Hello from EDL

Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #180 - November 13, 2009, 05:40 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 13, 2009, 05:27 PM
Just to clarify, the private messages of support on here were not from anybody that has contributed to this thread.

Also to clarify, Paloma is indeed right, I would like to see Sharia completely stamped out. There are 10 'official' Sharia courts right now, with a further 76 unofficial, I assume these figures to be uncontested. The only bone of contention is whether or not they are a threat to the legal justice system in this country.

At present, they are not. I state that quite categorically.

However, it is a separate entity to the legal justice system and this is causing division, or further division between social groups within the UK. Once there is division, communication breaks down and the 'other' group becomes demonised, and it leads to one thing, then another, then another. Before you know it, protection laws are made for one social group, and it can only get worse.

Sharia is not a solution, it is a problem, and a bloody gigantic one at that.

If it is not an immediate threat, then why keep harping on about it rather than talk about your immediate immediate issues of concern. Is it because the truth is not as inflammatory?

I am wary of your football hooligan membership (sorry your 'bodyguards' ) might get the wrong message and start muslim-bashing for fun.

You're not a very useful party as far as I am concerned, in fact a dangerous one that is spreading hate & lies and villifying a whole group of innocent people for the sake of a minority.

My Book
My Blog
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #181 - November 13, 2009, 05:47 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 13, 2009, 05:36 PM
I'd be interested to know where you got these figures.

Here's one to be going on with: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/8581818

There are plenty more about if you look. This one gives the headline article as 85 sharia law courts, where it isn't as bad as they say, there are only 10 official ones from other reading I have previously done.

Islame, the answer to your question is in the very post you quote.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #182 - November 13, 2009, 05:50 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 13, 2009, 05:47 PM
Islame, the answer to your question is in the very post you quote.

OMG You mean that as a threat?

My Book
My Blog
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #183 - November 13, 2009, 05:59 PM

It gets worse, but your last post really has confirmed my worst fear.

So you mean you have recruited polarised elements of society for a purpose, i.e. to fill their heads with exaggerated facts & propoganda, in the hope that it precipitates a situation on the street and forces the government to act now?

My Book
My Blog
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #184 - November 13, 2009, 06:05 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 13, 2009, 05:40 PM
If it is not an immediate threat, then why keep harping on about it rather than talk about your immediate immediate issues of concern. Is it because the truth is not as inflammatory?

The answer to this question and well you know it, as there weren't any other questions in your post, so stop being childish, you look ridiculous.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #185 - November 13, 2009, 06:21 PM

No, I dont know it - I was not being disingenuous, perhaps you should be a little less cryptic to avoid any such confusion.

Lets start again and answer the questions I raised, not by my words but by your own.

My Book
My Blog
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #186 - November 13, 2009, 06:29 PM

1. I already answered the question you asked in my post. I'll say it again as you appear to be struggling with the concept.
2. As I said very early on in this debate I am not interested in people who are unreachable, and you are only trying to bait, you have been since the second you entered the thread. So I don't particularly care what questions you want answering or what points you wish to raise. Throw a stick if you wish, I wont be running after it.

There are several good guys here who aren't out to bait (Hassan in particular, but there are others), so I will continue to answer his posts but not the posts of the baiters. If of course you decide to discuss things properly I will forgive all past discretions, no problem at all.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- arthur1
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #187 - November 13, 2009, 06:31 PM

Islam, I'm not asking for you to stand with us, because it is obvious that you won't, I'm just trying to get you guys to see the danger that is creeping up on this country.

The flag waving is a working class thing you know, when the unions marched they flew banners and flags, working classes like their symbols, chanting too started as a working class thing. So I think that just because there are some chants, that this is unusual behaviour. It's not.

Also, the working classes don't tend to demonstrate much, usually it's the middle-classes and they do it in a different way, Their marches are usually better organised with stewards, collecting boxes and organised chants, like what do we want and the crowd responds.

Watch some video footage of the Scargill miners strike or the poll tax riots and you'll see what I mean, so you have to accept that working class demos tend to be a bit rowdy. A bit volatile sometimes too.
arthur,
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #188 - November 13, 2009, 06:35 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 13, 2009, 05:47 PM
Here's one to be going on with: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/8581818

There are plenty more about if you look. This one gives the headline article as 85 sharia law courts, where it isn't as bad as they say, there are only 10 official ones from other reading I have previously done.

Islame, the answer to your question is in the very post you quote.

Thanks, though I suspect what they call a "Shari'ah Court" is simply Muslims going to see the local Imam of the Mosque about a marital problem.

Look, do you realise you are talking to people who were Muslims and lived and worked with Muslims?

I myself have spent over 30 years amongst the Muslim community - 15 years of that as a teacher in Islamia School (the one founded by Yusuf Islam). I know Suhaib Hasan and the other guys who are on the main and most widely recognised Shari'ah Court in the UK: The Islamic Sharia Council which was featured on television.

http://www.islamic-sharia.org/about-us/about-us-4.html

While I am TOTALLY against these courts - they are in reality a pathetic joke - and even most Muslims think so!

Yes of course we want them all stamped out, (why do you think we have gone to all this trouble of protesting against them?) but please let's keep this in perspective.
- arthur1
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #189 - November 13, 2009, 06:51 PM

Hassan, there is this group which I believe is recognised by the English courts.

http://www.matribunal.com/

Arthur.
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #190 - November 13, 2009, 06:55 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 13, 2009, 06:35 PM
Look, do you realise you are talking to people who were Muslims and lived and worked with Muslims?

Well, yes. That's precisely the reason we came here originally. To gain some perspective and insight.

Some of your members think we've come here to cause trouble, that is not the case at all.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Tony
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #191 - November 13, 2009, 06:59 PM

Pbdedl wrote
Quote
Nice bit of subterfuge earlier from Tony, the only information he game me about 'Marshy' was a link to a book on Amazon, and saying he'd been involved in football violence. So I of course saw nothing wrong with a published author, and yes some people within EDL are from football violence backgrounds. Then once I post up that I didn't see a problem he reveals that Marshy had stabbed someone and served time and all that. A clear attempt to show me as some kind of criminal cohort.

.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soul-Crew-Seasiders-Jeff-Marsh/dp/0955663008/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258134794&sr=1-1

Its quite clear in the link that he has done time for carrying out stabbings.

I have been around violent men all my life and some of them are friends,including one who worked the night club doors for 26 years and and was involved in around two thousand violent incidents.He is a well educated professional and martial artist who worked the doors to get his weekly fix.Despite being a professional with a family he wasn't worried in the slightest of being sent down for causing serious injury or death as all he was bothered about was acceptance from his peers and maintaining his status as the hardest man in his area.Men like this are psychotic,part of the two percent,the natural born killers.Good people to know if you are in a tight corner as they won't back down but not really the sort of people you would want at a peaceful protest as they will be looking for an opportunity to kick off. Now if Marshy came onto the forum and said he had renounnced violence in the way my friend has I would be quite happy to give him the benefit of the doubt but from what I have seen of his posts this isn't the case.
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #192 - November 13, 2009, 07:05 PM

Quote from: arthur1 on November 13, 2009, 06:51 PM
Hassan, there is this group which I believe is recognised by the English courts.

http://www.matribunal.com/

Arthur.

I believe it works in the same way the Beth Din courts work. A Muslim couple goes to them about a problem they want decided according to Shari'ah. The court is of course limited to things that do not contradict British Law - so for example they obviously cannot decide that someone should be stoned for adultery. In reality it is very mundane and trivial matters. They then have the decision approved by the British courts.

They are confined to marital matters and such like and are obviously not allowed to contravene British Law and are also voluntary.

It is the voluntary part that is the real problem here as many Muslim communities in the UK are very tightly knit and the pressure to conform is strong, so many women (and men) feel under pressure to 'volunteer' to go to these courts. (Actually this has been going on for years and as I say was simply couples going to see the local Imam - in fact it may have been worse in the past as it was far more hidden.)

We want these courts banned. So that Muslims are free and able to be subject directly to British Courts. In most cases that means Muslim women will be given proper consideration and understanding by a judge in a British Court and not some narrow-minded ignorant Mullah sitting in a Mosque in the midst of a community where pressure is on her to agree to things she otherwise wouldn't.

Many of the Ex-Muslims here that you are talking to have also been (and still are) living in these closed communities around the UK and are subject to this sort of pressure. In fact most of them are hiding the fact they have left Islam because of the stigma or even violence they may be subjected to by the community around them.

So you don't need to tell us about how important it is to rid this country of such things.
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #193 - November 13, 2009, 07:11 PM

Quote from: Tony on November 13, 2009, 06:59 PM
Now if Marshy came onto the forum and said he had renounnced violence in the way my friend has I would be quite happy to give him the benefit of the doubt but from what I have seen of his posts this isn't the case.

I'm sure if he were here he'd speak up for himself, he isn't so it isn't fair to discuss him in all honesty. What I will say is there have been several demo's from the EDL and the EDL have not started any trouble whatsoever. They have been peaceful.

If I thought for a second that the EDL would start violence I wouldn't go anywhere near. Not a chance.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #194 - November 13, 2009, 07:14 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 13, 2009, 06:29 PM
1. I already answered the question you asked in my post. I'll say it again as you appear to be struggling with the concept.
2. As I said very early on in this debate I am not interested in people who are unreachable, and you are only trying to bait, you have been since the second you entered the thread. So I don't particularly care what questions you want answering or what points you wish to raise. Throw a stick if you wish, I wont be running after it.

Fair enough - I think the word liberal made me unreachable- my bad. You're doing the right thing to avoid being tripped up (like you almost did before). In any case let my rants go unchallenged, I'm happy with that too.

Keep to people who are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. It wont last long - there a savvy bunch here, they could see through religion so it wont take long to unravel your primal racist instincts. How long are you going to hide behind your hooligan bodyguards, you will create a race war and you wont know what hit you. Not a legacy I would like to leave behind.

UK invited these Muslims here in the first place, there was no religion-exclusion clause stamped in their passports, and then you expect them to change their ancestral religious laws without a fight. Thats where your bodyguards come in, isnt it? Swap their tribal football teams for the British Bulldog. Not such a great idea, because in the long term they will be your undoing. But not until a lot of social harmony & goodwill has been reversed.

My Book
My Blog
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #195 - November 13, 2009, 07:17 PM

Ok I admit it.

I've been punching a muslim, evidence here:

http://www.punchinthefacebook.com/punch/anjem-choudray

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Jack Torrance
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #196 - November 13, 2009, 07:20 PM

"So you don't need to tell us about how important it is to rid this country of such things."

Worth bearing in mind, pedball, pitbull, when discussing Muslims with ex-Muslims, and also with Lord Posonby-Pisshead and Lord- stupid wanker- Ahmed. The former even used the wrong, and antiquated pronounciation of 'Muslim'. He prob still calls blcack people 'coloured' or 'negro'. Obviously well in touch then with his pet hate, when he's not claiming other people said this or that.

Oh, and I see you're back, welcome

Ha Ha.
- Tony
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #197 - November 13, 2009, 07:49 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 13, 2009, 07:11 PM
I'm sure if he were here he'd speak up for himself, he isn't so it isn't fair to discuss him in all honesty. What I will say is there have been several demo's from the EDL and the EDL have not started any trouble whatsoever. They have been peaceful.

If I thought for a second that the EDL would start violence I wouldn't go anywhere near. Not a chance.

So far the EDL's demos have been quite peaceful,Birmingham being the exception,but that was down to Salma Yacoub stirring up trouble and a poor policing operation.I hope things remain that way but there is a real risk the authorities won't be able to keep Muslim youths under control much longer and we will end up with race riots.So far they have done a remarkable job in keeping them away from EDL demonstrations.
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #198 - November 13, 2009, 08:21 PM

What people like pdbedl fail to realise (probably because they've never been muslims) is that Muslims suffer from a national and international subjugation complex. They believe their religion is superior and brought about from God, and the only reason it has not spread further is because of the evil of man & the evil of the west (perhaps down to the crusades).

By telling such people that their Holy Prophet & Allahs religion cannot be practised as it was meant to be may not be defying legislative laws, but they are committing treason against the Allahs Divine Laws. Having the heavies surrounding you, is not going to stop them.

Ethnic cleansing might work though?

My Book
My Blog
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #199 - November 13, 2009, 09:01 PM

Now who is doing the demonising?

Only a very few muslims would take that stance (from what I have been told), or are you saying all muslims should me my enemy, and the enemy of the United Kingdom?

Why are you being this way? Do you want conflict? What is your agenda?

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #200 - November 13, 2009, 09:21 PM

Yes, the way you are going about it, I would be surprised to see if most muslims do not see you as the enemy. In fact is there much difference - one fringe group wants Islamic supremacy vs. another group that wants English supremacy.

After you both cancel each other out, fortunately we have liberals on both camps who will sort your bloody mess out.

btw a lot of questions there for somebody who is not prepared to answer my questions?

My Book
My Blog
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #201 - November 13, 2009, 09:28 PM

I've been answering your questions as I see you as a bit of an enigma, I really don't understand why you are so hostile.

btw I don't want English 'supremacy' at all. I want an England that is free for all to do as they so wish without interference from others. In other words an England (UK) of 'live and let live'.

Been reading your reasons for leaving Islam and looking at your YouTube page and checking out your facebook page. You're clearly a very intelligent guy with a good heart.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #202 - November 13, 2009, 09:37 PM

Thank-you - so are you, if a little misguided I particularly like the enigma comment - i'll have to tell my friends about that one

Remember most of us here were muslims at one time too - and some of us at one time or other may have rubber-stamped the Shariah too - a movement like yours may have even pushed us closer to Islam, as most closed & threatened groups invariably do and you might not have been speaking to us today..

My Book
My Blog
- Tony
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #203 - November 13, 2009, 09:40 PM

Quote
btw I don't want English 'supremacy' at all. I want an England that is free for all to do as they so wish without interference from others. In other words an England (UK) of 'live and let live'

In that case you will have no objection to Muslims setting up Sharai courts?
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #204 - November 13, 2009, 09:55 PM

ah Tony, therin lies the rub does it not? A very insightful question.

This relates to my (much) earlier question on the complexities of the whole thing, it is no easy matter.

However, if by allowing a system that 'oppresses' others, then the live and let live becomes null. So, curbs have to be placed upon the system that is doing the oppression. In this example, Sharia law.

Can I just go back to an earlier point about perhaps the EDL being 'hostile'. It is born from fear, make no mistake. Ordinary people are bloody terrified, they see the awful things that go on in muslim states under the name of 'sharia' and see sharia law in the UK as a first step on that path. This fear is what has got ordinary people on the streets of this nation.

Me personally, I've never done anything this political in my life apart from being on a few spats of industrial action with the union. I'd rather have a nice easy life in all honesty. I have small children, I'd rather be reading them a bedtime story than posting on internet forums.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #205 - November 13, 2009, 10:02 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 13, 2009, 09:55 PM
Me personally, I've never done anything this political in my life apart from being on a few spats of industrial action with the union. I'd rather have a nice easy life in all honesty. I have small children, I'd rather be reading them a bedtime story than posting on internet forums.

Thats what you should be doing, instead of inciting hatred amongst two communities with the use of 'Shariah is about to be implemented' soundbites and further highlighting the "them & us" philisophy.

Racial tension is nothing new - history proves it. I like to think most reasonable human beings have learned from it, rather than repeating the same old mistakes.

We are all descendents from the same African woman after all.

My Book
My Blog
- Jack Torrance
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #206 - November 13, 2009, 10:03 PM

"Ordinary people are bloody terrified, they see the awful things that go on in muslim states under the name of 'sharia' and see sharia law in the UK as a first step on that path. ."

I think the EDL are bloody terrified, don't know about terrified 'ordinary' people.

Ha Ha.
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #207 - November 13, 2009, 10:03 PM

Islam isn't a race.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #208 - November 13, 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 13, 2009, 10:03 PM
I think the EDL are bloody terrified, don't know about terrified 'ordinary' people.

You keep bringing up this pissing contest, a sure sign of insecurity.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #209 - November 13, 2009, 10:07 PM

I know - that doesnt change my point though as its part of the same psychological group context.

Now go and read you kids that story - far more productive I think

My Book
My Blog
Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »