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 Topic: Fear of Hell

 (Read 35073 times)
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  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #90 - April 18, 2009, 05:34 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    You forgot to answer me how "Sun-burning someone's skin off for eternity is any more acceptable than burning their skin off?

    As for proving if the non-existence of Hell would lead to more rapes, killing etc... You first need to prove Hell exists and that people refrain from raping and killing because of it.

    I don't believe in Hell and surprising as it may seem I have never had the urge to go on a raping and killing spree.

    I suspect that if you did a survey of rapists and murderers you would find that they contain much the same ratio of people who believe/don't believe in Hell as is found in the majority of the population who don't do these things.

    You are not making much sense, Kope.

    Have you ever wondered if you could be wrong?

  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #91 - April 18, 2009, 05:39 PM

    For crying out loud, is every muslim on the Internet a hadith denier?


    I think most are not overtly Hadith-deniers - I mean they are not formally members of that sect which really is tiny.

    But many internet Muslims have found it an irresistibly convenient way of dodging the bullets in an on-line debate. They can always revert back to a 'hadith accepter' once they come to a hadith that proves their point.

     
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #92 - April 18, 2009, 05:41 PM

    @KOPE

    Can you please answer my question?
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #93 - April 18, 2009, 05:41 PM

    if agree with hadiths i take or reject them


    And there you have it!

    Nice hadith = authentic hadith.

    Nasty Hadith = false hadith.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #94 - April 18, 2009, 05:58 PM

    if agree with hadiths i take or reject them


    And there you have it!

    Nice hadith = authentic hadith.

    Nasty Hadith = false hadith.


    Aka cherry picking. 

    And as Allat pointed out, that will only get you so far before you come across a bit in the Qur'an that raises the same problem as a nasty hadith.  And all these mental gymnastics because kope fears he will turn into a rapist and a murderer if he just faces facts!  Roll Eyes

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #95 - April 18, 2009, 06:26 PM

    I wish the Church of England would concentrate more on mentioning Hell. It is hardly ever mentioned. I must speak to my local vicar about this.  He rarely even talks about Heaven.

    I think that Hell is frightening, and it does scare me. I do not think I am a bad person. Perhaps in one way I am a heretic from Anglicism, because I think that there are degrees of sin and there should be degrees of Hell. I love Dante's Divine Comedy and think of Hell as being like that, with different regions of different intensity, depending on what we did in life. I also like the idea of Purgatory, where the souls of the dead can  earn points and eventually go into Heaven. God did not make us to punish us, unless we really offended His principles.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #96 - April 18, 2009, 06:32 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?





    Well Kope, its because of Empathy for starters.
    Empathy is the foundations of good morals
    People without empathy are called sociopaths.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #97 - April 18, 2009, 06:36 PM

    God did not make us to punish us, unless we really offended His principles


    What are these principles that deserve eternal torture if broken?

    Do you think an eternity of torture is reasonable?

    Do you think a God who tortures part of his creation for ever is a God of Love?
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #98 - April 18, 2009, 06:45 PM

    I wish the Church of England would concentrate more on mentioning Hell.


    Yes, I agree, I wish they would talk about Hell more as I'm sure more people would be put off Christianity when they reflect on such an utterly disgusting concept and they would realise that the sadistic monster of a God who would do this is a fiction.

    Well apart from a very few who seem to find nothing wrong with the idea of Hell.

    Would you approve of this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4mZXfRMI0U&feature=PlayList&p=7DFBD282364E19A0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #99 - April 18, 2009, 06:57 PM



    They found the most talented actors to play in their death cult advertisement, eh?  hahaha

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #100 - April 18, 2009, 07:00 PM

    Why? Why must you believe in a god?


    I would rather leave this for another thread. But briefly I am sort of an Agnostic Deist. My default position is I don't know and think we can never really know in this life - but I do 'feel' there is 'something' more - call it God if you will - though I dislike the word God as it is far too loaded.

    Why does it bother you that I am not an Atheist?


    It doesn't. I'm just surprised considering what you've [said].

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #101 - April 18, 2009, 07:32 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?





    Well Kope, its because of Empathy for starters.
    Empathy is the foundations of good morals
    People without empathy are called sociopaths.


     desires over come morals

    people dont kill, rape, robe because fear of jail and hell

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #102 - April 18, 2009, 07:35 PM

    desires over come morals

    people dont kill, rape, robe because fear of jail and hell

    So you would kill, rape & steal if you didnt believe in hell?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #103 - April 18, 2009, 07:35 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    The notion of hell is pure nonsense.I have a question for you. Why does GOD create evil when he hates evil so much? Well If there was no evil then would hell be required?



    do you know what is evil?

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #104 - April 18, 2009, 07:41 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    The notion of hell is pure nonsense.I have a question for you. Why does GOD create evil when he hates evil so much? Well If there was no evil then would hell be required?



    do you know what is evil?


    Ofcourse I do . How does that answer my question though?
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #105 - April 18, 2009, 07:41 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    You forgot to answer me how "Sun-burning someone's skin off for eternity is any more acceptable than burning their skin off?

    As for proving if the non-existence of Hell would lead to more rapes, killing etc... You first need to prove Hell exists and that people refrain from raping and killing because of it.

    I don't believe in Hell and surprising as it may seem I have never had the urge to go on a raping and killing spree.

    I suspect that if you did a survey of rapists and murderers you would find that they contain much the same ratio of people who believe/don't believe in Hell as is found in the majority of the population who don't do these things.

    You are not making much sense, Kope.

    Have you ever wondered if you could be wrong?




    most believers avoid doing evil because of fear hell

    Quote
    Have you ever wondered if you could be wrong?



    yes, i could be wrong anything which i say and believe and even about god existance

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #106 - April 18, 2009, 07:47 PM

    desires over come morals

    people dont kill, rape, robe because fear of jail and hell

    So you would kill, rape & steal if you didnt believe in hell?



    thats why people do those thing

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #107 - April 18, 2009, 07:49 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    The notion of hell is pure nonsense.I have a question for you. Why does GOD create evil when he hates evil so much? Well If there was no evil then would hell be required?



    do you know what is evil?


    Ofcourse I do . How does that answer my question though?




    please tell me what is evil than i be able to answer your question

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #108 - April 18, 2009, 07:55 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    The notion of hell is pure nonsense.I have a question for you. Why does GOD create evil when he hates evil so much? Well If there was no evil then would hell be required?



    do you know what is evil?


    Ofcourse I do . How does that answer my question though?




    please tell me what is evil than i be able to answer your question


    Murder ,rape etc etc is evil according to me. Now the question is how GOD Creates them ? WOuld the humans be doing those crimes if GOD had created the humans who would not resort to them ? IF GOD had created humans in such a way that they never would do those things there would have been no evil.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #109 - April 18, 2009, 07:59 PM

    most believers avoid doing evil because of fear hell


    So what would happen to people if you took the fear of Hell away?

    And... How is "slowly sun-burning someone's skin off, over and over again for eternity any better than burning their skin off with fire?

    And what evidence do you have for this claim when the Qur'an clearly says it will be fire (Nar).
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #110 - April 18, 2009, 08:12 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?





    Well Kope, its because of Empathy for starters.
    Empathy is the foundations of good morals
    People without empathy are called sociopaths.


     desires over come morals

    people dont kill, rape, robe because fear of jail and hell


    Kope, I'm sorry, but that is simply not correct. It may be true that in some cases it does, however, when this happens desire overcomes religion as well.

    The fact you need to accept first is that you are not wired to want to kill, rape, and so forth. There are good neurological reasons that most people have an extreme aversion or disgust of causing pain to others.
    When dealing with psychopathic behavior, there have been
    functional MRI studies that have shown that in aggressive or sociopathic people a specific and very strong activation of the amygdala and ventral striatum (an area that responds to feeling rewarded) when watching pain inflicted on others, which suggested that they enjoyed watching pain.
    Unlike normal people, the ones tested with conduct disorder did not activate the area of the brain involved in self-regulation and moral reasoning.
    However, to a psychologically healthy person inflicting pain on others has the opposite effect.

    In other words: Hurting other people makes us feel bad
    Helping other people makes us feel good

    This is the reason many people suffer from psychological trauma from fighting in wars. Even on a lesser scale, it is why when a police officer shoots someone...even a rapist..., in the line of duty, they still have to go to a counseling session, to make sure they are ok.

    but putting aside all the scientific stuff,you can do a simple thought experiment.

    Imagine you are in a lab. You need to take a puppy, and cut off its head, while it is still alive (for some reason), and you only have a knife.
    You will not be in trouble at all, in fact this needs to be done (IDK, to cure cancer or something).
    God will not be mad at you and the law will not punish you. Mind you, while you are doing this, the animal will be awake and responsive.

    First off would you volunteer to do the procedure, if there were other people around who would? Would you rather not?

    Second, what do you do:
    1) Take the knife and begin sawing
    2) ask that the puppy be anestetized first

    If you answered 2, why?  

    Third:
    How do you think you would feel, during and after the procedure?
    Would you find it make you feel good or bad?

    Keep in mind, this is something done to an animal and it is in fact an important job. So there is NO moral hangup...but still, psychologically, how would it make you feel?
    Now, keep that in mind, and remember that murdering and raping an innocent person would be much worst than that.

    After answering those questions, does the idea of empathy and natural compassion make more sense to you?

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #111 - April 18, 2009, 08:13 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?




    The notion of hell is pure nonsense.I have a question for you. Why does GOD create evil when he hates evil so much? Well If there was no evil then would hell be required?



    do you know what is evil?


    Ofcourse I do . How does that answer my question though?




    please tell me what is evil than i be able to answer your question


    Quote
    Murder ,rape etc etc is evil according to me.

     


    god did not created this thing

    Quote
    Now the question is how GOD Creates them ? WOuld the humans be doing those crimes if GOD had created the humans who would not resort to them ? IF GOD had created humans in such a way that they never would do those things there would have been no evil.

     


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45wFy4_fU5o





    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #112 - April 18, 2009, 08:19 PM

    kope, You might find this interesting:

    Quote
    Traits that we view as moral are deeply embedded in the human psyche. Honesty, fidelity, trustworthiness, kindness to others, and reciprocity are probably primeval characteristics that helped our ancestors survive. In a world of dangerous predators, early man could likely thrive only in cooperative groups. Good behavior would almost certainly strengthen the tribal bonds that were essential to survival. We can reasonably postulate that what we now call morality is really a suite of behaviors favored by natural selection in an animal weak alone but strong in numbers. Morality is our biological destiny, not a gift from god.

    Despite abundant evidence to the contrary, human beings are inherently moral creatures, as our sociality would demand. Our inherent good, however, has been corrupted by the false morality of religion. For millennia religious doctrine has manipulated us with divine carrots and sticks. If we misbehave, we are threatened with the hot flames of hell. If we please god, we are promised the comforting embrace of eternal peace. Under the burden of religion, morality has become nothing but a response to bribery and fear. We have forsaken our biological heritage in exchange for coupons to heaven.

    There exists for those willing to see a new perspective a deeply satisfying purpose and meaning to life free from any divine influence. To glimpse this world, imagine for a moment that there is no invisible man in the sky using magical powers in "mysterious ways" to control our fate. Imagine that we can toss away the crutch of false hope and bad myth to walk unhindered down the path of personal responsibility. Without the burden of a wrathful god, we have the power to create our own meaning, our own sense of purpose, our own destiny. By rejecting the false premises of religion we are free to move beyond the random hand we are dealt at birth to pave our own road to a better life.


    This is from this article: Morality Originates in Religion...Not

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #113 - April 18, 2009, 08:20 PM

    @KOPE

    I will view that video tomorrow and post my response too. ITs late here now . I need to sleep. See you tomorrow here itself. Smiley
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #114 - April 18, 2009, 08:35 PM

    About the video with abdul raheem green: perfect example of the mental gymastics and analogies that a believer must cling to in order to justify such an evil thing as hell to themselves. My favorite part is when he compares GETTING FIRED to being sent to hell to BE TORTURED FOR ETERNITY. Because those are totally the same thing  Roll Eyes 

    If he wants to draw a proper analogy he should say "Imagine you can see the future and know that if you hire this person to do a job they won't follow your instructions and will work for someone instead while still taking your money. You hire them anyways. Then, when they betray you like you KNEW they would, you burn the person and torture them for ETERNITY."
    Yes Mr Green, I can see now how that is totally fair.

    Kope, since Allah will forgive ANY sin (including rape, murder, theft...) and the only thing keeping you from doing these things is your belief in Him, then can't you just do them anyways and then repent sincerely when the fear of hell gets to you? The only sin that he doesnt forgive is shirk, right? Rather than hell being created to punish people who do bad deeds, it seems its greatest purpose is to punish something as trivial as disbelief.

    @Homer:
    nice explanation of empathy, I think I'll use it next time I'm trying to get through to someone.


    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #115 - April 18, 2009, 08:51 PM

    Quote from: Hadith Qudsi 38

    On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said:
    When Allah created Paradise and Hell-fire, He sent Gabriel to Paradise, saying: Look at it and at what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants. The Prophet (pbuh) said: So he came to it and looked at it and at what Allah had prepared therein for its inhabitants. The Prophet (pbuh) said: So he returned to Him and said: By your glory, no one hears of it without entering it. So He ordered that it be encompassed by forms of hardship, and He said: Return to it and look at what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants. The Prophet (pbuh) said: So he returned to it and found that it was encompassed by forms of hardship (1). Then he returned to Him and said: By Your glory, I fear that no one will enter it. He said: Go to Hell-fire and look at it and what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants, and he fount that it was in layers, one above the other. Then he returned to Him and said: By Your glory, no one who hears of it will enter it. So He ordered that it be encompassed by lusts. Then He said: Return to it. And he returned to it and said: By Your glory, I am frightened that no one will escape from entering it.

    (1) The Arabic word used here is "makarih", the literal meaning of which is "things that are disliked". In this context it refers to forms of religious discipline that man usually finds onerous.

    It was related by Tirmidhi, who said that it was a good and sound Hadith (also by Abu Dawud and an-Nasa'i).


    I just came across this hadith and found it quite shocking... does it not make it crystal clear that Allah WANTS people to go to Hell? He disguised hell to make it look more attractive, how vicious is this?

    Incidentally, would an all-knowing God need to hear Gabriel's opinion to determine if his creation would have the effect he wanted? Gabriel even seems more concerned with the fate of humans and more merciful than Allah.  Huh?

    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #116 - April 18, 2009, 11:20 PM

    most believers avoid doing evil because of fear hell


    So what would happen to people if you took the fear of Hell away?





    human will commit more crime without guilt

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #117 - April 18, 2009, 11:28 PM

    god saying skin will be peel like on earth, if you stay in the sun for long time your skin will come off


    I don't understand what you mean?

    Are you saying the punishment is not so bad because it will just be like being sun-burnt for ever?

    That doesn't make it any better? It is still cruel to keep someone alive just so you can "lightly strip off his skin" for ever.

    Do you think this makes it OK?

     

    if there is no hell than nothing wrong  about killing,raping robing,    if i like all those thing for my satisfaction


    prove me if i am wrong about that?





    Well Kope, its because of Empathy for starters.
    Empathy is the foundations of good morals
    People without empathy are called sociopaths.


     desires over come morals

    people dont kill, rape, robe because fear of jail and hell


    Kope, I'm sorry, but that is simply not correct. It may be true that in some cases it does, however, when this happens desire overcomes religion as well.

    The fact you need to accept first is that you are not wired to want to kill, rape, and so forth. There are good neurological reasons that most people have an extreme aversion or disgust of causing pain to others.
    When dealing with psychopathic behavior, there have been
    functional MRI studies that have shown that in aggressive or sociopathic people a specific and very strong activation of the amygdala and ventral striatum (an area that responds to feeling rewarded) when watching pain inflicted on others, which suggested that they enjoyed watching pain.
    Unlike normal people, the ones tested with conduct disorder did not activate the area of the brain involved in self-regulation and moral reasoning.
    However, to a psychologically healthy person inflicting pain on others has the opposite effect.

    In other words: Hurting other people makes us feel bad
    Helping other people makes us feel good

    This is the reason many people suffer from psychological trauma from fighting in wars. Even on a lesser scale, it is why when a police officer shoots someone...even a rapist..., in the line of duty, they still have to go to a counseling session, to make sure they are ok.

    but putting aside all the scientific stuff,you can do a simple thought experiment.

    Imagine you are in a lab. You need to take a puppy, and cut off its head, while it is still alive (for some reason), and you only have a knife.
    You will not be in trouble at all, in fact this needs to be done (IDK, to cure cancer or something).
    God will not be mad at you and the law will not punish you. Mind you, while you are doing this, the animal will be awake and responsive.

    First off would you volunteer to do the procedure, if there were other people around who would? Would you rather not?

    Second, what do you do:
    1) Take the knife and begin sawing
    2) ask that the puppy be anestetized first

    If you answered 2, why?  

    Third:
    How do you think you would feel, during and after the procedure?
    Would you find it make you feel good or bad?

    Keep in mind, this is something done to an animal and it is in fact an important job. So there is NO moral hangup...but still, psychologically, how would it make you feel?
    Now, keep that in mind, and remember that murdering and raping an innocent person would be much worst than that.

    After answering those questions, does the idea of empathy and natural compassion make more sense to you?



    i agree with you most of thing you said but  fear of hell still number one reason people dont do crime

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

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  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #118 - April 18, 2009, 11:36 PM

    i agree with you most of thing you said but  fear of hell still number one reason people dont do crime

    This sounds like a made up statistic.

    Especially if you consider all the present and past cultures that do not believe in heaven or hell, yet managed to have social order just like the heaven/hell believers.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Fear of Hell
     Reply #119 - April 18, 2009, 11:37 PM

    I have no fear of hell and I don't commit crimes.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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