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 Topic: B4 BB!

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  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • B4 BB!
     OP - June 06, 2009, 11:56 AM
    Before Big Bang! Huh?

    I tried very hard to find information that I could understand about this "not so easy to understand" topic and I am really still very puzzled!!! Huh? Huh? Huh?

    What was there before the BB?

    I found some discussion about Parallel Universes and still don't get it. What are these Membranes or Branes and how they collided to give birth to the BB. And how do scientists find out about these theories. If you have a good source that explains it by (preferably with illustrations) or easy to understand video, please let me know!!
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #1 - June 06, 2009, 11:59 AM
    You wont get an "easy to understand" version. No such critter exists. It's a brain-bending subject.
    I'll try and track down some links for you.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #2 - June 06, 2009, 12:00 PM
    What Os said....I tried reading A Brief History of Time and put it down after 2 pages because it just wasn't getting through.
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #3 - June 06, 2009, 12:00 PM
    Nobody knows what happened before the BB.  That's one of the questions that the Large Hadron Collider is hoping to answer.  I'll look for some You Tubes later.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #4 - June 06, 2009, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on June 06, 2009, 12:00 PM
    What Os said....I tried reading A Brief History of Time and put it down after 2 pages because it just wasn't getting through.

    You should have persevered. It was well worth reading IMO. I enjoyed it.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #5 - June 06, 2009, 01:01 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 06, 2009, 12:55 PM
    You should have persevered. It was well worth reading IMO. I enjoyed it.


    It's still on my 'to-read' list...I am so bad at keeping myself engrossed when it comes to physics now...maybe because I have to read so much of it for my course   Cheesy
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #6 - June 06, 2009, 01:08 PM
    Yes I can see that reducing your enthusiasm.  grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #7 - June 06, 2009, 01:32 PM
    Where is  "A Brief History of Time"?
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #8 - June 06, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 06, 2009, 01:32 PM
    Where is  "A Brief History of Time"?


    I don't know if it's available as an e-book. I have a copy of the book lying around at home...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #9 - June 06, 2009, 02:45 PM
    You can read the Brief History of Time here-
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/4051954/Stephen-Hawking-A-Brief-History-of-Time

    If it doesn't make sense to you then here's the dumbed down version of it; A Briefer History of Time-
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/11243992/Stephen-Hawking-A-Briefer-History-of-Time

    At the moment I think the Big Bounce is the strongest theory about what happened before our universe. It basically states that the universe emerged from a pre-existing universe that had been expanding before contracting due to gravity. NewScientist has a good article on it-
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026861.500-did-our-cosmos-exist-before-the-big-bang.html

    I have no idea how scientists came up with the branes stuff, or a lot of things in physics. They were probably on crack or something Tongue

    There are a lot of problems with the current theories as they don't explain why there is more matter than anti-matter; the spreading of heat in the universe; the size of the universe; etc. NewScientist has a list of some good articles about theories that attempt to explain these.

    Here's a top 10 of their weirdest cosmology theories-
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9987-top-10-weirdest-cosmology-theories.html

    And here's their top 10 2008 articles-
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16231-cosmology-top-10-articles-from-2008.html

    Also keep a close eye on the Tevatron and the Large Hadron Collider. They are both racing each other to find the 'God Particle' (aka the Higgs Boson). If they find this particle then it means reality is just virtual Wink - http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluctuations.html
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #10 - June 06, 2009, 03:28 PM
    Thanks Peruv, will go through these links
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #11 - June 06, 2009, 03:39 PM
    Hawking's has a fantastic sense of humour! Check out page 5 of his book - A Briefer History of Time Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    ~My story~
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #12 - June 06, 2009, 04:24 PM
    Thanks for the links Peru!  Afro
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #13 - June 06, 2009, 06:26 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on June 06, 2009, 02:45 PM

    At the moment I think the Big Bounce is the strongest theory about what happened before our universe. It basically states that the universe emerged from a pre-existing universe that had been expanding before contracting due to gravity.


    So eventually our universe will contract and go into a Big Crunch, then another Big Bang occurs? Is this what the Big Bounce theory is about?
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #14 - June 06, 2009, 06:40 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on June 06, 2009, 06:26 PM
    So eventually our universe will contract and go into a Big Crunch, then another Big Bang occurs? Is this what the Big Bounce theory is about?

    Basically but it has one problem, our universe is expanding faster and faster. It's unlikely it will contract. Not sure how they will solve that problem. I'll do more research on Monday when I get time and see if I can find anything.
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #15 - June 06, 2009, 06:49 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on June 06, 2009, 06:40 PM
    Basically but it has one problem, our universe is expanding faster and faster. It's unlikely it will contract. Not sure how they will solve that problem. I'll do more research on Monday when I get time and see if I can find anything.


    Actually, the term big crunch always makes me crave for a Kit Kat!! Ok I am having a break now!!! yes
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #16 - June 06, 2009, 07:29 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on June 06, 2009, 06:49 PM
    Actually, the term big crunch always makes me crave for a Kit Kat!! Ok I am having a break now!!! yes

    Hehe Tongue

    I've just found this little bit at the end of the article-

    Quote
    Will our universe bounce?
    According to the big bounce picture formulated by theoretical physicist Abhay Ashtekar and others, the cosmos grew from the collapse of a pre-existing universe. Will the same fate await us?It depends. We used to think that the universe was dominated by the gravity of its stars and other matter: either the universe is dense enough for gravity to halt the expansion from the big bang and pull everything back, or else it isn't, in which case the expansion would carry on forever. However, observations of distant supernovae in the past 10 years have challenged that view. They show not just that the universe is expanding, but also that the expansion is speeding up due to a mysterious repulsive force that cosmologists call "dark energy". So if the universe fails to contract, has it already bounced its last bounce?Perhaps not. Cosmologists are still very much in the dark about dark energy. Some theoretical models speculate that the nature of dark energy could change over time, switching from a repulsive to an attractive force that behaves much like gravity. If that happens, the universe will stop expanding and the galaxies will begin to rush together. A question mark also hangs over the universe's matter and energy density, which we have not measured with sufficient accuracy to be sure that the universe will not eventually stop expanding. If it turns out to be a smidgen greater than current observations, then it is a recipe for cosmic collapse.According to the big bounce, in both scenarios the universe will eventually collapse until it reaches the highest density allowed by the theory. At this point, the universe will rebound and begin expanding again - the ultimate in cosmic recycling.


    We're a very long way from knowing what actually happened before the big bang so I would take all these theories with a pinch of salt. The problem I have with the big bounce article is that it doesn't explain blackholes. The best explanation I can think of is that black holes in our universe have not consumed enough matter to 'bounce' back.
    ~My story~
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #17 - June 06, 2009, 09:14 PM
    If the Bouncy Castle theory is correct, then would it be safe to assume that there were previous universes with a chance of similar civilized Earth like spheres where life could have flourished? Is it possible that, some 100s of Billions of Years ago, there were people in other parts of the Cosmos or universes or whatever their names are? Thinking hard
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #18 - June 06, 2009, 09:44 PM
    Yup. Quite possible.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #19 - June 07, 2009, 05:55 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 06, 2009, 09:44 PM
    Yup. Quite possible.


    Now I wonder did they look like us or did they have 2 heads and 10 legs and were green in color? 
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #20 - July 04, 2009, 04:39 AM
    to find an easy answer is very very hard, and if someone was to give you one, it would omit so much information that it would essentially be completely different to how it really is.

    first, the big bang isn't a certain concept in physics. it's not as solid a concept as say evolution, largely because there are numerous problems still needed to be understood in order to fully understand the big bang.

    as for understanding what came before it, it's a totally impossible question to answer at this moment in time by any physicist in the world, and if they were, they'd be taking a wild stab in the dark. things still needed to be discovered by physicists include extra dimensions, even though theoretical physicists can prove extra dimensions theoretically, proving it by experiment is very hard. physicists at the large hadron collider hope that the decay and disappearance of certain fundamental particles may prove as evidence of extra dimensions.

    physics is such a vast subject and is by far the fastest growing science that the more you discover or prove, the more questions arise. the fact that scientists yet don't know how many dimensions there are in our universe, or the nature of these dimensions, nor the nature of dark matter and dark energy, as well as yet not yet having discovered a particle called the Higgs boson which would complete the standard model of physics, as well as not fully understanding the intricacies of quantum mechanics, and having still not solved all the problems with the likeliest candidate for a theory that will unify the whole of physics which is currently string theory,  makes it impossible for scientists to say what there was before the big bang.


    Oh, and if you're interested in how the universe works and so on, and you want an excellent overview of what physics knows about reality and the universe, as well as what physicists are working on, there are two great books on the universe by renowned theoretical physicist Brian Greene:

    - The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory by Brian Greene

    - The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time and the Texture of Reality by Brian Greene

    read the first one first since a good grounding in the first book helps understand the second one.


    P.S. It won't let me post links. If you're still interested PM me and i'll message them to you.
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #21 - July 04, 2009, 10:10 AM
    Welcome to the forum SharkHeart Smiley and thanks for the answer! I guess it is a very confusing topic indeed, who knows maybe in the future there will be a way of finding more about the whole BB story!
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #22 - July 04, 2009, 10:22 AM
    Thats interesting sharkheart.  I am not sure whether you can post links as a new member, but the bar is lifted after a short period
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #23 - July 04, 2009, 10:28 AM
    We can wait for your links after a few more posts from you? whistling2
    ...
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #24 - July 04, 2009, 11:59 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on June 06, 2009, 06:40 PM
    Basically but it has one problem, our universe is expanding faster and faster. It's unlikely it will contract. Not sure how they will solve that problem. I'll do more research on Monday when I get time and see if I can find anything.

    Yep. The second law of thermodynamics necessitate that even if the Big Crunch is occurring, it should eventually stop after an indefinite number of cycles. We humans lack the technology to construct a definitive cosmological model. Some scientists criticise the String Theory, too.

    I've read one of Hawking's books in Turkish, the name of the book was "The Short History of the Universe" which may or may not be the same as "The Short History of Time." Translators are an awful lot.

    Thanks for the links Peru.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #25 - July 04, 2009, 05:07 PM
    here's the links, the first two are important ones, the last two are sort of current research but they won't work if you don't have a new scientist account.

    here is what physicist Paul Davies thinks existed before the big bang: http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/big-bang.html

    here is why we can't know what existed before the big bang because of what we still don't understand about the big bang (if that makes any sense): http://www.superstringtheory.com/cosmo/cosmo4.html

    and if you're a subscriber to New Scientist magazine, you'll be able to view the following articles in full........

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19526114.800-the-universe-forgets-what-happened-before-the-big-bang.html

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026861.500-did-our-cosmos-exist-before-the-big-bang.html
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #26 - July 05, 2009, 12:17 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on June 06, 2009, 06:40 PM
    Basically but it has one problem, our universe is expanding faster and faster. It's unlikely it will contract. Not sure how they will solve that problem. I'll do more research on Monday when I get time and see if I can find anything.


    When a shrapnel bomb explodes, do the pieces accelerate to begin with or do they start decelerating immediately?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #27 - July 05, 2009, 08:41 AM
    Quote
    When a shrapnel bomb explodes, do the pieces accelerate to begin with or do they start decelerating immediately?

    They accelerate first, over a very short period of time, then decelerate slowly due to friction. But I think this analogy is irrelevant because 1. there is no friction in vacuum, 2. gravity between the shrapnel fragments is negligible due to the small mass of the fragments (and the massive mass of Earth.)

    The debate over the acceleration/deceleration of the universe has revolved around whether the initial momentum of the Big Bang can overwhelm gravitational forces. If the expansion of the universe overwhelms gravitational forces, we'd expect the universe to  have a saddle-shape and expand indefinitely. If gravitational forces overwhelm the expansion, then we'd expect the universe to be spherical, and a Big Crunch would occur. If the two are balanced, the universe would be flat like a sheet of paper.

    However, scientific findings suggest that the universe is actually accelerating faster. This is an even more bleak scenario than the saddle-shaped universe. Why? The answer is unknown.  
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  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #28 - July 05, 2009, 11:05 AM
    How did you get to those 3 scenarios about the universe being different shapes in different scenarios?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: B4 BB!
     Reply #29 - July 05, 2009, 11:22 AM
    Quote from: Zaephon on July 05, 2009, 08:41 AM
    If the expansion of the universe overwhelms gravitational forces, we'd expect the universe to  have a saddle-shape and expand indefinitely.

    If the universe is not infinite, whats it expaning into i.e. what is on the outside of the universe?
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