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Theme Changer

 Topic: Reading List

 (Read 35649 times)
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  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #150 - February 13, 2010, 07:17 PM

    I am so frustrated right now. I just don't fekkin get Ayer man. I feel like I'm dyslexic or autistic when I read him. Why can't he just say what he wants to say in simple language. What really pisses me off about some philosophers is how they really try their hardest to make their works as unreadable as possible. What gets me more is these books have become quite popular, and it is the basic reading for my course at uni, which means a lot of people read these books and understand them, which reinforces my suspicion that I have some serious comprehension problem.

    Just been reading Ayer's language truth and logic for about 15mins. Afterwards I put the book down and just said to myself, "Admit it, you haven't learnt anything in the last 15 minutes because you don't know what the hell the guy is going on about."

    For example, he says:
    "This is however no more than a terminological difficulty, and there are various ways in which it might be met. One of them would be to make the criterion of verifiability apply directly to sentences, and so eliminate the reference to propositions altogether. This would, indeed, run counter to ordinary usage, since one would not normally say of a sentence, as opposed to a proposition, that it was capable of being verified, or, for that matter, that is was either true or false; but it might be argued that such a departure from ordinary usage was justified, if it could be shown to have some practical advantage. The fact is, however, that the practical advantage seems to lie on the other side. For while it is true that the use of the word "proposition" does not enable us to say anything we could not, in principle, say without it, it does fulfil an important function; for it makes it possible to express what is valid not merely for a particular sentence s but for any sentence to which s is logically equivalent."

    My long list of problems with this:

    1. So we are going to try and apply the criterion of verifiability to all sentences, and forget the fact that some sentences are propositions. That's what he is saying right? But then he says we wouldn't normally say that a sentence can be verified. Really? I can think of many sentences that can be verified. Maybe he means a sentence which is not a proposition when he says, "as opposed to a proposition". Wtf, why would you use that word "opposed" in that context?! So what he means is a sentence that is not a proposition?

    2. Maybe thinking of sentences that are not propositions as being verifiable is justified if there are practical advantages. I get that. But the practical advantages lie on the other side? Wtf does it mean to say the advantages "lie on the other side"?

    3. "The use of the word "proposition" does not enable us to say anything we could not, in principle, say without it"...Wtf? What's the point in saying that? So it's useless... Oh no wait, the next sentence he says is "it has an important function"

    4. It's important because it makes it possible to express what is valid not merely for a particular sentence s but for any sentence to which s is logically equivalent? Wth does that mean? So if we use the word "proposition" we can express what is valid... is he still talking about using the word "proposition" in language or is he talking about the content of a proposition now? If he is still talking about using the word proposition in language then look, I can express something valid without using the word proposition: socrates is a man, all men are mortal, therefore socrates is mortal. Done. Wth is Ayer on about?

    5. "not merely for a particular sentence s but for any sentence to which s is logically equivalent"? LOL wth is he trying to add here?

    Is it just late or something? Huh? I'm really really frustrated. Some philosophers I just find impossible to read.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #151 - February 13, 2010, 09:23 PM

    @J4mz

    I found the same thing with Ayer as well. I do like philosophy but I find that sometimes they stray way too far from reality. I prefer philosophy that can relate to some sort of reality and that I can apply it to my life somehow. I would try reading "Sense and goodness without God" by Richard Carrier.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #152 - February 13, 2010, 09:44 PM

    I was just thinking exactly the same thing. Recently I been wondering about getting an academic career in Philosophy and I'm not sure whether that would conflict or not with my view that philosophy should be more connected with reality than current trends in philosophy of language is.

    Thanks for the suggestion but I really need to get my head around Language Truth and Logic, it's compulsory reading for my course.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #153 - February 13, 2010, 09:49 PM

    Good luck, have you read Wittgenstein yet? Cheesy
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #154 - February 13, 2010, 09:56 PM

    I ought to have read him a few weeks back but I skipped it in case I felt compelled afterwards to do a Guy Fawkes just beneath where his books are kept in the library.

    Are you a student?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #155 - February 13, 2010, 09:59 PM

    I ought to have read him a few weeks back but I skipped it in case I felt compelled afterwards to do a Guy Fawkes just beneath where his books are kept in the library.

    Are you a student?


    Nah, I'm an engineer. Philosophy has always interested me though. I've thought about doing an open university course in it.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #156 - February 13, 2010, 10:06 PM

    Nah, I'm an engineer. Philosophy has always interested me though. I've thought about doing an open university course in it.


    Does it cost a lot of money Open University? And is it any good?
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #157 - February 13, 2010, 10:07 PM

    Nah, I'm an engineer. Philosophy has always interested me though. I've thought about doing an open university course in it.


    I would highly recommend reading the tractatus. After a couple of pages, it will make Ayer seem a breeze!!
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #158 - February 13, 2010, 10:10 PM

    What kind of engineer are you Omaar?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #159 - February 13, 2010, 10:15 PM

    What kind of engineer are you Omaar?


    I work in I.T networks. Routers, switches, servers and firewalls.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #160 - February 15, 2010, 10:42 PM

    I tend to buy books then never get round to reading them. Recently I bought Richard Dawkins' 'The greatest show on Earth: the evidence for evolution'. I read the first chapter and then got side-tracked. I've also been meaning to read 'The ''God'' part of the brain' by Matthew Alpher. It explores the scientific interpretation of human spirituality and God.

    I do read a lot of journal articles related to my degree program though Smiley


    Does it cost a lot of money Open University? And is it any good?


    Rough guide to cost

    I suppose it is pretty good for people who do not have time to do full-time uni and for whatever reason do not want to do a part-time on-site course either.  I know a bunch of Open University students who did an access course which then propelled them into coming to university to do a degree.



  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #161 - February 16, 2010, 12:18 AM

    Yes get reading those books you spent good money on, woman  finmad  Tongue

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #162 - February 16, 2010, 01:43 PM

    I tend to buy books then never get round to reading them. Recently I bought Richard Dawkins' 'The greatest show on Earth: the evidence for evolution'. I read the first chapter and then got side-tracked. I've also been meaning to read 'The ''God'' part of the brain' by Matthew Alpher. It explores the scientific interpretation of human spirituality and God.

    I do read a lot of journal articles related to my degree program though Smiley


    Rough guide to cost

    I suppose it is pretty good for people who do not have time to do full-time uni and for whatever reason do not want to do a part-time on-site course either.  I know a bunch of Open University students who did an access course which then propelled them into coming to university to do a degree.






    Thanks, I want to study a whole degree, will be hard with a full-time job but hey what is life for if not facing difficulties and overcoming them. And please do read Dawkins book. It's quite fab.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #163 - February 16, 2010, 01:45 PM

    Changed my mind about Ayer btw. Language Truth and Logic = very exciting read! ^.^

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #164 - February 16, 2010, 01:48 PM

    Ferrero, you are a lazy reader, me too. I used to read alot before not it just does not cut it for me... I now just tend to skip and just read chapter which interest me.

    I find audio books help. But according to my learning chart I have pragmatist learning style. I suspect maybe you are the same.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #165 - February 16, 2010, 01:54 PM

    I'm so lazy at reading, I don't even proof-read my own posts - that is commitment. lol
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #166 - February 16, 2010, 01:59 PM

    ATM I am listening to: How To Make People Like You In 90 Seconds Or Less

    Aswell as Timthy Lery: How to operate your brain.

    available on isohunt.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #167 - February 16, 2010, 11:53 PM

    So, how do you make people like you in 90 seconds or less? Wink

    I'm currently reading chapters on chapters relating to brain imaging techniques wacko
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #168 - February 17, 2010, 12:01 AM

    Its is mostly to do with social interaction, how to speak (using positive words) and appearing confident, etc, to establishing rapport, communicating with as many folks as possible, not being reclusive, etc... Basically, to sum up just don't be an arrogant prick.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #169 - February 17, 2010, 12:07 AM

    Its is mostly to do with social interaction, how to speak (using positive words) and appearing confident, etc, to establishing rapport, communicating with as many folks as possible, not being reclusive, etc... Basically, to sum up just don't be an arrogant prick.

    I wanted to quote an interesting part, which actually I have seen the channel for hypnosist use to get a some folks to rob a bank... I forgot the guys name... I can't remember his name.. But he once did the live Russian Roulette on channel four.

    Anyway:

    Quote
    Pick a Really Useful Attitude - one that you know will be
    useful when you first meet someone. It can be curious,
    resourceful, warm or patient, or any attitude you think
    will work for you. But it must be one that you have
    experienced at some time in your life and can recall
    on demand.

    2. Find a comfortable spot, quiet and not too bright, where
    you won't be disturbed for 10 minutes. Sit down, place
    both feet on the floor, breathe slowly into your abdomen
    (not your chest) and relax.

    3. Now you're ready. Close your eyes and picture a time in
    your life when you felt the attitude you have chosen.
    In your mind's eye, make a picture of this specific event.
    Put in all the detail you can remember. What was in the
    foreground and background? Is the picture sharp or fuzzy,
    black-and-white or color? Is it large or small? Take your
    time and make it as real as you can. Now step into that
    picture and look out through your own eyes. Take note of
    what you see.

    4. Next, bring up the sounds associated with this picture.
    Notice where the sounds come from: the left, the right, in
    front or behind? How loud or soft are they? What kinds of
    sounds are they? Music? Voices? Listen to the tone and
    the volume and the rhythm. Listen deeply, and the sounds
    will come flooding back. Listen to the quality of each
    sound and try to hear how it contributes to your chosen
    attitude.

    5. Bring in the physical sensations associated with the event:
    the feel of the things around you, the air temperature,
    your clothing, your hair, what you're standing or sitting
    on. Next, notice the feelings inside your body. Where
    do they begin? Perhaps they move around in your body.
    Move your concentration deep into these wonderful
    feelings and enjoy them. Ride with them. Notice any
    smells and tastes that want to be included, and savor
    them, too.

    6. With your "outside" eyes still closed, look out through
    your "inside" eyes again at the scene. Make the pictures
    sharper, brighter, bolder and bigger. Make the sounds
    stronger, clearer, purer and more perfect. Make the feelings
    stronger, richer, deeper, warmer. Follow the intensity
    of the feelings if they move from one place to
    another, then loop them back to the beginning and
    intensify them. Loop them over and over as they get
    stronger and stronger. Let the feeling flood all over you.

    7. Make everything twice as big and strong and pure. Then
    double it again. And again. Now your whole body and mind
    are luxuriating in the experience of it all. Seeing it, hearing
    it, feeling it. Make the sensations as strong as you can,
    and just when you can't make them any stronger, double
    them one more time and clench your fist hard and fast as
    you anchor the height of the experience to your trigger.
    Feel the sensations pour through you. Intensify them
    again, then clench your fist at the height of the feelings
    and release. Relax your hand and feel the sensations pour
    through your body. Do this one more time, then relax your
    hand and the rest of your body. Come down in your own
    time and relax.

    Wait a minute or so, then test your trigger. Make a tight
    fist and notice the feelings rush into all your senses. Test it
    again after a couple of minutes. You are ready to use this
    Really Useful Attitude whenever you want.

     

  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #170 - February 17, 2010, 12:15 AM

    Derren Brown. We tend to underestimate our levels of consciousness.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #171 - February 17, 2010, 12:16 AM

    OK I found the program Darran Brown the Heist:

    Full Program Channel 4 Must watch:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1V6rJ1qreA&feature=PlayList&p=Y64LqnPSAS8
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #172 - February 17, 2010, 12:17 AM

    That's extraordinary is that.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #173 - February 17, 2010, 07:39 AM

    Derren Brown is a Prophet of the Modern Age.
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #174 - February 28, 2010, 06:15 AM

    If your going fiction that is science/faith related read Contact by Carl Sagen. Long but good read.  It deals with faith, science, and proof of God while being a entertaining read.

    For balance  I would recommend Travels by Micheal Crichton.  It is an autobiographical collection of short stories and some of his short stories involve metaphysical explorations like bending a spoon and having a catus talk to him.  The last short story in a speech he gives to scientists warning them that science and religion has various things in common.  It isn't meant to convence anyone of religion mearly warn people.  Good read over all. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #175 - February 28, 2010, 04:25 PM

    I can't be arsed to read, only science books and the occasional philosophy and religion books if I'm in the mood. I prefer watching videos instead.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #176 - February 28, 2010, 04:57 PM

    Heyjustlooking recommend some good videos please Smiley
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #177 - February 28, 2010, 05:01 PM

    Heyjustlooking recommend some good videos please Smiley


    lol check out my science thread. The one on black holes if they grab your interest. Philosophy, atheism and shit go to FFreeThinker's Videos on youtube, they are legendary. Whenever I'm in the mood for watching debates I go to that channel.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #178 - February 28, 2010, 05:14 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/user/FFreeThinker

    This?
  • Re: Reading List
     Reply #179 - February 28, 2010, 05:23 PM

    Yup.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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