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 Topic: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad

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  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #480 - November 23, 2009, 04:31 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on November 23, 2009, 04:30 AM
    I can fuck around with the minds of theists. Cheesy


    aaah.... don't fuck my mind!! LOL  Cheesy
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #481 - November 23, 2009, 04:32 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on November 23, 2009, 04:21 AM
    No, I don't.  I just lack belief in a deity, that's why its called a-theist.  I don't have a belief, I just lack one.  

    Calling atheism a belief is silly, its like saying not playing chess is a hobby.   Roll Eyes

    Not that I disagree with you Cheetah, just that I Never liked that chess analogy. if you do not want to be called a chess player then stop playing chess. Go knit.

    But for real, is theism considered a belief? Does theism have a dogma associated with it? Do all theists think the same? of course not, only on the matter of a god existing. Which is not enough to even lump theists together.

    Do all atheist think the same? Of course not. They do not even have the same dogma other then the One common lack of belief in a god. So why lump them together?

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #482 - November 23, 2009, 04:33 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on November 23, 2009, 04:27 AM
    You can see it any way you like, you are still ignoring the first hand testimony of an atheist.  I don't "believe" that there is not a God, I just lack belief in a deity.  Can you not discern the difference?  Even after the analogies I have given you to help?


    I don't see how you can "lack" any kind of belief at all, even in science or what have you.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #483 - November 23, 2009, 04:35 AM
    Quote from: trumora on November 23, 2009, 04:31 AM
    not really. As some said before, there are atheist who behave as it is a belief, but, in reality, Atheism is a lack of a belief. Being the lack of something means you can be that something. Furthermore, not all atheists behave the same towards this issue so it can be a set of beliefs because it's different for each individual.


    Exactly.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #484 - November 23, 2009, 04:36 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 04:33 AM
    I don't see how you can "lack" any kind of belief at all, even in science or what have you.


    Even if one has to believe in something it does not subtract from the term Atheism its meaning as "lack of God". If one believe in something else is due to individuality, not to the Atheism itself.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #485 - November 23, 2009, 04:41 AM
    Quote from: Baal on November 23, 2009, 04:32 AM

    But for real, is theism considered a belief? Does theism have a dogma associated with it? Do all theists think the same? of course not, only on the matter of a god existing. Which is not enough to even lump theists together.

    Do all atheist think the same? Of course not. They do not even have the same dogma other then the One common lack of belief in a god. So why lump them together?





    that was also my point. agreed.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #486 - November 23, 2009, 04:42 AM
    Quote from: trumora on November 23, 2009, 04:36 AM
    Even if one has to believe in something it does not subtract from the term Atheism its meaning as "lack of God". If one believe in something else is due to individuality, not to the Atheism itself.


    I see..
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #487 - November 23, 2009, 04:44 AM
    Quote from: Baal on November 23, 2009, 04:32 AM
    Heh? if you do not want to be called a chess player then stop playing chess. Go knit.



    Eh?  Are you sore that I'm higher up the chess board than you? 

    Quote from: xoBadr
    I don't see how you can "lack" any kind of belief at all, even in science or what have you.


    That's a failure of imagination on your part.  If you cannot deal with uncertainty, or if you are too egotistical to simply admit "I don't know", that is really your problem.

    Atheists don't generally share that problem.  We are quite happy to lack belief and live our lives in uncertainty,  unless and until evidence is produced.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #488 - November 23, 2009, 04:45 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 04:31 AM
    I did not say it was a religion. I don't think I'm explaining what I mean correctly, sorry.

    Yep, there are atheists out there who still have a religion. So not fair to call atheism a religion.

    Perhaps atheist dogma, or doctrine is more apt to describe what atheists do. It is a matter of time however, before we start detecting patterns and trends between atheists, enough that we can lump them.

    Ultimately, it really irks atheists to be lumped as a doctrine or a religion, because most still prefer to think of themselves as 'free thinkers' and 'unique individuals' and other such wrong and useless notions. Ultimately, they *are* 'free thinker' and 'unique individuals' but only in as much as there is not that many of us (atheists) around yet to make a clear solid distinction among atheists.

    EDIT: Last Line.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #489 - November 23, 2009, 04:48 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on November 23, 2009, 04:44 AM
    Eh?  Are you sore that I'm higher up the chess board than you? 

    That's a failure of imagination on your part.  If you cannot deal with uncertainty, or if you are too egotistical to simply admit "I don't know", that is really your problem.

    Atheists don't generally share that problem.  We are quite happy to lack belief and live our lives in uncertainty,  unless and until evidence is produced.


    I never said I couldn't deal with uncertainty. I accept that there always will be some. Get off your high horse.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #490 - November 23, 2009, 04:54 AM
    Quote
    I never said I couldn't deal with uncertainty. I accept that there always will be some. Get off your high horse.


    I'm not on a high horse, I'm just trying to explain to you the difference between a belief and a lack of one.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #491 - November 23, 2009, 04:59 AM
    Quote from: Baal on November 23, 2009, 04:45 AM
    Yep, there are atheists out there who still have a religion. So not fair to call atheism a religion.

    Perhaps atheist dogma, or doctrine is more apt to describe what atheists do. It is a matter of time however, before we start detecting patterns and trends between atheists, enough that we can lump them.

    Ultimately, it really irks atheists to be lumped as a doctrine or a religion, because most still prefer to think of themselves as 'free thinkers' and 'unique individuals' and other such wrong and useless notions. Ultimately, they *are* 'free thinker' and 'unique individuals' but only in as much as there is not that many of us (atheists) around yet to make a clear solid distinction among atheists.

    EDIT: Last Line.




    So anyone who is religious is not a free thinker?
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #492 - November 23, 2009, 05:03 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on November 23, 2009, 04:24 AM
    Dude (I assume you are a dude but correct me if I'm wrong), methinks you have totally misunderstood what people have been telling you. Allow me to elucidate. Smiley

    1/ There are a range of attitudes that fall under the general umbrella of "atheism".
    2/ Yes, some nutters are totally, religious fundamentalist to the max, "certain" that there is no deity.
    3/ Yes, this can be called a belief. It can even be called a religion of sorts (albeit a rather odd sort).
    4/ This is not a description of all people that regard themselves as atheists.
    5/ The sane ones say that they see no evidence for any deity, and therefore they see no reason why they should believe in any deity.
    6/ This is not the same as 2/. Far from it.
    7/ If you can't see the difference that's your problem, mate.   bunny



    We could actually look at Islam and Christianity and all the other viewpoints in a similar way. That's why I don't think it's such a good idea to be so fierce in our attacks on viewpoints other than our own. When we do this it, always involved generalisations and intolerance.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #493 - November 23, 2009, 05:04 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 04:48 AM
    I never said I couldn't deal with uncertainty. I accept that there always will be some. Get off your high horse.

    Ok, try this one. You obviously don't believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a real omnipotent deity. Neither do I. Neither of us can prove this conclusively.

    Now do you have a firm, certain, solid belief that the FSM does not exist or do you just find that, on the balance of probability, you think it extremely unlikely (and rather bonkers)?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #494 - November 23, 2009, 05:10 AM
    I'd say this spaghetti monster doesn't exist..
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #495 - November 23, 2009, 05:12 AM
    On what basis?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #496 - November 23, 2009, 05:14 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on November 23, 2009, 05:12 AM
    On what basis?


    good point.



    Well, dear tortelinis, I will go to bed now. I know I'll miss a lot just by sleeping LOL but it has to be done. Loved joining the forum. See ya.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #497 - November 23, 2009, 05:15 AM
    On the basis that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster was created to poke fun at organized religion. Listen, I'm not saying "there's a God, and you need to believe in him or you're going to burn in hell". I just simply believe in God, you don't. That's all there is to it. Whether I'm right, or you're right doesn't matter.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #498 - November 23, 2009, 05:27 AM
    Okay I think a distinction needs to be made here.

    xoBadr, I as an Atheist lack belief in theism--thus I refer myself as an Atheist. This lack of belief in theism is not compiled of other beliefs, since I do not proclaim that I know for absolute certainty there is no god. There may be a god, but I find it very improbable. Therefor I stand in the middle.

    I do have other beliefs which have nothing to do with theism. For example, my moral compass is led by beliefs that are constructed from life experiences.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #499 - November 23, 2009, 05:32 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 05:15 AM
    On the basis that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster was created to poke fun at organized religion.

    Irrelevant. That still does not preclude said monster existing. Wink

    ETA: Oh and that was not the only reason the idea of the FSM was invented.

    Quote
    Listen, I'm not saying "there's a God, and you need to believe in him or you're going to burn in hell". I just simply believe in God, you don't. That's all there is to it. Whether I'm right, or you're right doesn't matter.

    Not quite. You were trying to argue that "atheism is a belief", in case you've forgotten. grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #500 - November 23, 2009, 06:31 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 03:25 AM
    I find it a bit hypocritical that some of you are trying to argue with the Muslim posters about Islam and discredit or disprove their beliefs.


    Why? 

    Quote
    As an atheist, I'm sure you're sick of people always trying to do the same by trying to "prove" that God is real.

     

    I'd bet several people here regularly engage in theological debates with invisible friend believers who are trying to convince them otherwise.  I can't figure it  myself, but some people find such conversations fun. 

    Quote
    And as for the Muslims posting about Kim, what does her decision to not be a Muslim anymore have to do with you? I'd think there's much more important things going on in the world right now and in your lives than some girl on the internet who made videos once in a while..


    Oh please. The internet is tailor made for people who want to discuss all manner of things that have nothing to do with them.  But this - this topic of a person who apostatised publicly and the reaction to it - it does relate directly to us in many ways.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #501 - November 23, 2009, 06:32 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 03:57 AM
    If you're an atheist, you're saying that you believe God does not exist, right? That's a truth.


    Most atheists don't say that.  Atheists say that they don't believe that there is sufficient evidence to prove that a god of any sort exists.  There's a difference between those two statements.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #502 - November 23, 2009, 06:36 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on November 23, 2009, 01:50 AM
    Tut has the right idea. I'm surprised you didn't catch onto the porn reference there Manat. *tsk tsk*


    You know... I don't watch as much pr0n as you might think I do.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #503 - November 23, 2009, 10:02 AM
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on November 22, 2009, 09:47 PM
    @ Islame

    According to my understanding, isn't this verse referring to those who turn back to enmity?

    its about disbelievers, people who would not accept the message - hadith also back this up if there is any doubt and you want to cross reference it.  And not just once but here's one example at that Sahih Bukhari 4:260 The Prophet said, " If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him."
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #504 - November 23, 2009, 10:04 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 03:46 AM
    Call it what you want, but it's still a belief or set of beliefs that vary to me.


    Atheism is a lack of belief in other words it is scepticism
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #505 - November 23, 2009, 10:06 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 03:57 AM
    If you're an atheist, you're saying that you believe God does not exist, right? That's a truth.


    No we don't "BELIEVE" anything we say there is a lack of EVIDENCE to believe in a god 
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #506 - November 23, 2009, 10:07 AM
    Quote from: xoBadr on November 23, 2009, 04:03 AM
    But believing in one, even if it turns out there is not one, can't hurt.


    Re: Pascals Wager
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #507 - November 23, 2009, 10:13 AM
    If you are going to go into arguing symantics about what atheism means..... can we have a different name?

    I leave it to you to label me
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #508 - November 23, 2009, 10:17 AM
    Quote from: Manat on November 23, 2009, 06:32 AM
    Most atheists don't say that.  Atheists say that they don't believe that there is sufficient evidence to prove that a god of any sort exists.  There's a difference between those two statements.


    I don't believe in a God.

    There is no evidence for a God.


    They are not the same thing.

    Challenge All Ideologies but don't Hate People.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #509 - November 23, 2009, 10:18 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcIrvS-e8hA
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
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