I don't think Rashna is treating all muslims as a single group , but there is a real problem in parts of Britain , including my own neighbourhood of East London , where an increasingly vocal islamist faction , encouraged by well meaning but misguided attempts at 'tolerance ' , has succeeded in imposing their own values . And the people really suffering as a result are their british born children , especially the daughters .
Well, your first query was answered by Islame, so I won't quote or answer that. Anyway, thanks for your comments-as a Brit citizen, a completely non religious person & someone significantly older to me, you cannot be blamed for lacking first hand experience, maturity or even accused of religious biases-maybe accused of supporting the B
NP though, which I do not think you do!
Or maybe accusing someone's family members & friends when you spoke of people in your neighbourhood starting a vocal Islamist faction with attempts at takeover!
However, it seems like anyone who disagrees with you in any way is somehow an apologist for the Islamofascists or blind to realities or hates Zoroastrians or something.
From what I remember you say you are 14 years old. Perhaps you need to consider that as an eighth or ninth grader, you make errors and don't know everything, and I say that as someone who wishes that had been made clear to her when she was your age.
I have said this & I repeat again, I am not a devout, believing & practicing Zoroastrian, this is another baseless assumption. Why do we have to be labeled into one of the multiple groups victimized by Islam worldwide if we simply happen to dislike Islam? I do identify myself as a cultural Zoroastrian when asked about my religion & I have liked loads of stuff in that faith, just like I admire quite a few stuff in plenty of other faiths-in their founder, theology, mythological stories, history,ability to survive despite intense persecution, capacity for reform, universal salvation, educational benefits & so forth.
I find stuff in practically
all of Zarathushtra's words which can touch me many millennia later, I certainly do not like many of the later additions made to the texts in later eras by the Pre Islamic Persians. I have found plenty of stuff in the later additions which are difficult to digest as a modern person with my dispositions-& thats' what I have said in my intro thread & in other threads.
I am also unsure about God(s) or the Devil's existence-& I'm glad Zoroastrian scriptures don't condemn me to Hellfire for that belief. I am also aware that had I not been born into a half Zoroastrian heritage, I would not in all probability even be aware of the faith, let alone practice it & I'm glad that all those folks have the same afterlife according to Zoroastrian scriptures. (
sidenote:Zoroastrian scriptures I don't, can't & don't even attempt to wholly believe in, & the trait of universal salvation is shared by many faiths-including Judaism).
Yes, I do dislike Islam, which I remember someone saying is no crime, which I agree. I certainly won't harass, ridicule or deport individual Muslims & I believe one cannot or should not interfere with others religious beliefs as long as they don't hurt anyone &
we need to treat every single individual Muslim with the exact same dignity & human rights as we treat people of other faiths or no faith. I personally do not find much reason to respect Islam, or even remain neutral about it.
I also feel that there is quite a bit about Islam which might well make one not have a favorable opinion about it. I don't think many will come away with an extremely unfavorable opinion about Jain theology after a thorough reading of Jain scriptures, or absolutely detest the founder of Christianity- Jesus after reading the NT even if they dislike much in Christian scriptures or a few of Jesus' words, or one will hate the way Jews currently practice their faith, irrespective of its Scriptures, or dislike very much in Bahai scriptures & practices.
Its possible to feel poorly about Islam-even if one isn't a right wing bigot of any race or nationality with very good reasons.Yes I know Islam provides a great deal of comfort or solace to many & I certainly don't go about abusing or ridiculing their scriptures or Prophet without invitation-infact I refrain from doing so to my grandpa as it would needlessly hurt him even though he preaches to me. If however I'm on a message board, or in conversation with a dawa giving Muslim, I will probably make my views clear.
As for my age & naivete, I'm sure that could well make me ignorant about a few issues. So are all other people, regardless of age, an older person could well be senile! This is an ageist thing, but unlike race or sex which are unchangeable, I'm sure I will grow more knowledgable as I grow older.
Thanks for advising me as a person more mature in years & I mean it. We all have our blind spots, regardless of age, sex,race or otherwise. I remember the Bukhari hadith I had quoted, which even without the parenthesis had Ayesha stating that she & Muhammad were intimate when he died-& there was absolutely no reference to al Salah which would be difficult considering the position he was in but there was certainly quite a bit about their love making.
While it was perhaps dumb of me to assume that it was an intense love making session that killed him or increased his sickness-it is a Sahih Bukhari hadith that he & Ayesha were in an intimate love making session when he was ill & passed away, as narrated by Ayesha, the sole spectator herself.
I have learnt many stuff from your lovely posts too, though you are not as active as me, all your posts have been brilliant & I sincerely mean that!
Everyone who disagrees with me is certainly no apologist-but if there are additions to my words to make them mean something that I have neither stated or implied-its not something which delights me. I didn't say Muslims come to the West with sinister intentions of takeover, although I did say that they do often impose their values once they are in the West or are very vocal in their opposition to stuff like Motoons, which a Westerner raised on a diet of Monty Pythons might well find unpalatable-an opinion someone like aife-who's a self professed irreligious person, lives in a Muslim majority neighbourhood, also happens to share.Neither of us lumped all Muslims into a single, homogenous category or blamed any individual Muslims, let alone speak of harassment or deportation.
Yes I know that Islam is a faith which Latin American ancestry or ethnicity isn't. I also know that as Islam is a faith, its possible to quit or change one's views or one's seriousness about practicing the faith, become an extremely liberal person from a seriously practicing one for instance.
I have said in many posts that there are plenty of extremely tolerant Islamic nations & given illustrations in support of this position. Yet its a present reality that a significant numer of Muslim majority states aren't so & anyone who's aware of this might find it unpleasant.
We had a poster here who made a brief appearance saba 7 saba 7-while I didn't agree with everything he said-he claimed to have a wide experience of travelling in many Muslim nations & had a Muslim wife. He said that the number of interfaith marriages in Britain where the woman was Muslim was pretty low & a faith can't really claim to be tolerant if it did this which I agree with. I too think that there's a double standard & religious discrimination in allowing Muslim men the right to marry non Muslim women, but not vice versa. Men are mostly required to convert, which they do for marriage. Again, I made no sweeping generalizations in this case, & gave illustrations where it wasn't so, including the Aga Khan's daughter or my own parents.
I also said that a person who's spent a substantial part of their life living in Muslim nations which denied them equality or who have been at the receiving end of Islamic persecution which hasn't even been acknowledged, let alone atoned for might well not like the discrimination they've suffered & might not be particularly fond of Islam, even theough they're otherwise very fond of multiculturalism & tolerance.I don't think Robert Spencer is a super tolerant person, but his grandparents were survivors of the Armenian Massacre, unacknowledged to this day. People like Baal on our forum, who grew up in Egypt, people from Iran & Singapore whom I've met fall into this category & their reading of Islamic scriptures certainly hasn't done much to change their opinions & I can't blame them for that either.-they're certainly not supporters of any fundie religious agenda but their unpleasant experiences might well have colored their opinions & they're certainly no racist bigots either. This again is no slur on individual Muslims, but I find it difficult to believe that discrimiation happens without the support of the majority in Muslim nations.
If someone had a poor experience with a few Unitarian Universalists-I'm sure quite a few would agree on reading their theology that it certainly does not justify or condone any vile actions. One can't say the same about Islamic scriptures, its history or founder & his sahabas so I don't & can't really blame Baal for not putting in good words about Islam.
Its a sad but undeniable that that plenty of Muslim nations deny their non Muslim citizens the same rights of inter faith marriage or apostasy-sometimes even attire.
If an Astaghfirullah said in his hilarious intro post that it was a brave, brave thing for the members of this forum to quit Islam, I do think that he knows what he is talking about-as a person who's lived in both Saudi & Britain. He too is irreligious & I remember he ridiculed YEC's somewhere.
Astaghfirullah has lived in Islam's birthplace-we have an ex Catholic Tlaloc here who comes from the Land of the Vatican-Italy. I doubt many who have lived in Italy will dub quitting Catholicism an
extremely brave thing to do.
Incidentally, Saudi's neighbour Yemen too has the death penalty for apostasy & is a poor nation sending out economic migrants. While I'm sure not everyone in those nations shares the view that quitting Islam requires death, I find it hard to accept that laws would remain without the support of a significant mass of the population.
Short version: it's a bit much to start claiming persecution (like Muslims love to
) just because someone tells you that you're not perfect. Take a deep breath and go smell the flowers. They most likely have not been booby-trapped by jihadis.
Sure, I'm imperfect, so's everyone else-we all have our blind spots. But I certainly never claimed that all Muslims come to the West with sinister intentions of takeover-those aren't words I said & I just wanted to clarify that.
I also have a bit of first hand experience-& others with more first hand experience who too aren't sinister BNP types seem to think the same about increasingly vocal Islamists imposing their values with their limited capacity.
I guess I'll follow your & fading's advice-take time off to smell the flowers, there's no need to go out of the way in justifying myself in what is supposed to be a purely entertaining board.
everyone & sorry if this is all rambling & repetition!
Topic: Some Honest Opinions: