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Theme Changer

 Topic: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?

 (Read 61122 times)
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #150 - June 25, 2009, 10:37 AM

    Hassan,
    You owe me $3.95 plus tax in dry cleaning bills.
    I just finished watching your Conversation Between God & the Angels  video and I pissed myself laughing!

    BCheesyB


    lol... glad u liked it Smiley
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #151 - June 25, 2009, 10:39 AM

    Me too! I have sent it to many of my friends all over the world, I think it is one of the best videos I have seen for ages. The best part , is how that cute little angels every now and then says: WHAT?


    lol... those poor little innocent angels just don't get God's Divine Plan, do they! (And who can blame them lol)


  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #152 - June 25, 2009, 10:42 AM

    OK enough faffing around - I' gonna make the vid now!

    Here is the FINAL script - as you can see I made it a Top 10 - as George Carlin would say, "10 looks official' other wise they will say to me 9 miracles... get the fuck outta here!  grin12

    EDIT I am not going to record the Humpty Dumpty bit at the end though - sorry  grin12

    ---------------------------

    Many Muslims claim that God revealed scientific facts in the Qur?an, long before modern science discovered them. But if only those who make these claims did a little research they would soon discover that not one of these claims is actually true!

    Here are the main claims.

    1. The Qur'an describes the fertilization process and embyonic growth before it was known about.

    This is false. The writings of Aristotle, Hippocrates, Galen and others described these things long before the Qur?an and the Qur'an is simply drawing on knowledge prevalent at the time. In fact it appears to repeat not only the accuracies of Greek ideas, but their inaccuracies also. The Qur?an says:
    *
    ?We created Man from a drop of mingled fluid...?  (76:2)

    This sounds very much like the germinal fluid that Hippocrates spoke of when writing about male and female reproductive fluids. The Qur?an also says:
    *
    *
    ?(Man) is created from a drop emitted. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs: ? (86:6 to 7)

    This description reflects the view of Hippocrates, common in the 5th century, that semen comes from all the fluid of the body and passes through the kidneys on the way to the penis. We now know it comes from the testicles.

    It is also interesting to note that the Qur?an always mentions the sperm but nowhere does it mention the female egg or the actual process of fertilization which one would expect to be in any basic description - if it was known about by the author. The Qur?an also says:
    *
    ?Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create! (23: 14)

    This account directly follows the four stages described by Galen, writing around 500 years before Muhammad and includes his belief that bones were formed before the flesh.


    2. The Qur'an describes Iron as being sent down before it was known that meteors containing Iron fell to earth from outer space.
    *
    ?And We sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind?? (Qur'an, 57:25)

    Again this claim is false. It was common knowledge that meteors containing iron fell to earth from space.  The Ancient Egyptian word for iron was "metal of heaven" and the Babylonians had a similar word. In fact cultures as far flung as Tibet and the Aboriginies of Australia were well aware that meteors fell to earth containing iron.

    Actually all elements on Earth came from outer space. By singling out Iron the Qur?an it appears the Qur?an is unaware of this.


    3. The Qur?an describes the moon's light as reflected light long before it was known.
    *
    ?And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a Lamp? (71:16)
    *
    ?Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light? (25:61)

    The claim is that the words Nur and Muneer  mean reflected light. This is quite simply wrong. Nur means light and is used many times to refer to God Himself and so obviously cannot mean reflected light, and Muneer means to shed light and verse 46 of al-Ahzaab (33:46) makes this clear when it says Siraajan Muneera meaning ?a lamp spreading light?.

    But even if we accept the meaning they give, it was already known that the moon?s light was reflected light and 1000 years before Muhammad Aristotle describes the lunar eclipse that makes this very clear.


    4. The Qur?an mentions that salt water and fresh-water don?t mix before this was known.
    *
    ?It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.? (25:53)

    Once again there are other meanings that could be applied to this verse, but if we accept the meaning given it was already known about anyway - and 1000 years before Muhammad, Aristotle wrote:

    "The drinkable, sweet water, then, is light and is all of it drawn up: the salt water is heavy and remains behind," (Meteorology Book 2 Chapter 2)

    5. The Qur?an reveals the Big Bang before it was known.
    *
    ?Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were one piece, before we clove them asunder, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe??  (21:30)

    If this is supposed to be a description of the big bang then it is a terrible one. The "Big Bang" is not about a lump blowing up. Matter did not exist to be ?cloven asunder?
    And there was certainly no splitting of Earth from Heavens. The Earth formed 9 Billion years after the Big Bang in some tiny outpost of a vast universe. One can hardly think of a more inaccurate description of the Big Bang, than this verse.

    It does, however, follow very precisely creation mythologies that were believed in at the time of Muhammad. "According to the Sumerians,  ?the heavens had been separated from the earth..." [Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the nether world]  and the idea that the Heavens and Earth was once a "single block" that was "broken in two" was a common theme in Ancient Egypt.


    6. The Qur?an reveals that Everything comes from Water before it was known.

    Once again, this was known. Aristotle records that Thales  believed 'that it [the nature of things] is water' and Anaximander stated that life came from the sea.

    7. The Qur?an revealed that planets move in orbits.
    *
    ?It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.? (21:33)

    This verse clearly reflects the view current in Muhammad?s day that the sun, moon and planets all move round the earth. There is absolutely nothing in the verse that suggest anything else.

    8. The Qur?an reveals an expanding universe before this was known.
    *
    ?We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof)? (51:47)

    Firstly this verse is not talking about the Universe, it is talking about the sky and secondly it make no sense to suggest it means God is expanding the universe after the verse just said God has built the sky (past tense) since  the universe was already expanding 9 billion years before the sky was formed.

    9. The Qur?an reveals the gaseous state of the universe before the Big Bang before this was known.

    *
    ?Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.? (41:11)

    Firstly gas and smoke are not the same thing. Gas is a state of matter. Smoke is a collection of solids, liquids, and gases that are emitted when a material combusts.

    Secondly if one looks at the verses before and after this verse one can see that it cannot have anything to do with the gaseous state of the universe. It says God created the Earth, then he created hills on the Earth, then it says he turned to the heavens when they were smoke?

    10. The Quran mentioned the 7 layers of atmosphere before this was known.

    "It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven heavens. He has knowledge of all things." [The Qur'an, 2:29]

    First of all modern science usually specifies 5 layers not 7. But more importantly the Qur'an is clearly not talking about the atmosphere but about the heavens where the moon, sun, planets and stars are because it also says:

    ?We have adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars.? (37:6)

    And also ?... (He) made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a lamp?? (71:15-16)
     
    One hardly needs to be pointed out that the stars sun and moon are not in the Earth?s atmosphere.

    The Qur?an is clearly talking about the pre- Copernican view of the universe that regarded the earth as it?s centre with 7 heavens containing the sun, moon, planets and stars around the it.


    These are some of the main claims of Scientific Miracles in the Qur?an, but there are others.

    In fact Muslims are discovering new ones all the time. It?s not hard to do. Just open the Qur?an, pick a word or sentence and see if you can apply it to something in modern science.

    In fact one can use any book or piece of writing.


    I myself was astonished to discover that Gravitational Theory was described in the poem Humpty Dumpty.

    In the words;

    ?Humpty Dumpty sat on the Wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall?

    one can see a perfect demonstration that objects of very large mass attract objects of less mass.

    Since this poem dates back to the early 15th or 16th Century - Over 200 years before Sir Isaac Newton published his Gravitational theory - it must be a miracle and the poem Humpty Dumpty is nothing other than the revealed word of God.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #153 - June 25, 2009, 10:49 AM

    nice work, particurly the Humpty Dumpty reference to gravitational theory at the end  dance  Shame you're excluding it, but I think it could do we some kind of summary at the end, such as those discussed earlier.  You might also want to point to the fact that it is categorical evidence that Allah doesnt exist (as he would have known these things and not got them so wrong)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #154 - June 25, 2009, 12:01 PM

    nice work, particurly the Humpty Dumpty reference to gravitational theory at the end  dance  Shame you're excluding it, but I think it could do we some kind of summary at the end, such as those discussed earlier.  You might also want to point to the fact that it is categorical evidence that Allah doesnt exist (as he would have known these things and not got them so wrong)


    Yes I think Islame is right. You should include the Humpty Dumpty part because it adds a nice sarcastic flavor reminiscent of George Carlin style. At the end of the day, that is what made Carlin well known. He convinced people sometimes just by using silly and funny examples that make people think!!

    So please leave Britny Humpty Dumpty alone!!!
    Cry

    ...
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #155 - June 25, 2009, 12:34 PM

    Good job Hassan.

    I agree with Islame. Humpty Dumpty is an apt analogy of how people use scriptures to justify things after the fact.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #156 - June 25, 2009, 12:41 PM

    Humpty Dumpty sat on the bed
    Little Bo Peep was giving him head
    As he came, she started to weep
    She could tell by the taste he'd been shagging her sheep



    Humpty Dumpty fucked a fat whore,
    Humpty Dumpty fucked her some more,
    All the kings horses and all the kings men,
    Bent the bitch over and fucked her again.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #157 - June 25, 2009, 12:43 PM

    Question: how did Little Bo Peep know what sheep pussy tasted like?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #158 - June 25, 2009, 02:50 PM

    Question: how did Little Bo Peep know what sheep pussy tasted like?


    Maybe she is a sleep walker, and you never know what people are up to when they sleep walk! parrot

    ...
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #159 - July 06, 2009, 02:47 PM

    Interesting article on the "Golden Age of Islam"
    Seems most "Muslim" scientists lean towards agnostisism.

    http://iqballatif.newsvine.com/_news/2009/07/05/2998280-in-response-to-why-the-arab-world-is-not-free-




    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #160 - July 06, 2009, 03:26 PM

    Indeed - yet it doesn't stop the religious Muslims using them as adverts for Islam!
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #161 - July 14, 2009, 02:02 PM

    So I need help with this - I need to know if I am saying anything incorrect.

    You can be sure Muslims will ignore 99% of the correct information and focus on the 1% of mistakes.


    Damn right, dude.

    This is someone's wise response to your 100% Proof Islam is True? video:

    pluaboect: "Quran 9:6 And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.


    The video says Quran 9:4-6 but the 6th verse is missing"


    I saw that and thought, Allah's wrath is gonna be BIG and it's gonna be BAD!  Cry

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #162 - July 14, 2009, 07:05 PM

    OMG... I didn't know what the heck they were talking about and had to look up the video lol

    Now I can see I committed the crime of the century by putting more verse numbers than I needed to.

    Well there goes my whole argument  Cheesy
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #163 - July 14, 2009, 07:17 PM

    Lol, it's a really good video by the way. Real eye-opener. Did you spot the grammatical mistakes yourself?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #164 - July 14, 2009, 07:27 PM

    No I saw a list of them way back on some website and that one stuck in my mind coz it's really obvious and inexplicable - particularly as there are two almost identical verses with the correct declension.


  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #165 - July 16, 2009, 01:36 PM

    Someone just posted a video response to my Scientific Miracles video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PZ9diQFnDE
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #166 - July 16, 2009, 01:58 PM

    He's just engaged in one long Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.  Plus, he seems to think that because Mohammed didn't repeat Hippocrates verbatim, that he didn't get anything from Hippocrates.  But nobody is accusing Mohammed of being a scholar who would have known Hippocrates works verbatim - repeating bits of his works is quite consistent with a man who lived in a society where Greek science was known, but not universally available to the layman.  Similarly, any of us would know bits of things that have been said by Steven Hawkings, I doubt any of us know his works off by heart.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #167 - July 16, 2009, 02:00 PM

    Hassan  - he is talking absolute bollocks. You need to respond to him. Interesting he didn't touch on the other 9 scientific bullshits in the Quran

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #168 - July 16, 2009, 02:09 PM

    He may have got you a bit there since Semen comes from the Seminal Vesicle and not the testicles. But if we are to accept that the Seminal Vesicle is between the ribs and spine then certainly the entire human torso lies between the ribs and spine. Not such a wild guess to say that something in the torso area is involved in the production of jizz. Also, man is created from sperm, not semen. And semen is not water.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #169 - July 16, 2009, 02:36 PM

    Quote
    ...Also, man is created from sperm, not semen. And semen is not water....


    I was about to say that! Yes semen is just the media or vehicle that transports sperms! So the origin of the seed of man is the testicles and not the backbone or ribs!!

    ...
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #170 - July 16, 2009, 03:29 PM

    It's just nonsense - and I'm certainly not going to bother replying.

    In fact - as I said even bore making this vid - I'm definitely not making another about this subject.

    It was always a non-starter for me when I was a Muslim and I don't think it impresses anyone who really understand Islam.

    But it's funny how it's proven to be the most popular of all my vids - yet I think the others are far better.

    I guess it shows the shallow nature of the internet where ppl just waste time arguing about stupid stuff.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #171 - July 16, 2009, 06:58 PM

    I think it would have hit one of their defense mechanisms. I mean if you give your opinions on aspects of Islam then regardless of whether or not they are well-considered they can be dismissed as being just your opinion. These days science has great standing (because it demonstrably works, unlike religion) so anything that ties Islam to science is going to boost Islam in a lot of people's eyes. If you can show that is bullshit then it will cut down something that a lot of average mugs might see as boosting their faith.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #172 - July 17, 2009, 11:54 AM

    osmanthus has got a point. We live in a scientific age where science impresses. Hassan, I don't think it is surprising that your video on scientific miracles is the most popular. I think the number one argument that Islamists use to prove their religion nowadays is the scientific miracles. I remember when  a fellow pupil in my A level RE class asked me why I was Muslim and I said: "3 reasons....

    a) I believe in only one God and Islam is the only religion that believes in one God (not strictly true)

    b) The Qur'an has never changed since it was revealed (not even that amazing; certainly not a miracle)

    c) Scientific miracles in the Qur'an"

    I knew very little about the scientific miracles but I still used it as a justification for Islam. Boy was I glad she didn't ask what they were!

    It's a unique reason and it sounds impressive.



    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #173 - July 17, 2009, 12:07 PM

    I don't know whether to laugh or to cry at that video.

    "Between the front and back of the body and certainly not in the testicles"

    But the testicles are between the front and back of the body. Every organ in the body is between the front and back of the body. So where is the scientific miracle? That's like saying "Look, this old book says that the heart is somewhere in the body. And guess what! It is! This is a miracle!"

    Big thumbs down for this video. Only wishful thinking could make you accept the conclusion in this video.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #174 - July 17, 2009, 12:20 PM

    I gotta admit this is a well-made missionary video though.

    It makes you think that the in depth scientific description he provides between 1:50 and 2:35 is from the Qur'an. But it does not. In fact the only thing the Qur'an says is that the semen comes from between the front and the back of the body which is so general it's a joke to call it science. It's like saying "Look, this cup is somewhere on the table. Now that's science!" Everything in the body is between the front and the back of the body, including the testicles.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #175 - July 17, 2009, 12:49 PM

    My face is only at the front of my body....
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #176 - July 17, 2009, 12:55 PM

    ...And therefore not between the front and back of your body? In one sense you may be right but in another sense your front would be included in "between your front and back". Depends whether your thinking of three separate layers: front, middle and back (how do you know what is front and not middle and what is middle and not front?) or whether your thinking of front and back as boundaries.

    Either way, the testicles are as much between the front and back of your body as your prostate is... so the video isn't really making a point.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #177 - July 17, 2009, 01:02 PM

    (how do you know what is front and not middle and what is middle and not front?)

    Quite easily...


    I think you are simplifying this too much Wink
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #178 - July 17, 2009, 01:09 PM

    Simplify? I think you might mean complicate...

    And no it is very difficult actually... it's like distinguishing where the neck ends and the head begins.

    So how is it easy?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #179 - July 17, 2009, 01:17 PM

    Neck starts from behind and goes all the way to the front, there is nothing behind and in front of the neck is there? As for my eyes, they start from the front and end slightly inside my head, they don't reach the middle intersection of my body so therefore they are at the front. What is so complicated about this?...
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