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 Topic: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green

 (Read 10931 times)
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  • Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     OP - February 03, 2009, 11:33 PM

    A series of 4 videos of a talk by Abduraheem Green in response to a letter asking him why Allah will send good people from other religions - to Hell.

    It needs no comment. I can't see how anyone could fail to see the faults in his arguments.

    I would like to make a reply to this, but I think anyone who (manages lol) to watch the whole thing can see it for himself/herself.

    Part 1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c2FIYV9QL88&feature=related

    Part 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qGfIgkrP7KU&feature=related

    Part 3: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xpPLEpSLL1U&feature=related

    Part 4: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=t_0Nne99Te8&feature=related





  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #1 - February 04, 2009, 12:40 AM

    I cant watch it as they block YouTube at work. But I won't watch it anyway and not because the idea that a merciful god would send good people to hell is fucked in the head (which it is). My pigheaded intolerance is directed at Mr. Greene himself. Even when I was a devout Muslim I detested Green because of his arrogance. I remember one lecture where he said that he expected his wives to stay at home unless they absolutely had to go out (he gave the example of getting formula for the baby). He added that even if they had to go out they would have to be in full niqaab. The other lecture I heard had him referring to the Dalai Lama as "the Dally Lama" and ridiculing him. I don't give a fuck about the Dalai Lama but one thing I can't stand and never could stand is the "my god can beat up your god, your god can suck on my rod" mentality (that's actually the name of some punk track I remember from the 80s). One of Islam's drawcards for me was it's universality.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #2 - February 04, 2009, 04:41 AM

    In a business you hire people who apply for the job. Humans never asked to exist. It was "God"s decision to create them. Now they have no choice but to follow him or pay. How is that just? How is that a choice?

    The business anology is also flawed because, in real life, there are many places/people you can work for. But in Islam, there is none other than God, or so they teach. In a business, you pay someone, and find out that they are working for another business/person. But since there is none other than "Allah", who are you following? Since there is no other existence than this, what "other business" could you be working for? NOthing.

    SO that means, when youre working, youre only really affecting the world that exists, which is Allah's world. And if youre doing a good job, what does it matter that you thought you were working for another business/God? You did all that was required, so now you will be punished just because you didnt aim for the right person? The only thing that proves is that God is vain, and selfish. Not merciful and just at all...






    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #3 - February 04, 2009, 04:59 AM

    Secondly, if you know for sure that Allah is the only God, why would you worship anyone else? it makes no sense. The only reason why you would worship anyone else, is that you believed THEY were the Creator. That means you dont know or dont believe that Allah is God.

    So this entire time, youre working for another business, but youre doing this because you think THEY are the ones paying you. So youre going to punish them for something they werent aware they were doing? for such an honest mistake?



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #4 - February 04, 2009, 05:08 AM

    I have seen many video's of him before, and yes he IS arrogant. Not to mention he kinda looks like Jeebus   Lmao  But he is a very ignorant person, and he doesn't understand the theory of evolution for shit. He claims that its satanic because it says we come from MONKEYS!! Which is not true lol. Either way, an ignoramus and a twat.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #5 - February 04, 2009, 05:21 PM

    I cant watch it as they block YouTube at work. But I won't watch it anyway and not because the idea that a merciful god would send good people to hell is fucked in the head (which it is). My pigheaded intolerance is directed at Mr. Greene himself. Even when I was a devout Muslim I detested Green because of his arrogance. I remember one lecture where he said that he expected his wives to stay at home unless they absolutely had to go out (he gave the example of getting formula for the baby). He added that even if they had to go out they would have to be in full niqaab. The other lecture I heard had him referring to the Dalai Lama as "the Dally Lama" and ridiculing him. I don't give a fuck about the Dalai Lama but one thing I can't stand and never could stand is the "my god can beat up your god, your god can suck on my rod" mentality (that's actually the name of some punk track I remember from the 80s). One of Islam's drawcards for me was it's universality.


    I don't blame you for not being able to watch it he is so up his own arse it is unbearable. His attitude is typical of these Salafi types. I also hate the way they sneer and giggle at every other religion then demand respect for theirs.

    But, what is most revealing about his answer is the long-winded round-about way he answers it. When someone can't give a straight answer to a straight question, one has to wonder why.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #6 - February 04, 2009, 06:11 PM


    But, what is most revealing about his answer is the long-winded round-about way he answers it. When someone can't give a straight answer to a straight question, one has to wonder why.



    As well as the obvious answer to this, it is also because they are so arrogant & sure of themselves that they see no problem in doing so..

    Does anyone know his background?

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  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #7 - February 04, 2009, 06:24 PM


    But, what is most revealing about his answer is the long-winded round-about way he answers it. When someone can't give a straight answer to a straight question, one has to wonder why.



    As well as the obvious answer to this, it is also because they are so arrogant & sure of themselves that they see no problem in doing so..

    Does anyone know his background?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdur_Raheem_Green


    Abdul Raheem Green, formerly Anthony Green, born 1962 [1] or 1964 [2], is a British convert to Islam and Islamic lecturer.

    Born in Dar-es-salaam in Tanzania to British parents [2], his father (born in England), Gavin Green, was a colonial administrator in the then extant British Empire. At an early age he moved back to the UK with his parents. His mother is of original Polish origin [3] [4].

    At the age of ten he attended a Roman Catholic Monastic boarding school at Gilling Castle and then went onto Ampleforth College and went on to study history in the University of London. However, he left his education unfinished in an effort to devote himself to Islamic works.

    He became dissatisfied with Christianity at the age of eight with it not making sense to him Green researched and practiced many religions [6] [3] [4], including Buddhism (for three years) before converting to Islam. [2]

    Whilst in Britain his father in 1976 began working for Barclays Bank International and was subsequently sent to Cairo, Egypt, to set up a branch of the bank there.

    His study of the Qur'an immediately attracted him to Islam leading to his conversion in 1988. He has given Da'wah in Britain since then. [2] [7].

    Green worked for five years in the London Central Mosque and Islamic Cultural Centre as the Visits and English Dawa Co-ordinator, but now runs a consultancy, Green and Chambers Consulting, with his friend and fellow convert to Islam Yusuf Chambers, as well as making regular appearances on PeaceTV and Islam Channel.

    Green had two wives, now one, who is British-born Muslim of Pakistani origin and has eleven children. Currently, he is working with an Islamic media company based in England and engages himself in da?wah activities including lectures on Islam in London?s famous Hyde Park. He is well known for his efforts at the renowned "Speaker?s Corner" in London?s Hyde Park. [2]

    Whilst claiming two wives, Green was asked in an interview: Does not the British law prohibit bigamy? Green responded "It does. Yet several Britishers are bigamists. But those who practise bigamy can protect the second marriage under the provisions of 'common law wives'. Under this children out of such marriages are legitimate and wives inherit property."[8]
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #8 - February 04, 2009, 06:30 PM

    I would have checked on wiki myself, but did not think they would bother devoting an entry to him.. how wrong I was, what has he done that makes him worth mentioning?

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  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #9 - February 04, 2009, 06:43 PM

    `
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #10 - February 04, 2009, 06:48 PM


    Anyway think we should campaign to get Hassan on Wikipedia,Provided you are ok with it, of course, Hassan..

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  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #11 - February 04, 2009, 06:50 PM

    Anyway think we should campaign to get Hassan on Wikipedia,   Provided you are ok with it, of course, Hassan..


    LOL... not too sure about that... let me give it some thought.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #12 - February 04, 2009, 07:06 PM

    Go on, it'll put you on the map with the big boys... worship

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  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #13 - February 04, 2009, 09:02 PM

    Go on, it'll put you on the map with the big boys... worship


    Well since you are prostrating to me and all...

    LOL

    Nah, don't think so... hehe
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #14 - February 04, 2009, 09:36 PM

    Nothing - but anyone can put in an entry. My ex's husband has an entry...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Thomson




    Just read the first bit of the Wikipedia entry for Ahmad Thomson.

    It makes depressing reading.

    Why is that almost all converts seem to have been hit really hard with the insanity stick?  wacko
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #15 - February 04, 2009, 10:07 PM

    Strange mob the Murabitun although Aisha Bewley is a good translator. I'd be interested to know how she justifies the sexist and other unsavoury traditions she translated in Malik's nefarious Muwatta.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #16 - February 05, 2009, 02:24 AM

    Nothing - but anyone can put in an entry. My ex's husband has an entry...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Thomson




    Just read the first bit of the Wikipedia entry for Ahmad Thomson.

    It makes depressing reading.

    Why is that almost all converts seem to have been hit really hard with the insanity stick?  wacko


     Roll Eyes I get tired of this meme. Crazy converts are more noticeable than all the crazy Desis and Arabs walking around b/c they stand out so much.

    Isn't Ahmad Thomson part of that whacko Ian Dallas group?

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #17 - February 05, 2009, 02:30 AM

    Quote
    Isn't Ahmad Thomson part of that whacko Ian Dallas group?


    Yes, that is the Murabitun

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #18 - February 05, 2009, 09:26 AM

    I am trying to hold my tongue re-whacko murabitun and converts comments - suffice to say I agree with whats been said - I just don't want to start saying things (I might later regret ) on a public forum, about people around me/connected to/have influence over my children and other family members etc...

  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #19 - February 05, 2009, 09:51 AM

    OK I edited the 4 videos down to ONE.

    It is faithful to what Abdurahim Green said and the arguments he made in defence of sending good people to hell.

    I think it stands as a much better testament to absurdity of the belief in Hell than any anti-Islam criticism could put forward.

    I have posted it on a friends account.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TLYJyuwZCg&feature=channel
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #20 - February 05, 2009, 10:03 AM

    OK I edited the 4 videos down to ONE.

    It is faithful to what Abdurahim Green said and the arguments he made in defence of sending good people to hell.

    I think it stands as a much better testament to absurdity of the belief in Hell than any anti-Islam criticism could put forward.

    I have posted it on a friends account.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TLYJyuwZCg&feature=channel


    You must watch from 6:59 minutes to the end.

    He describes Hell.

    I defy anyone to worship such a God.

  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #21 - February 05, 2009, 10:31 AM

    Quote
    You must watch from 6:59 minutes to the end.

    He describes Hell.

    I defy anyone to worship such a God.


    That's totally sick. It makes sense only if God is a complete arsehole. Could anything be less merciful? Allahu Alim.

    At least Islam is more sensible in that regard than Christianity where Allah sends you to Hell even though he loves you (cause you didn't believe He tortured his son for you). Is it my fault if if I'm not written in the Book of Life? I went through a "believing in God even though I thought he was an arsehole" stage. After all, His 'Beautiful' Names include al-Jabbar which apparently means the tyrant in Arabic.

    Islamic teaching would have you tortured even for droplets on your pants. I have never pissed standing up at a urinal since I read this. Of course someone might say it's merely a device to teach cleanliness. This is actually one of the good things. I don't want no droplets in my daks or on my duds after I do a shake and zip - even if I don't believe I'm going to Hell for it.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #22 - February 05, 2009, 10:48 AM

    Islamic teaching would have you tortured even for droplets on your pants. I have never pissed standing up at a urinal since I read this. Of course someone might say it's merely a device to teach cleanliness. This is actually one of the good things. I don't want no droplets in my daks or on my duds after I do a shake and zip - even if I don't believe I'm going to Hell for it.


    LOL... I still worry about that am always so careful  Cheesy
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #23 - February 05, 2009, 11:16 AM

    Well, many Christian denominations also hold the view that good people from other faiths or other denominations go to Hell.

    To the best of my knowledge, these are the only two faiths with this viewpoint. The first Abrahamic faith Judaism teaches "The righteous of all nations have a place in the world that is to come."

    So Pascal's wager might still fail if it turns out that Islam and not Christianity is the correct faith and Allah is the right God.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #24 - February 05, 2009, 12:19 PM

    So Pascal's wager might still fail if it turns out that Islam and not Christianity is the correct faith and Allah is the right God.


    If you want to follow Pascal's wager then you could believe in both, a variant of each where they do not become mutually exclusive to one another.

    I still cant get over Green's excitement over describing Hell, he looked like he was getting off on it and about to wet himself

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  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #25 - February 05, 2009, 12:43 PM

    The best comment on hell I've ever heard was in a Woody Allen movie where he is sent to hell and he comes across his father.  Upon asking his father why he ended up in hell, he replies, "I don't know!  I'm Jewish!  I don't believe in hell!"

    IMO we are all already in hell as we as a race have done a pretty good job of turning our planet into a living hell with all our silly wars, global warming, etc...  Oh yeah!  Let's not forget to add religions to the list! 

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #26 - February 05, 2009, 02:12 PM

    The analogies he uses, such as paying a man to do a job, but he works for someone else deserves to be sacked - can only make sense if those who reject God actually believe in him but decide to reject him anyway.

    Otherwise the analogy is paying a man to do a job which he is totally unaware of and is in fact totally unaware he even has an employer!

    If that was the case then it is the employer who is at fault. He has failed to make his position crystal clear and undeniably obvious.

    Perhaps God should be sent to Hell forever, crying in agony and pain.

    Though if it came to such a ridiculous scenario, none of us would do such a thing - even to a monster of a God as the one described in Islam and Christianity.

    That's because we are human and for all our failings - most of us have evolved far above and beyond the God that was constructed by our ancestors over 2000 years ago (and perpetuated ever since.)
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #27 - February 05, 2009, 02:18 PM

    The best comment on hell I've ever heard was in a Woody Allen movie where he is sent to hell and he comes across his father.  Upon asking his father why he ended up in hell, he replies, "I don't know!  I'm Jewish!  I don't believe in hell!"

    IMO we are all already in hell as we as a race have done a pretty good job of turning our planet into a living hell with all our silly wars, global warming, etc...  Oh yeah!  Let's not forget to add religions to the list! 


    Spot on, Nour!
  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #28 - February 05, 2009, 02:47 PM

    The analogies he uses, such as paying a man to do a job, but he works for someone else deserves to be sacked

    Yes that is a very poor analogy, I am sure even I could think of a better one.  He only has got away with it for so long, because of muslims' blind belief, fear of being labelled as a Kaphir and because he is a celebrated convert.

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  • Re: Do Good People Go To Hell? Abdurraheem Green
     Reply #29 - February 07, 2009, 05:47 AM

    Islamic teaching would have you tortured even for droplets on your pants. I have never pissed standing up at a urinal since I read this. Of course someone might say it's merely a device to teach cleanliness. This is actually one of the good things. I don't want no droplets in my daks or on my duds after I do a shake and zip - even if I don't believe I'm going to Hell for it.


    LOL... I still worry about that am always so careful  Cheesy

    It was very liberating when I stopped caring and started to pee standing up and use the urinal again Cheesy. 'The Most Merciful' sure is anal isn't he? Punishment for drops of piss Roll Eyes.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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