The Myths of Muhammad?

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- ned
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The Myths of Muhammad?
OP - September 20, 2009, 10:15 AM

Hey all,

I'm wondering if those on this site who are very well-versed in the history of Islam and biography of Muhammad can let me know how accurate the following page is:

The Myths of Muhammad
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm

They have cited all their sources, but somehow I get the feeling that the sequence of events they present sometimes is a bit off ... and some things seem exaggerated. This perspective of Muhammad is of course skewed heavily towards his negative side -- it's not like Hassan's video on Muhammad which was fairly balanced.

Let me know what you folks think. Thanks!
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #1 - September 20, 2009, 10:25 AM

Quote from: ned on September 20, 2009, 10:15 AM
Hey all,

I'm wondering if those on this site who are very well-versed in the history of Islam and biography of Muhammad can let me know how accurate the following page is:

The Myths of Muhammad
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm

They have cited all their sources, but somehow I get the feeling that the sequence of events they present sometimes is a bit off ... and some things seem exaggerated. This perspective of Muhammad is of course skewed heavily towards his negative side -- it's not like Hassan's video on Muhammad which was fairly balanced.

Let me know what you folks think. Thanks!

When it comes to discussions and biography about Muhammad, I would much rather read something like Ibn Ishaq to get a fair and balanced picture. I try to stay away from these online renderings. I would even keep away from books written by Robert Spencer et al.
- Rashna
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #2 - September 20, 2009, 10:44 AM

I think this site is right on the mark. Hassan prefers a different attitude...catching flies with honey, I mean that its obviously difficult for Muslims to suddenly learn all these sordid stuff right? So its better to go sweet first.

If you've read Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad's life sounds just as sordid in that book, & that guy is an 8th century biographer.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #3 - September 20, 2009, 11:46 AM

Quote from: Rashna on September 20, 2009, 10:44 AM
I think this site is right on the mark. Hassan prefers a different attitude...catching flies with honey, I mean that its obviously difficult for Muslims to suddenly learn all these sordid stuff right? So its better to go sweet first.

If you've read Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad's life sounds just as sordid in that book, & that guy is an 8th century biographer.

True - It's a double edged sword really. The biography was first put down more than a century after the "events" making it dubious as an accurate historical source, adding to that it is only referred to by Ibn Hisham.

If taken at face value, it still has a problem of having very questionable deeds and actions. For muslims these events seem justified because rather than seeing them as events in and of themselves, they see them as justified events because they take the assumption that Muhammad is a prophet.
- ned
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #4 - September 20, 2009, 11:52 AM

But is Ibn Ishaq's biography accepted as canonical by orthodox Sunni scholars?
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #5 - September 20, 2009, 12:20 PM

Quote from: ned on September 20, 2009, 11:52 AM
But is Ibn Ishaq's biography accepted as canonical by orthodox Sunni scholars?

It is accepted as canonical by Sunni scholars, but remember the work as seen as devotional more than academic or a historical account.
- awais
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #6 - September 20, 2009, 09:16 PM

It is? From what I recall it's rejected, written off as mostly fabricated, a book that no longer exists, except in extracs of Ibn Hisham.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #7 - September 20, 2009, 09:29 PM

Quote from: awais on September 20, 2009, 09:16 PM
It is? From what I recall it's rejected, written off as mostly fabricated, a book that no longer exists, except in extracs of Ibn Hisham.

The muslims accept this as a traditional reading. In western academia it' largely rejected as devotional fiction.
- awais
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #8 - September 20, 2009, 10:19 PM

Hm? I know of a sister who wrote to Madinah U asking about the validity of it, and they told her not to bother.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #9 - September 20, 2009, 10:21 PM

Quote from: awais on September 20, 2009, 10:19 PM
Hm? I know of a sister who wrote to Madinah U asking about the validity of it, and they told her not to bother.

How did she take that reply?
- awais
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #10 - September 20, 2009, 10:24 PM

She trusted them and wrote it off.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #11 - September 20, 2009, 10:27 PM

Quote from: awais on September 20, 2009, 10:24 PM
She trusted them and wrote it off.

That's bad news. That would really have aroused suspician for me.
- Heyjustlooking
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #12 - September 20, 2009, 11:14 PM

Right on. I try to be objective as I can about Muhammad's life but I know that Ibn Ishaq is not considered historically reliable due to the weak chain of narrators who transmitted many of the stories found in the Sira.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #13 - September 21, 2009, 01:25 AM

Quote from: Rashna on September 20, 2009, 10:44 AM
I think this site is right on the mark. Hassan prefers a different attitude...catching flies with honey, I mean that its obviously difficult for Muslims to suddenly learn all these sordid stuff right? So its better to go sweet first.

Why do you prefer to have a go at Muslims with 'guns a blazin' attitude? Have you ever considered that there are Muslims out there whom are willing to listen, and are open minded? Sure some Muslims come at the non-believers with the 'guns a blazin' attitude, but not everyone is that way--and treating any conversation with a Muslim (or any religious folk) in the same manner, usually backfires-- because it represents one's maturity terribly.

I realize that such attitudes which you prefer, has gotten people like Berberella to become an ex-Muslim due to Ali Sina's rants, but it's also a well known fact that many Theists, as well as Atheists, reject such attitude--it's just not civil. Such way you propose only works very few times--for only those who are already on the fence anyways.

Mind you Rashna, when we talked shit about Zorostrians you took a very defensive stance, and hardly conversed and instead just defended your views. The same way works for Muslims and other theists.

Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
- Manat
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #14 - September 21, 2009, 03:45 AM

Quote from: awais on September 20, 2009, 10:19 PM
Hm? I know of a sister who wrote to Madinah U asking about the validity of it, and they told her not to bother.

There exists a difference between what the traditional sunni scholars accept as valid source material and what the salafis and wahabis accept.

[this space for rent]
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #15 - September 21, 2009, 06:15 AM

Quote from: Manat on September 21, 2009, 03:45 AM
There exists a difference between what the traditional sunni scholars accept as valid source material and what the salafis and wahabis accept.

I know Albani sifted through the hadith literature again didn't he and got derided for his effort from the sunni community. I'm not sure about the sira literature though. Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham are the two primary sources that all muslims go back to don't they. If there are any ex-shia here, then please tell us what sira you go back to? It would be interesting and is useful at pointing out if there are any incoherences.
- Diem
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Re: The Myths of Muhammad?
Reply #16 - September 27, 2009, 04:59 PM

I know its not my place to say, because I'm not out proseletyzing, but the "guns ablazin" approach does not work and most likely never will work. Its just entertainment for all the non-muslims out there. You need to approach them more softly and not scare them away. I remember when I was younger, if I happened upon an unislamic site, I would instinctively press the restart button on my computer.

Maliki yawm ul LULZ
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