human shield as the Israeli spokewoman just said. Do they really think these people are such barbarians - Speaks volumes about how the Israelis are conducting this war! Believe me I have criticized Hamas so many times and been called names for it - but running around fighting while carrying their children as shields? They have lost grip on reality!


    According to the BBC:

    Israeli Prime Miniser Ehud Olmert said that the military campaign in Gaza would continue until Israel had completely wiped out Hamas's ability to fire rockets into Israel.

    Now that could take a long time. And with Israel's force attacking built up civilian areas, I fear for what is still to come for innocent people.


    I honestly don't understand what the Israeli's are thinking because to me this doesn't make sense from their point of view.

    I mean we have been here before. In 1982 they went into Lebanon to get rid of PLO terrorists... that invasion led to Hezbollah and contributed to the growth of Hamas and an increase in terrorism. Each crack down and military measure has only led to more extremism.

    Do they really think that even if they kill every single Hamas member right down to the old guy who sweeps the floor - that will be the end of it. Hamas (or a new even more crazy extreme group) will rise like a Phoenix from the rubble.

    I hate Hamas and I am totally against everything they stand for - but bombing them out of existence wont work. It has never worked and it will never work. It is not a solution to the Palestinian Problem and only weakens the moderate Palestinian's efforts to win over the rest.

    Talking and diplomacy is the only way - and making a real effort for peace, stopping the settlements, possessions of houses etc...
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #64 - January 06, 2009, 09:11 PM
    Talking and diplomacy have been tried too and failed.  I don't think we'll ever see peace in the Middle East, but then again, people probably said that about Northern Ireland, so.......
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #65 - January 08, 2009, 12:22 AM
    Palestinians have no where to fucking go. No where. The refugee camps they go to are being attacked.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev6ojm62qwA


    This probably one of the hardest videos I have ever watched.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5wrwZlwAq8

    FOR FUCKS SAKE! I DON`T EVEN CARE WHAT ANYONE HAS TO SAY ANYMORE. DON`T EVEN TRY TO JUSTIFY THIS. THIS IS SO FUCKING WRONG. DON`T TELL ME THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. DON`T TELL ME IT`S SELF DEFENSE. KEEP YOUR FUCKING BULLSHIT TO YOURSELF.
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #66 - January 08, 2009, 05:07 AM
    From the First paragraph of the Hamas constitution:

    Here is Hamas condemning the jews in israel to death:
    Quote
    Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).


    Here is where the Hamas constitution is condemning Palestinians to death in saying and then in action:
    Quote
    The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #67 - January 08, 2009, 08:52 AM
    Rocket fire is now hitting Israel from Lebannon.

    I fear Israel is only going to be further aggravated, resulting in much more deaths of the innocents.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #68 - January 08, 2009, 10:15 AM
    Quote from: Baal on January 08, 2009, 05:07 AM
    From the First paragraph of the Hamas constitution:

    Here is Hamas condemning the jews in israel to death:
    Quote
    Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).


    Here is where the Hamas constitution is condemning Palestinians to death in saying and then in action:
    Quote
    The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?




    So basically, Hamas are saying that they are unwilling to share supposed 'Muslim' land with ANYONE.  Playground politics: 'No, it;s mine, I took it first!'...

    Sadly, I do not think we will ever see a change in the Palestinian situation in our lifetimes.  I'm just glad my grandparents didn't settle in Israel after fleeing Germany...
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #69 - January 08, 2009, 10:17 AM
    This whole notion that once a land comes under Islamic rule it can never revert back to non-Muslim rule is just juvinile and idiotic IMO.  GROW UP!  It's a small world and it's the only one we have so we'd better learn to share it with everyone, even those who are opposed to us ideologically.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #70 - January 08, 2009, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: Iggy
    FOR FUCKS SAKE! I DON`T EVEN CARE WHAT ANYONE HAS TO SAY ANYMORE. DON`T EVEN TRY TO JUSTIFY THIS. THIS IS SO FUCKING WRONG. DON`T TELL ME THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. DON`T TELL ME IT`S SELF DEFENSE. KEEP YOUR FUCKING BULLSHIT TO YOURSELF.

    Anger and emotional outbursts are natural human reactions, Iggy. I suffer from them several times everyday but when I sit down to contemplate, I try to handle affairs as logically as I can. I do sympathise with the average Palestinian, but tell me, what do you feel about the Jewish woman and her children murdered by Hamas terrorists? Do you ever try to sympathise with the average Israeli? Their predicaments? Their past?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3679395.stm

    These people were the victims of commonplace Hamas ideology. I will reiterate my previous question if anybody is willing to answer --how do you expect Israel to fight Hamas? With showers of flowers, and perfume sprays?
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #71 - January 08, 2009, 07:28 PM
    I agree Zaephon that Hamas rocket attacks are unacceptable. But Israel's response is also unacceptable.

    Of course they can meet violence with violence.

    But what they are doing right now is indefensible.

    I can't even put into words my feelings as I watch the news right now. Israeli soldiers  preventing the Red Cross to get to children - Soldiers left children starving as they sat for days, by their dead mothers...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090108/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazaicrcwounded_newsmlmmd

  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #72 - January 08, 2009, 08:09 PM
    Quote from: Hassan
    Of course they can meet violence with violence.

    And the purpose of violence in war is to ensure the surrender or defeat of your opponent, I guess. The great dilemma in this conflict is that Hamas are a mixture of terrorist civilian elements. Hamas have ben elected "democratically" and they enjoy popular support at least in the Gaza Strip, and they enjoy wide cooperation with ordinary Palestinians who cling to the belief that Hamas are their saviours and liberators. The use of human shields and the exploitation of civilians by Hamas, as in the case of remote-controlled detonation, are also relevant in this argument.

    I think I understand your viewpoint Hassan, I subscribed to the same opinions about Israel a few years ago. But your "middle-ground" is not the only one --I have my own, as do many other people. Now... shall we consider the dilemma of an Israeli who wants to survive, but adhere to high ethical standards also? How would you defeat Hamas, considering that:

    1. Hamas wants to eliminate Israel, which is tantamount to the genocide of all Jewish residents of Israel, and some Arab Israelis also. I can imagine that an apocalyptic defeat of Israel would be the perfect excuse for the elimination of some bothersome groups, like Christian and Druze Arabs.
    2. Hamas is adhering to an utopian and surreal worldview, which is not concerned with the welfare of civilians --Infidels deserve to die, and Muslim martyrs go to Jannah anyway. 
    3. The very structure of Hamas, not to mention the madness and depravity of war and bloodshed in general terms, makes it quite difficult to distinguish between civilians and terrorists.

    It is possible to summarise the dilemma like this:

    A. If Israel desists from fighting, there will be more rocket attacks and deaths. Hamas will grow bolder, and more violence will ensue. Israel will either be forced to exercise option B with worse results, or surrender altogether.
    B. If Israel fights, there will be more civilian deaths. Global anti-Semitism will rise, and relations with the West will deteriorate.

    What is your option C?
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #73 - January 08, 2009, 09:06 PM
    C) "Limited" military response - one or two days of air strikes where they take far more care over their targets than they are now. Followed by serious efforts to find a diplomatic solution.


  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #74 - January 08, 2009, 10:48 PM
    If Hamas refuses to halt airstrikes now, what makes anyone think they would do so with limited airstrikes.

    The more I read on Hamas, the more disgusted I am. Crucifixion? Cutting off people's hands for stealing? Murdering their political opponents? Right now they're killing members of Fatah right and left for fear that they may try to negotiate with the Israelis.  And their draft of sharia law includes punishments for Palestinians who "hurt the morale of the Palestinian people". I'd bet money that they plan to use that last one to kill Palestinians for stating legitimate opinions such as they can't win a military war with Israel or they should try to find some middle ground for a two state solution.

    Hamas are worse than a pack of rabid dogs. Frickin' batshit crazy, frothing at the mouth frenzied madmen fueled with religious hatred and carrying guns and armed with rockets. Reading interviews with them brings to mind those creatures on 28 Days Later.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #75 - January 08, 2009, 11:25 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 08, 2009, 09:06 PM
    C) "Limited" military response - one or two days of air strikes where they take far more care over their targets than they are now. Followed by serious efforts to find a diplomatic solution.


    D) Return to ceasefire by both sides, an end to the blockade of Gaza.

    Shocked Far down the list, I know, but. . . 
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #76 - January 09, 2009, 04:26 AM
    Quote from: Zaephon on January 08, 2009, 07:13 PM
    what do you feel about the Jewish woman and her children murdered by Hamas terrorists? Do you ever try to sympathise with the average Israeli? Their predicaments? Their past?

    Again, I am appalled (and totally against) by Hamas's actions. I am not a Palestinian or even an Arab. No longer a Muslim, so what empathy and compassion I have for these people, for these children, I feel as a human being. I don't care about them because they are Palestinian or Muslim.  I care about them because they are humans, like me. Did you even watch the videos I posted? What do you have to say?

    Of course I'm against the murder of innocent Israelis! It's wrong to kill a mother and her children (or anyone else), whether they be Israeli or Palestinian. It doesn't make a difference to me. Still, Israeli mothers and children aren't being killed by the hundreds. The link you posted, dates 2005. How many completely innocent Palestinians have been killed since then? (Yeah yeah, if Hamas had the weapons, they would kill Jews by the hundreds).

    I feel empathy, sympathy, and compassion for any and every oppressed and wrong person or people. For the Jews who encountered nothing but hate and abuse and suffered in Hitler's camps, but also for the other (usually forgotten) 5 million human beings who suffered the same fate.

    The goal should be to prevent another holocaust from ever happening again, not another Jewish holocaust.

    Quote from: Zaephon on January 08, 2009, 07:13 PM
    These people were the victims of commonplace Hamas ideology. I will reiterate my previous question if anybody is willing to answer --how do you expect Israel to fight Hamas? With showers of flowers, and perfume sprays?

    Somehow track done the top Hamas thinkers, officials, and leaders. Get insider information? Find out where Hamas is getting their weapons, catch ACTUAL terrorists? Surely with all the financial help they get, they can get decent "intelligentsia".

    The point is, if they really wanted a peaceful solution, they'd have come up with one. By the way, I forget, who was it that broke the ceasefire first, this time around?

    Also, just because it is not written in Israel's constitution that they want to get rid of the Palestinians, doesn't mean it's not true. Actions speak for themselves.
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #77 - January 09, 2009, 05:30 AM
    Quote from: Iggy on January 09, 2009, 04:26 AM
    Also, just because it is not written in Israel's constitution that they want to get rid of the Palestinians, doesn't mean it's not true. Actions speak for themselves.

    As I recall, they still don't have one, after these 60 years.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #78 - January 09, 2009, 06:55 AM
    Quote from: Nour on January 08, 2009, 10:15 AM
    Quote from: Baal on January 08, 2009, 05:07 AM
    From the First paragraph of the Hamas constitution:

    Here is Hamas condemning the jews in israel to death:
    Quote
    Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).


    Here is where the Hamas constitution is condemning Palestinians to death in saying and then in action:
    Quote
    The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?




    So basically, Hamas are saying that they are unwilling to share supposed 'Muslim' land with ANYONE.  Playground politics: 'No, it;s mine, I took it first!'...

    Sadly, I do not think we will ever see a change in the Palestinian situation in our lifetimes.  I'm just glad my grandparents didn't settle in Israel after fleeing Germany...

    In the balance of probability, you would have been a lot less glad if they settled any other Arabic land, you would have been ethnically cleansed.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #79 - January 09, 2009, 08:13 AM
    Quote from: Iggy on January 05, 2009, 06:38 AM
    Quote from: Zaephon on January 05, 2009, 04:07 AM
    @Iggy

    Have you ever heard about the Jews expelled from Arab lands?


    I have. For a people to be forced out of their homes? It's beyond terrible. Racism is wrong. Discrimination is wrong. Anti-semitism is wrong. What happened to the Jews during the holocaust is unmentionable.

    Does that make it okay for Israel to treat Palestinians as second class citizens?(Curfew hours, ID cards, searches, hours at checkpoints just to get to work or the hospital.) Does that make the home demolitions alright?

    Yes, Jews have been mistreated throughout their whole history but does that make what they're doing to the Palestinians less wrong? Does the fact that Jews were expelled from Arab countries justify what they're doing? In fact, with all that history of oppression...

    Before you talk about self defense and Hamas...Why do think Hamas won the election in 2006? I'm willing to bet it has more to do with the Palestinians' frustrations and dissatisfactions with their living conditions than it does with anti-semitism. Like Chris Hedges said, "Israel is foolishly breeding the next generation of Islamic militants in Gaza".



    Well said.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #80 - January 09, 2009, 08:22 AM
    Quote from: Iggy on January 08, 2009, 12:22 AM
    Palestinians have no where to fucking go. No where. The refugee camps they go to are being attacked.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev6ojm62qwA


    This probably one of the hardest videos I have ever watched.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5wrwZlwAq8

    FOR FUCKS SAKE! I DON`T EVEN CARE WHAT ANYONE HAS TO SAY ANYMORE. DON`T EVEN TRY TO JUSTIFY THIS. THIS IS SO FUCKING WRONG. DON`T TELL ME THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. DON`T TELL ME IT`S SELF DEFENSE. KEEP YOUR FUCKING BULLSHIT TO YOURSELF.


    It is so fucking wrong that Israeli action should not be even defended. It is pure filth. Thanks for the videos.
    It simply looks like Joshua in action.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #81 - January 09, 2009, 08:24 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on January 09, 2009, 08:22 AM
    It simply looks like Joshua in action.

    Joshua?
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #82 - January 09, 2009, 01:31 PM
    Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says

    At least 30 people were killed in the Zeitoun district of Gaza after Israeli troops repeatedly shelled a house to which more than 100 Palestinians had been evacuated by the Israeli military, the UN said today...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun

  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #83 - January 09, 2009, 02:45 PM
    Let's all hope and pray for the quick destruction & dismantling of Hamas so that these children in Gaza can grow up without violence in their lives.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #84 - January 09, 2009, 06:09 PM
    Quote from: Iggy
    The point is, if they really wanted a peaceful solution, they'd have come up with one.

    What makes you so sure, Iggy? Do you think Israel is somehow omnipotent?
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #85 - January 09, 2009, 06:22 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on January 09, 2009, 06:09 PM
    Quote from: Iggy
    The point is, if they really wanted a peaceful solution, they'd have come up with one.

    What makes you so sure, Iggy? Do you think Israel is somehow omnipotent?


    They don't have to be omnipotent - just stop the settlement building, grabs for land and property and behaviour of the settlers and extremists within their own ranks.

    For years and years the Palestinians - and international community - have been pleading with the Israelis to do this - but the Israelis have just kept on year after year.



  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #86 - January 10, 2009, 08:24 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on January 09, 2009, 06:22 PM
    Quote from: Zaephon on January 09, 2009, 06:09 PM
    Quote from: Iggy
    The point is, if they really wanted a peaceful solution, they'd have come up with one.

    What makes you so sure, Iggy? Do you think Israel is somehow omnipotent?


    They don't have to be omnipotent - just stop the settlement building, grabs for land and property and behaviour of the settlers and extremists within their own ranks.

    For years and years the Palestinians - and international community - have been pleading with the Israelis to do this - but the Israelis have just kept on year after year.

    Exactly. And Israel's actions towards ordinary Palestinians (not even in times of crisis) shows that they don't have a peaceful intention. Maybe I'd hold a different position if Palestinians weren't treated so poorly.
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #87 - January 10, 2009, 10:21 PM
    Yes. They nibble away at what's left of the ghettos they've created to pander to their zionist nutters. there's not a politician in Israel who wants to stand up to them at the moment.
    They allow them to beat up old Palestinian men and women to get them off the land their ancestors have had for generations. But of course, it must be OK because god gave it to his chosen people, and they're just taking it back, that's all.
    Belief is a cess-pit.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #88 - January 11, 2009, 12:49 AM
    There are things Israel could do right now to negate the missile threat from a defensive posture, and not have to invade, or launch airstrikes or anything.   But I think they really want a fight, just like I think Hamas does.
  • Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
     Reply #89 - January 11, 2009, 01:07 AM
    Quote from: Variable
    There are things Israel could do right now to negate the missile threat from a defensive posture, and not have to invade, or launch airstrikes or anything.


    Can you give us some examples?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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