There is no God!

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #30 - July 04, 2009, 01:15 AM

Quote from: J4m3z on July 03, 2009, 10:05 PM
Whenever I hear that name my immediate reaction is still of disgust, as bad as if I heard the name Adolf Hitler. I still find it strange how I've been a part of one culture which demonizes this figure into another culture which admires this figure.

How would we have viewed ourselves if we could have looked into the future?

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- J4m3z
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #31 - July 04, 2009, 09:36 AM

Lol I know. I remember once when I was in Morisson's whilst I was Muslim, probably towards the end of my residency in Islam and I remember looking at this pepperoni pizza I had a nightmare of me eating the night before and thinking "I will sooner kill myself than ever eat pork again"

I don't believe I am totally over it if I must say so myself. For example, last Christmas I was in M&S looking at some spiced cider amongst other curious alcoholic drinks including blueberry vodka and I bumped into someone I knew from the mosque-going days and I honestly felt ashamed that I was looking at alcoholic drinks, even inferior to him for doing so! I still have traces of that old mentality that makes me sick to the core. I hate that way of life now where everyone is nosying into everybody elses business to see if they're doing anything haraam; makes me want to vomit. I made a lot of mosque-buddies up North so whenever I go back I tend to bump into someone I know and it is awkward. I even get people I don't know sticking their heads out of car windows to scream at me for walking with an Asian girl. I used to like it up North because of the memories it holds but now I only go back for family and friends.

The unlived life is not worth examining.
- Zaephon
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #32 - July 04, 2009, 12:39 PM

Quote from: RIBS
I have visited Turkey a few years ago, and became interested in Kamal Ataturk after knowing what he did for turkey, and I wished that more Muslim countries had such a man to lead them to a more westernized society...

Which parts did you visit?

Quote from: J4m3z
Whenever I hear that name my immediate reaction is still of disgust, as bad as if I heard the name Adolf Hitler. I still find it strange how I've been a part of one culture which demonizes this figure into another culture which admires this figure.

Strange. Then again, I've seen Ataturk reviled on international Islamic forums. I do know that some Muslims, especially in India/Pakistan, had initially supported Ataturk (financially and otherwise) while he still fought against the Western invasion forces. When he started his secular reforms and abolished the Caliphate, they were quick to change their mind and condemn Ataturk as an infidel and a traitor. I am assuming that you are Pakistani?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilafat_Movement

I am very glad that the Caliphate is now dead. That was one of the best achievements of Ataturk ever. The world is bad enough without an Islamic copy of the Pope.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
- J4m3z
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #33 - July 04, 2009, 02:01 PM

Is it really strange? Just about every Muslim I have met who knows at least a little about Attaturk hate his guts. Most of the Muslims I was around were Pakistanis, though. But I don't think it is a belief exclusive to Pakistani Muslims. Do you know of any Muslims who say that what Attaturk did was good? No, I'm not Pakistani I'm White English. When I said I was a part of the culture I meant the Muslim community. You could say it isn't strictly a culture, I know, but it has it's own attitudes and influences which are deeply rooted and probably more distinct and in your face than other cultures that you would actually accept as being a culture.

The unlived life is not worth examining.
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #34 - July 05, 2009, 06:32 PM

Quote from: RIBS on July 03, 2009, 08:16 PM
Yes true but he was not as influential as Ataturk was. I liked it when he suggested that workers should ignore the fasting of Ramadan as it greatly affected the olive oil production but everybody in the Arab world rediculed him and called him kafir and that was that.

Hum, if you're interested in that sort of thing, you should look into Indonesia's founder, Sukarno. He was known to be a follower of agama jawa (javanese religion), and insisted the country be founded on traditional Indonesian principles, as opposed to islamic ones (javanese culture goes back 5000 years). He created the Pancasila (Sanskrit for "five principles") which while not perfect, did help create a more liberal enviornment than sharia would, and was able to win out over the islamists without the need of overly oppressive measures.

He was an interesting figure

Quote
Sukarno himself once said his grandmother gave him knowledge on Javanese culture and mysticism, his father gave him theosophy and Islam, while his mother gave him Hinduism and Buddhism. And Sarinah gave him humanism.

""The knowledge helped create a holistic spirituality in Sukarno's heart, which made him able to pass over theological boundaries which for centuries have kept the world's religions apart,"" noted Hindu scholar Made Titib said.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2000/12/01/seminar-shows-sukarno-someone-who-crossed-religious-boundaries.html

on an interesting site note:
Amir Sjarifuddin, a socialist and the second prime minister of Indonesia during its National Revolution, was a full out apostate (he was a muslim who converted to christianity, which upset his mother so much that she commited suicide, which does not make much sense if she was a believing muslim, but...well..people are weird).

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
- Zaephon
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #35 - July 05, 2009, 08:08 PM

Quote from: J4m3z on July 04, 2009, 02:01 PM
Is it really strange? Just about every Muslim I have met who knows at least a little about Attaturk hate his guts. Most of the Muslims I was around were Pakistanis, though. But I don't think it is a belief exclusive to Pakistani Muslims. Do you know of any Muslims who say that what Attaturk did was good? No, I'm not Pakistani I'm White English. When I said I was a part of the culture I meant the Muslim community. You could say it isn't strictly a culture, I know, but it has it's own attitudes and influences which are deeply rooted and probably more distinct and in your face than other cultures that you would actually accept as being a culture.

Well, most Turks do not hate Ataturk, except diehard Islamists. Usually, devout Muslims blame Ismet Pasha and Ataturk's other aides for the evils of "secular fascism." There are many Kemalists who identify themselves as deists, progressive Muslims, cultural Muslims, reformist Muslims, "real" Muslims etc. I have talked with left-wing Iranians who admired Ataturk. Islamists of any culture would certainly hate Ataturk, but I didn't think these sentiments were widespread amongst all Muslims.

I mentioned Pakistanis because of the incidents I've referred to above. I thought maybe Pakistanis feel that Ataturk has betrayed them when he abolished the Caliphate.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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Re: There is no God!
Reply #36 - July 05, 2009, 08:31 PM

Quote
Which parts did you visit?

I visited Istanbul (very rich in history) and been to Ankara (did not like it as much), Kara Deniz (nice) and some other touristic places!!

And for Kemal Atatork, yes you are right only Islamists and hardcore extremists who think that KA have demolished Islam in Turkey. I personally Admire him and wish that we have some cool leaders with balls of steel like KA and say enough is enough of backwardness and islamic anti-modernization crap!!!

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