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 Topic: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?

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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #60 - October 14, 2009, 05:20 PM
    he looks interesting .. might watch more of his stuff

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9i3LZK9SZE
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #61 - October 14, 2009, 07:52 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE2Wwy8bKo
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #62 - October 15, 2009, 08:11 PM
    DOn't be dissin' Karen Armstrong. She's one of the reasons I had the courage to even think about leaving Islam...
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #63 - October 15, 2009, 08:27 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 14, 2009, 08:47 AM
    Haven?t seen that one, but here is the one where he (a Jew) tries to join the KKK (and nearly succeeds):



     wacko Perhaps that's the one I'm thinking of. I thought this clip was filmed in LA...I'm pretty sure of it. I have the whole Safran V God series, I'll look it up later  Smiley
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #64 - October 15, 2009, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: Pazuzu on October 15, 2009, 08:11 PM
    DOn't be dissin' Karen Armstrong. She's one of the reasons I had the courage to even think about leaving Islam...


    Do you mind me asking, how come? She has always appeared to me to be highly sympathetic, maybe even an apologist for Islam.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #65 - October 16, 2009, 09:12 PM
    I think ex-muslims or atheists debating muslims is still in a fairly embryonic stage. One of the main reasons is the obvious threats that coming out as an ex-muslim carries. There is also a severe lack of scholarly work on the part of ex-muslims in this field, such as books etc. Muslims tend to be far more certain of the scholarship that has been invested in their religion and sources. There is always a tafsir at the ready to try and explain away some of the harshness.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #66 - October 17, 2009, 12:02 AM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 14, 2009, 08:47 AM
    Haven?t seen that one, but here is the one where he (a Jew) tries to join the KKK (and nearly succeeds):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35--Jro6LOY



    Excellent video.  Cheesy
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #67 - October 18, 2009, 01:05 AM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on August 23, 2009, 05:18 PM
    Holy fuck, it irritates me so much. You try to talk to them, and they put their fingers in their ears and shout! They call me names, they call me a liar, and they cannot take a grain of criticism. I have debated Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and others before, but none of them act like Muslims do today. Why is it that most Muslims resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks when debating, why are they like this? Don't they realize that they are giving themselves a bad name by doing this?


    The reason why is because the vast-vast-vast majority of them never do any religious studies of any form in their life; there is a reason why when you go to universities why you don't see Muslims in Philosophy and Religious Studies classes - because it would make them confront the fact that what they were led to believe was all made up over a period of several centuries to solidify power for those in political positions.

    The problem is that Muslims are trying to prove Islam absolutely correct - that it is a universal truth. They can't accept that reality - but then again, how many of these Muslims come from backwards tribalistic societies? Reminds me of the BBC doco on gay Muslims when it only focused on south east asians and what it was really about was how backwards those interviewed were.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #68 - October 18, 2009, 05:50 AM
    Quote from: kaiwai on October 18, 2009, 01:05 AM
    The reason why is because the vast-vast-vast majority of them never do any religious studies of any form in their life; there is a reason why when you go to universities why you don't see Muslims in Philosophy and Religious Studies classes - because it would make them confront the fact that what they were led to believe was all made up over a period of several centuries to solidify power for those in political positions.


    Not necessarily true. I know many muslims who have studied philosophy and that are fairly well read. There is a reason why they still stick to Islam even after studying other religions philosophy. Most of these people already have a fixed foundation in their minds and go in with the assumption that Islam is the absolute truth. Then using Islam as a yardstick, they measure the rest of the religions just to try and solidify their own position. In terms of philosophy, remember that philosophy is based on reason which in the mind of a muslim isn't a sufficient method for attaining absolute knowledge, hence the reason why they rely on faith.

    Quote
    The problem is that Muslims are trying to prove Islam absolutely correct - that it is a universal truth. They can't accept that reality - but then again, how many of these Muslims come from backwards tribalistic societies? Reminds me of the BBC doco on gay Muslims when it only focused on south east asians and what it was really about was how backwards those interviewed were.


    What do you expect, when this is all they know and it's hammered into them from the madrassah? The ones in the villages etc really don't get a chance to explore anything else. Again it's a flawed perspective, if they tought things parrot fashion rather than objectively then this is going to be the outcome.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #69 - October 18, 2009, 06:22 AM
    Quote from: Diem on August 24, 2009, 01:04 PM
    No religion has had the balls to be as crass as Islam is since the middle ages. The others try to appear civil, but Islam shamelessly delights in its shunning of any "bida'a" that would make it appear more civilized. Not that this would make it any truer.

    Well-said, Diem!
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #70 - October 18, 2009, 06:39 AM
    "The intellectual - and thereby the rational - foundation of Islam results in the average Muslim having a curious tendency to believe that non-Muslims either know that Islam is the truth and reject it out of pure obstinacy, or else are simply ignorant of it and can be converted by elementary explanations; that anyone should be able to oppose Islam with a good conscience quite exceeds the Muslim?s power of imagination, precisely because Islam coincides in his mind with the irresistible logic of things."
    -- Traditionalist writer Frithjof Schuon, "Stations of Wisdom"
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #71 - October 18, 2009, 06:52 AM
    Quote from: Pazuzu on October 15, 2009, 08:11 PM
    DOn't be dissin' Karen Armstrong. She's one of the reasons I had the courage to even think about leaving Islam...

    Pazuzu, I'd really like to hear this story ... How Karen Armstrong Led to my Apostasy. Sounds like a lot of fun!  Wink
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #72 - October 18, 2009, 07:19 AM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on October 18, 2009, 05:50 AM
    Not necessarily true. I know many muslims who have studied philosophy and that are fairly well read. There is a reason why they still stick to Islam even after studying other religions philosophy. Most of these people already have a fixed foundation in their minds and go in with the assumption that Islam is the absolute truth. Then using Islam as a yardstick, they measure the rest of the religions just to try and solidify their own position. In terms of philosophy, remember that philosophy is based on reason which in the mind of a muslim isn't a sufficient method for attaining absolute knowledge, hence the reason why they rely on faith.


    That is why I said "Philosophy *AND* Religious Studies" - both are important and both should be taken; again, go into a non-Islam related religious studies class and find a Muslim. Its like finding a unicorn.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #73 - October 18, 2009, 02:27 PM
    For some reason many muslims believe that any criticism is a lie and that the devil is tempting them, they may not say it, but that is their concern. The fear that if they listen to you and they'll doubt even a little bit is the path to Hell. Even though it's really annoying when they do it, i don't bother debating with them anymore unless they start first.

    My advice, don't bother debating with them unless they start, then at least theres a chance they'll actually listen to you and you'll ba able to have an intellectual discussion with them.
    "Ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?
    Their eyes real close together. Eyebrow ridges. Big, furry hands and feet. 'I believe God created me in one day.'
    'Looks like he rushed it." ~ Bill Hicks
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #74 - October 21, 2009, 03:08 AM
    Quote
    For some reason many muslims believe that any criticism is a lie and that the devil is tempting them, they may not say it, but that is their concern. The fear that if they listen to you and they'll doubt even a little bit is the path to Hell. Even though it's really annoying when they do it, i don't bother debating with them anymore unless they start first.

    My advice, don't bother debating with them unless they start, then at least theres a chance they'll actually listen to you and you'll ba able to have an intellectual discussion with them.


    I think it is even simpler than that - many Muslims make being a Muslim their whole identity; any criticism of Islam is analogous to attacking the person personally.

    Then look at where they come from; Pakistan, Bangladesh - they're not real countries, they're fictions, creations, there is no national identity - this is why you find that those countries who export the terrorism tend to be from countries that are fake. All of the Arab countries are merely byproducts of colonialism - the question of what makes an Arab and Arab is still raging. Pakistan and Bangladesh were creations based on single source which that causes problems if you have a multi religious society.

    When you identity is derived from a single source - you'll view any criticism as being a threat because that is what your whole identity relies on. If you're a person who is a Muslim, British and numerous other components making up your identity - you won't feel the need to be concerned about what the other thinks.

    But this goes back to the fact that no one knows what it means to be British - who is British? how can you expect a person to integrate into a society when no one knows what it means to be British. You don't have this sort of problem in the US simply because ones national identity is easily accessible and you can bind into the collective zeitgeist with relative ease.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #75 - October 21, 2009, 05:09 PM
    The fact that it is impossible to define being British, pretty much sums up what being British is about i.e. it is an eclectic mix of thoughts, cultures and identities.
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #76 - July 28, 2011, 12:00 PM
    What irritates me most is when they keep using circular logic and get stuck in there.the moment one started using circular logic to defend his arguments, thats when i end the debate because there is nothing i can do to convince one.

    I still cant fathom the idea of accepting the Qur'an as a divine word of Allah just because an ayat in the qur'an says so, other than the Qur'an itself where is the evidence that Qur'an is the true word of Allah. None of them has given me a concrete answer and most of the time they deflect the question itself by bringing silly analogies that doesnt hold a water
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #77 - July 28, 2011, 12:12 PM
    Whoa, epic thread necromancy there Naija...
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #78 - July 28, 2011, 12:14 PM
    I swear Q-Man called Naija a 'Necro King Naija' last night on chat...

    07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
    07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #79 - July 28, 2011, 12:43 PM
     Cheesy @ Qman. Thats where i learn stuff from the elders Tongue and i thought this thread is something worth discussing
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #80 - July 28, 2011, 12:46 PM
    Quote from: Naija Infidel on July 28, 2011, 12:43 PM
    and i thought this thread is something worth discussing


    Maybe two years ago. Grin
    07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
    07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #81 - July 28, 2011, 12:53 PM
    Yeah Cheesy. But it is still a common problem(for me personally). Its like an FBI investigator revisiting a case that hasnt been solved.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #82 - July 28, 2011, 12:58 PM
    Quote from: Naija Infidel on July 28, 2011, 12:53 PM
    Yeah Cheesy. But it is still a common problem(for me personally). Its like an FBI investigator revisiting a case that hasnt been solved.


    Heh, nah don't mind me bro... I'm just messing with ya! Grin

    @Thread:

    Quote from: Naija Infidel on July 28, 2011, 12:00 PM
    What irritates me most is when they keep using circular logic and get stuck in there.the moment one started using circular logic to defend his arguments, thats when i end the debate because there is nothing i can do to convince one.

    I still cant fathom the idea of accepting the Qur'an as a divine word of Allah just because an ayat in the qur'an says so, other than the Qur'an itself where is the evidence that Qur'an is the true word of Allah. None of them has given me a concrete answer and most of the time they deflect the question itself by bringing silly analogies that doesnt hold a water


    It's because they believe the divine truth is the one and only, no if's or but's. Which is really frustrating in itself because it's just being purely ignorant.
    07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
    07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #83 - July 28, 2011, 01:05 PM
     Cheesy, no worries bro, i know you are messing with me. Tongue

    You are right, its stuff like this that discourages me from arguing with them in the first place although they are few online that tries to drag me into it.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #84 - July 28, 2011, 08:43 PM
    Never managed to have a debate with a Muslim; too intimidated.
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #85 - July 28, 2011, 09:06 PM
    With a signature like that, one wouldn't think you were. Grin

    @thread: Truth seems to be subjective...
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #86 - July 28, 2011, 09:17 PM
    Think I screwed up there lol.
    All this forum/internet terminolgy is new to me. Afro
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #87 - July 28, 2011, 10:20 PM
    Most debates with muslims go like this:

    Muslim: Why aren't you muslim?
    Me: I see no evidence for the existence of any god, let alone the god specifiacally mentioned in the quran.
    Muslim: You do not see the miracles of Islam that are in the Quran.
    Me: Refute validity of aforementioned miracles.
    Muslim: Allah has put a seal over your heart.
    Me:  Flaming mad
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #88 - July 28, 2011, 10:21 PM
    Situations like that are why my most overused phrase is, "That's what you think!"
  • Re: Why is it so frustrating to debate a Muslim?
     Reply #89 - July 28, 2011, 10:23 PM
    Also same reason why mine is 'leamme lone'.
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