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Theme Changer

 Topic: Abortion?

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  • Abortion?
     OP - June 04, 2009, 09:53 PM
    What's your opinion about it?

    Could you ever abort?
    Could you ever help a friend/girlfriend/wife abort (moral support, economic support, whatever)?

    I am very much involved in this issue in first person, so I would like to have the opinion of complete strangers from other cultures.

    Thanks in advance <3

    PS: this is a bit off topic since the forum is Women IN ISLAM, but since it's a quite feminine matter I thought I'd place it here anyway.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #1 - June 04, 2009, 10:22 PM
    I'm pro, because i cant bear the thought of a child being brought up in an unloved & uncaring environment. 
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  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #2 - June 05, 2009, 12:30 AM
    I told my dad today that he should have used a condom or had me aborted.

    He got well pissed, said 'how dare you talk about such a disgusting thing with your father' and 'if I knew you had turned out this way then I would have'. 

    That was really really epic.

    I support it because I want my own life taken back. Why couldnt I have been adopted :(.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #3 - June 05, 2009, 04:23 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 04, 2009, 09:53 PM
    What's your opinion about it?

    Could you ever abort?



    I could answer that but the answer would probably bear no basis because I know a lot of women who think "I'm going to have an abortion" but when it comes to it, they can't bring themselves to do it. Everyone is different, and I believe that I could never make that decision unless I was put in that position.

    Quote
    Could you ever help a friend/girlfriend/wife abort (moral support, economic support, whatever)?



    If they wanted my support, I would give it to them without judgment.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #4 - June 05, 2009, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 04, 2009, 10:22 PM
    I'm pro, because i cant bear the thought of a child being brought up in an unloved & uncaring environment. 

    I agree, but... why not carry on with the pregnancy, give birth, and give the little human for adoption?
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #5 - June 05, 2009, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 04, 2009, 10:22 PM
    I'm pro, because i cant bear the thought of a child being brought up in an unloved & uncaring environment. 


    That's pretty much it for me too. I'm pro-choice. Given that in today's world, for most people, it's ridiculously easy to get and use contraception, and that there are millions of children already existing who are unwanted, malnourished or otherwise could use our help, I see no reason for more unwanted children in the world.

    Besides the moral implications, as much as I support men's rights, and I do, since it is ultimately a woman who carries and nurses the child, the decision has to be her's whether she wants to or can give birth to and raise another human being.

    People romanticize parenthood, it's not all hugs and cupcakes and birthday parties. It's hard work, it's a lifetime commitment of time, money, energy, and not everyone who becomes pregnant can or should take on such a serious, massive, permanent commitment.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #6 - June 05, 2009, 08:20 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 05, 2009, 08:02 AM
    I agree, but... why not carry on with the pregnancy, give birth, and give the little human for adoption?


    Because there are many children who remain in foster care and adoption homes for a fair portion of their life and they don't get the love and attention that they need.

  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #7 - June 05, 2009, 08:39 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 04, 2009, 09:53 PM
    What's your opinion about it?

    Could you ever abort?
    Could you ever help a friend/girlfriend/wife abort (moral support, economic support, whatever)?

    Could do. Have done. I assume that covers the first two questions as well.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #8 - June 05, 2009, 08:45 AM
    Quote from: heartbomb on June 05, 2009, 08:20 AM
    Because there are many children who remain in foster care and adoption homes for a fair portion of their life and they don't get the love and attention that they need.

    So... ending life earlier when the brain is way underdeveloped is a better fate than becoming fully conscious and leading a probably unhappy life?
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #9 - June 05, 2009, 09:42 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 05, 2009, 08:45 AM
    So... ending life earlier when the brain is way underdeveloped is a better fate than becoming fully conscious and leading a probably unhappy life?

    I would say yes. Why bring an unhappy person into the world? What if they end up suffering from abuse or neglect by their parents? We all know how shoddy social workers are at protecting kids. Also as far as I'm aware foster kids are more at risk of committing crimes.

    The world is over-populated as it is anyway. We're predicted to have food shortages in the future.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #10 - June 05, 2009, 09:54 AM
    Definitely pro.  No government should legislate what a woman can or cannot do with her own body.  Also with overpopulation being an issue why should there be more unwanted children in this world than there already are?

    My life would definitely be much different today if abortion were illegal.  I would most likely be a very unhappy mother trying to eke out a meager exisitance whilst trying to raise a child in a stable environment with the odds stacked against me.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #11 - June 05, 2009, 10:33 AM
    I'll summarize the situation.

    A young friend of mine (18 yr old) just immigrated here for study reasons and found out she is pregnant (from her bf who lives in her home country) and decided to abort, so I am helping her out with the complex bureaucracy and the costs.

    She could never have the resources to grow a kid all by herself here, so aborting seems a logical solution.
    But I am worried about how well her conscience could cope with it. She already stated that she will most likely feel guilty about it for her whole life.

    As a side note, abortion is illegal in her home country.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #12 - June 05, 2009, 11:11 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 05, 2009, 08:02 AM
    I agree, but... why not carry on with the pregnancy, give birth, and give the little human for adoption?

    Because there is a strong possibility the mother will not have the heart to give it to a random stranger, and look after it, despite the same conditions existing for not wanting it in the first place.  So again we may have a scenario of a child growing up in a negative environment.
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  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #13 - June 05, 2009, 11:12 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 05, 2009, 08:39 AM
    Have done.

    Why, and any regrets?
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  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #14 - June 05, 2009, 11:13 AM
    I'm definitely Pro choice. A woman should have the right to deicide what is best for her and her family within certain term limits.
    However saying that, I couldn't bring myself to recommend it to anyone, except in a couple instances. Such as from pregnancy via rape or if doctors diagnose the foetus to be severely abnormal with no possiblity of a meaningful life.

    Tlabloc if your friend thinks she could feel guilty for the rest of her life, then why not go thru with the preganacy and put the child up for adoption? I believe there is a shortage, especially new borns, for adoption in many countries. Not sure where you are though.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #15 - June 05, 2009, 11:16 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 05, 2009, 08:45 AM
    So... ending life earlier when the brain is way underdeveloped is a better fate than becoming fully conscious and leading a probably unhappy life?

    Yes, and dont forget that these unloved children will later be independent adults in society. The knock-on effects may continue not just with their own families, but with society at large.
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  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #16 - June 05, 2009, 12:16 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on June 05, 2009, 11:13 AM
    Tlabloc if your friend thinks she could feel guilty for the rest of her life, then why not go thru with the preganacy and put the child up for adoption? I believe there is a shortage, especially new borns, for adoption in many countries. Not sure where you are though.

    Two reasons:
    First, she doesn't think she will be able to give a kid up for adoption after growing it inside herself for 9 months.
    Second, she does not want her family to know she got pregnant because of cultural "honor" issues. And they would eventually find out because in her school there are a couple of girls from her same city, the information would spread.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #17 - June 05, 2009, 12:29 PM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on June 05, 2009, 12:16 PM
    Two reasons:
    First, she doesn't think she will be able to give a kid up for adoption after growing it inside herself for 9 months.
    Second, she does not want her family to know she got pregnant because of cultural "honor" issues. And they would eventually find out because in her school there are a couple of girls from her same city, the information would spread.


    Well that's a tough one. Its really difficult to give advice in such a case unless you really know the person, the support they have and the problems that might arise from the family.

    My advice, would be to have the baby. As long as her life is not in danger. Sometimes a baby can bring a family together but I don't know the family.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #18 - June 05, 2009, 12:47 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on June 05, 2009, 12:29 PM
    Well that's a tough one. Its really difficult to give advice in such a case unless you really know the person, the support they have and the problems that might arise from the family.

    My advice, would be to have the baby. As long as her life is not in danger. Sometimes a baby can bring a family together but I don't know the family.


    If there are honour issues then I doubt a baby will bring the family together, honour goes above family.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #19 - June 05, 2009, 08:30 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on June 05, 2009, 12:29 PM
    Well that's a tough one. Its really difficult to give advice in such a case unless you really know the person, the support they have and the problems that might arise from the family.

    My advice, would be to have the baby. As long as her life is not in danger. Sometimes a baby can bring a family together but I don't know the family.



    That's quite a gamble to take with another human being's life. What if that doesn't work and the child grows up abused, neglected and suffers his or her whole life because mother didn't think of what may have been best for him/her? Tlaloc, our friend is young, she made a mistake, she needs to learn from it, but not by passing her mistake to another human being who will suffer for her mistake. I'd say, let her get the abortion as early as possible to avoid later doubts of the term. Help her learn about contraceptives and self esteem, so she doesn't make this kind of mistake again.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #20 - June 05, 2009, 09:55 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 05, 2009, 11:12 AM
    Why, and any regrets?

    Because it seemed like the best option. No regrets at all.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #21 - June 05, 2009, 10:02 PM
    Quote from: ExHindu on June 05, 2009, 12:30 AM
    I support it because I want my own life taken back.


    Just because you want your own life taken back, doesn't mean everyone will feel that way. It's hardly a reason to be pro-choice.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #22 - June 05, 2009, 10:06 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on June 05, 2009, 09:42 AM
    I would say yes. Why bring an unhappy person into the world? What if they end up suffering from abuse or neglect by their parents? We all know how shoddy social workers are at protecting kids. Also as far as I'm aware foster kids are more at risk of committing crimes.

    The world is over-populated as it is anyway. We're predicted to have food shortages in the future.


    In that case why don't we secretly drug half the world and then euthanatize them all? I mean, you never know what hardships such people might come across if they stay alive. And the world is over-populated as it is anyway.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #23 - June 05, 2009, 10:11 PM
    Quote from: Nour on June 05, 2009, 09:54 AM
    Definitely pro.  No government should legislate what a woman can or cannot do with her own body.  Also with overpopulation being an issue why should there be more unwanted children in this world than there already are?

    My life would definitely be much different today if abortion were illegal.  I would most likely be a very unhappy mother trying to eke out a meager exisitance whilst trying to raise a child in a stable environment with the odds stacked against me.


    There are reports of women who had an abortion after being raped and they feel like their bodies have been abused twice over, too.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #24 - June 05, 2009, 10:14 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 05, 2009, 11:11 AM
    Because there is a strong possibility the mother will not have the heart to give it to a random stranger, and look after it, despite the same conditions existing for not wanting it in the first place.  So again we may have a scenario of a child growing up in a negative environment.


    We might well have such a scenario, but it's just too hypothetical to go by. It's like arguing for the euthanatization of the globe. What happens if humanity would undergo more strife than happiness?

    And anyway, adoption agencies do care about who they're giving children to for adoption.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #25 - June 05, 2009, 10:28 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on June 05, 2009, 10:11 PM
    There are reports of women who had an abortion after being raped and they feel like their bodies have been abused twice over, too.

    Which is why the choice should be left up to the woman in question.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #26 - June 05, 2009, 10:31 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 05, 2009, 10:28 PM
    Which is why the choice should be left up to the woman in question.


    What about the choice of the unborn child?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #27 - June 05, 2009, 10:40 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on June 05, 2009, 10:31 PM
    What about the choice of the unborn child?


    So the choice of a person who doesn't yet exist in the world is more important than the choice of a person who is actually already here? And how do you know how many people wish they had never been born? ExHindu is not the only one.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #28 - June 05, 2009, 10:46 PM
    It doesn't get one.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Abortion?
     Reply #29 - June 05, 2009, 10:47 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on June 05, 2009, 10:11 PM
    There are reports of women who had an abortion after being raped and they feel like their bodies have been abused twice over, too.


        What about finding yourself pregnant when you didn't want to be , having to deliver the baby of your rapist , and possibly raising a child that reminds you of it every time you look at them ? I know some women have done this but I don't think I could . It would certainly be a lot more traumatic than a quick medical procedure involving a bunch of cells
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