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 Topic: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?

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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #30 - August 31, 2009, 06:35 PM
    It's good that you have such a vast amount of knowledge
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #31 - August 31, 2009, 06:52 PM
    Quote from: fading on August 31, 2009, 06:04 PM
    What is interesting to me is that Muslims will do this with each other.  Be a Muslim who raises questions about Aisha or about the slaughter of bani Qurayza, and see how your own friends and family will turn against you, 'defending the deen', and telling you to shut up and blindly believe.  Just for asking questions or daring to admit that there are things in the life of Mo that make you uncomfortable.  'Defending the deen' is, in my experiences, code for 'shut up and believe... or else, because you might cause me to think!'



    THAT THEY DO!!! my family started lecturing me yesterday and ended up lecturing each other ahahhahahaha
    Closets after closets
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #32 - August 31, 2009, 07:32 PM
    I think it is really difficult to debate an average Muslim because they're minds are so closed off.

    What annoys me is how blame mostly seems to be the "West" or the "Jews".

    "Saudi Arabia has blood money laws so the West can at times buy their way out!"

    "Jews control all the world's money! Jews knew about 9/11 happening!"
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #33 - August 31, 2009, 08:05 PM
    "they control the media, and you fool have fallen for their mistruths"
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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #34 - August 31, 2009, 08:18 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on August 31, 2009, 07:32 PM
    I think it is really difficult to debate an average Muslim because they're minds are so closed off.

    What annoys me is how blame mostly seems to be the "West" or the "Jews".

    "Saudi Arabia has blood money laws so the West can at times buy their way out!"

    "Jews control all the world's money! Jews knew about 9/11 happening!"


    What irritates me the most is if you give them strong evidence of something that portrays Muslims in a bad light, they won't believe you for love nor money and will always just blame the anti muslim bias in the media. Yet the same people will believe the stuff about Neil Armstrong hearing the Azan on the moon and becoming a Muslim and Michael Jackson becoming a Muslim.

    I remember once on Ummah.com I was talking about the Taliban blowing up girls schools in NWFP. I provided various news reports from the UK, Pakistan and India. I showed them pictures of girls schools in the NWFP which had been blown up. I showed loads of evidence and nobody would believe me! They were just saying that the media is biased, there is no evidence it is Taliban, etc. etc.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #35 - August 31, 2009, 08:32 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on August 31, 2009, 08:18 PM
    I remember once on Ummah.com I was talking about the Taliban blowing up girls schools in NWFP. I provided various news reports from the UK, Pakistan and India. I showed them pictures of girls schools in the NWFP which had been blown up. I showed loads of evidence and nobody would believe me! They were just saying that the media is biased, there is no evidence it is Taliban, etc. etc.


    Yep - they do that all the time. "O you can't trust the Kuffar media!" - so I show them a link to an Arab newspaper - "Oh they are a puppet of the Kuffar"...

    It's called "Denial"

    They know something stinks - but instead of opening their eyes they close them and stick their fingers in their ears and go into "Denial, Anger and blame" - mode!

    Problem is they are stuck there!
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #36 - August 31, 2009, 10:19 PM
    I want to add a question for the imam, he was saying that when we talk to Muslims, we should 'get to know them' and not be offensive.  I already answered that part, but I wonder, what to do when Muslims come with the express point of preaching and debating.  They are offensive.  It doesn't happen here, but on another board I frequent.

    They come in knowing that they're going to dazzle the people - most of whom are not former Muslims - with 'science and the Quran' and all this stuff and get really angry when people don't immediately fall into sajda.  Why, people even sometimes make fun of religion while challenging them to provide proof.  I mean really, it cuts both ways.  There are Muslims who seek out atheists, and even ex-Muslims to debate.  What I have seen there is the same that I have seen when it is a non-Muslim who initiates the debate - they ignore the questions, they abandon the discussion, they censor it if they can, and they cry about 'racism' and 'xenophobia' and 'you just don't know the deen.'  I mean really.  It goes both ways.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #37 - August 31, 2009, 10:24 PM
    Quote from: fading on August 31, 2009, 10:19 PM
    I want to add a question for the imam, he was saying that when we talk to Muslims, we should 'get to know them' and not be offensive.  I already answered that part, but I wonder, what to do when Muslims come with the express point of preaching and debating.  They are offensive.  It doesn't happen here, but on another board I frequent.

    They come in knowing that they're going to dazzle the people - most of whom are not former Muslims - with 'science and the Quran' and all this stuff and get really angry when people don't immediately fall into sajda.  Why, people even sometimes make fun of religion while challenging them to provide proof.  I mean really, it cuts both ways.  There are Muslims who seek out atheists, and even ex-Muslims to debate.  What I have seen there is the same that I have seen when it is a non-Muslim who initiates the debate - they ignore the questions, they abandon the discussion, they censor it if they can, and they cry about 'racism' and 'xenophobia' and 'you just don't know the deen.'  I mean really.  It goes both ways.


    I think muslims seem to be under the impression that ex-muslims have not found the right people to debate or ask questions. When you mention the people you have spoken to and include those "enlightened" western scholars, the goal post is shifted once again and they usually might say that the question asked is incorrect. WTF?
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #38 - August 31, 2009, 11:06 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on August 31, 2009, 08:18 PM
    What irritates me the most is if you give them strong evidence of something that portrays Muslims in a bad light, they won't believe you for love nor money and will always just blame the anti muslim bias in the media. Yet the same people will believe the stuff about Neil Armstrong hearing the Azan on the moon and becoming a Muslim and Michael Jackson becoming a Muslim.


    Haha, exactly, it's like a firewall in their heads that blocks *any logical reason* against Islam but allows *any fantasy* for Islam.

    There is this popular calendar in Bangladesh where Arabic writing is formed by a bunch of trees somewhere in Germany.  banghead
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    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #39 - August 31, 2009, 11:16 PM
    When i used to work in a hospital there was this kid with six toes in each foot , and they had to remove the extra toe. In his x ray , the word Allah was so clear and formed by bones of each foot , i saw it myself .. Sometimes i recall this incident and imagine Allah on judgment day asking me ..Havenot u seen my name on the foot Of the child!!???!!  wacko
     Then i realize HOW lame it is !! , I have to put up with all the un reasonable things islam says , and preaches just cause i saw his name on someone`s bones?..
    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #40 - September 01, 2009, 03:12 AM
    Yeah, plus "miracles" like that have been reported by people of other religions too. Like this cow that's supposed to have the Hindu symbol "Om" on it:


    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #41 - September 01, 2009, 05:35 AM
    Quote from: Angel54 on September 01, 2009, 03:12 AM
    Yeah, plus "miracles" like that have been reported by people of other religions too. Like this cow that's supposed to have the Hindu symbol "Om" on it:

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    That is just brilliant. Watch the muslim put on his skeptic hat to dismiss it.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #42 - September 01, 2009, 06:13 PM
    There is the Om on the cow.

    Then there is stuff like this:



    And this:



    And other stuff like the child in Africa who suddenly started reciting the Qur'an, the hindu gods drinking milk, the virgin Mary appearing at Lourdes.

    Do you reckon the real God does not give a shit about religion and is just having a bit of a wind up?
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #43 - September 01, 2009, 06:18 PM
    Quote
    Do you reckon the real God does not give a shit about religion and is just having a bit of a wind up?


    He has to have a laugh somehow doesn't he? How on earth is he meant to pass the time in his eternal existence? dance
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #44 - September 01, 2009, 07:10 PM
    OK in regard to the OP this video gives some excellent guidelines on how to debate Christians - and will interest us here as most of it is equally applicable to Muslims.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmLcvajoBI
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #45 - September 01, 2009, 07:32 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on September 01, 2009, 06:13 PM

    Do you reckon the real God does not give a shit about religion and is just having a bit of a wind up?



    Maybe there are many gods; allah, jesus god, god of the jews, hindu gods etc and they are playing a game. Each have the right to create humans, and that human is theirs, like a chess piece, the other gods try taking their piece away and whoever has the most pieces in the end wins.

    EDIT: thanks for the video link hassan
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #46 - September 01, 2009, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on September 01, 2009, 07:10 PM
    OK in regard to the OP this video gives some excellent guidelines on how to debate Christians - and will interest us here as most of it is equally applicable to Muslims.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmLcvajoBI


    This is brilliant. Just substitute Christianity for Islam.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #47 - September 01, 2009, 09:25 PM
    Yes it's an excellent video - and I really do recommend people here watch it as it is HIGHLY relevant to us!

    As I have often said the debate with Muslims is often just so that some people can vent their anger, score points and hurl abuse.

    I think that we are all agreed here that these are not out aims, but rather reach people and hopefully make them think for themselves. Smiley

  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #48 - September 01, 2009, 09:36 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on September 01, 2009, 07:10 PM
    OK in regard to the OP this video gives some excellent guidelines on how to debate Christians - and will interest us here as most of it is equally applicable to Muslims.


    Yeah good luck with that second part-- the vast majority of atheists on YouTube (I mean the ones who post pro-atheist videos of themselves) come across as a bunch of arrogant, obnoxious twats in love with the sound of their own voice/image who spend more time thinking of arguments that will win them plenty of back-slapping from their fellow atheists than will actually convince any religious people.
    fuck you
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #49 - September 01, 2009, 09:37 PM
    I liked all 3 points made in this video, and I shall try to remember them in debates:

    i)  use the quran
    ii) discuss according to their worldview
    iii) be polite
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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #50 - October 13, 2009, 01:45 PM
    This is a common argument..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg3vokCvLDA
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #51 - October 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 01, 2009, 09:36 PM
    ...the vast majority of atheists on YouTube (I mean the ones who post pro-atheist videos of themselves) come across as a bunch of arrogant, obnoxious twats in love with the sound of their own voice/image who spend more time thinking of arguments that will win them plenty of back-slapping from their fellow atheists than will actually convince any religious people.

    John Safran: You're too stupid to be an atheist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghIU_tlX0k&feature=related


    This one is ot but its really funny:
    Door Knocking Atheists

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c&feature=related
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #52 - October 13, 2009, 02:05 PM
    I love debating Muslims, its easy because their ideas are so easy to take apart. I got quite bored of debating Muslims who were not that knowledgable so I made the effort to seek out the ones who know their stuff and guess what? It was just as easy. If you stick to 3 or 4 core points instead of going off on all sorts of tangents which most people do then it is really easy because you know exactly what they are going to say.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #53 - October 13, 2009, 02:08 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
    John Safran: You're too stupid to be an atheist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghIU_tlX0k&feature=related


    This one is ot but its really funny:
    Door Knocking Atheists

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c&feature=related

    Good vids, particularly the second one from 2:50 onwards!
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #54 - October 13, 2009, 02:49 PM

    A few points:

    (1) The level of grooming / brainwashing is immense. We are talking from the moment they are born. It is very difficult, almost unimaginable, for a non-Muslim to comprehend the level of grooming into the sureties and supremacism of Islam that takes place in the life of a Muslim.

    (2) Incomprehension that their self evidently supreme and all-else-annihilating religion can be criticised in even the smallest way.

    (3) This leads to hysteria. Hence the hysterical, irrational response.

    (4) Fear - the world is not as they are taught it is or should be. They fear the inadequacy and failure of their entire cocooned world to account for the beauty of human civilisation in all its variety and multifariousness of non-Islamic religion, culture, belief.

    (5) The patriarchal nature of Islam is absolute - a totalitarian impulse that manifests itself in attitude amongst believers.

    (6) No point in skirting the issue. Islam is intolerant of dissent, both internal and external, and intolerant and suspicious of all that is not Islamic. Mohammad and after his death the scions of Islam practised a culture of violence against those who they despised and felt threatened by.

    These are just some of the reasons why you may find it exasperating and incredibly difficult to debate with Muslims. They are all intertwined at various levels as causes and effects. I actually like to observe it all, it is interesting, and at times, fun to see.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #55 - October 13, 2009, 03:27 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
    John Safran: You're too stupid to be an atheist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghIU_tlX0k&feature=related


    This one is ot but its really funny:
    Door Knocking Atheists

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c&feature=related



    Great stuff Afro

    Debating Muslims is a waste of time, conversations always seem to end rather abruptly.
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #56 - October 13, 2009, 07:07 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
    John Safran: You're too stupid to be an atheist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghIU_tlX0k&feature=related


    This one is ot but its really funny:
    Door Knocking Atheists

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c&feature=related


    I love Safran. Have you seen the episode where he goes to the neo-Nazi HQ in California? Surprised he got out of there alive!
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #57 - October 13, 2009, 10:25 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
    John Safran: You're too stupid to be an atheist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghIU_tlX0k&feature=related


    This one is ot but its really funny:
    Door Knocking Atheists

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c&feature=related

    Lol  Cheesy
    I might try 'knocking doors' for a change. But I must say he got his point across in a brilliant way.
    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #58 - October 13, 2009, 10:34 PM
    some more..
    Attached image is missing * logic.jpg (41.78 KB, 600x600 - viewed 292 times.) Attached image is missing * eye.jpg (27.36 KB, 604x205 - viewed 277 times.)
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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #59 - October 14, 2009, 08:47 AM
    Quote from: spiral dive on October 13, 2009, 07:07 PM
    I love Safran. Have you seen the episode where he goes to the neo-Nazi HQ in California? Surprised he got out of there alive!

    Haven?t seen that one, but here is the one where he (a Jew) tries to join the KKK (and nearly succeeds):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35--Jro6LOY

    Quote from: billy on October 13, 2009, 02:49 PM
    A few points:

    (1) The level of grooming / brainwashing is immense. We are talking from the moment they are born. It is very difficult, almost unimaginable, for a non-Muslim to comprehend the level of grooming into the sureties and supremacism of Islam that takes place in the life of a Muslim.

    (2) Incomprehension that their self evidently supreme and all-else-annihilating religion can be criticised in even the smallest way.

    (3) This leads to hysteria. Hence the hysterical, irrational response.

    (4) Fear - the world is not as they are taught it is or should be. They fear the inadequacy and failure of their entire cocooned world to account for the beauty of human civilisation in all its variety and multifariousness of non-Islamic religion, culture, belief.

    (5) The patriarchal nature of Islam is absolute - a totalitarian impulse that manifests itself in attitude amongst believers.

    (6) No point in skirting the issue. Islam is intolerant of dissent, both internal and external, and intolerant and suspicious of all that is not Islamic. Mohammad and after his death the scions of Islam practised a culture of violence against those who they despised and felt threatened by.

    These are just some of the reasons why you may find it exasperating and incredibly difficult to debate with Muslims. They are all intertwined at various levels as causes and effects. I actually like to observe it all, it is interesting, and at times, fun to see.

    Now, now billy don?t be so culturally insensitive or I?ll tell Madeleine Bunting or Karen Armstrong and they are going to write a rebuttal in the Guardian. Cat fight
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