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 Topic: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad

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  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #660 - November 24, 2009, 11:31 PM
    lol @ Gatty and Jinns. You're adorable Smiley
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #661 - November 24, 2009, 11:31 PM
    Hassan : The tortured Soul of unbelievers, "soul"/"Ghaib" it reminds me of jin, and they could be made of quite the same substance, thats all.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #662 - November 24, 2009, 11:37 PM
    Quote from: gatty on November 24, 2009, 11:31 PM
    Hassan : The tortured Soul of unbelievers, "soul"/"Ghaib" it reminds me of jin, and they could be made of same substance, thats all.


    Sorry, gatty, you've totally lost me - I really don't have a clue what you are talking about or how this is connected to the question I asked.

    However as I have a feeling that pursuing this is not going to help - I think I will just wish you all the best and good luck with all that Jinn stuff.

    Smiley
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #663 - November 24, 2009, 11:43 PM
    Quote from: gatty on November 24, 2009, 11:27 PM
    Hassan : Yes, it's reasonable, the reason is my experience with burning the jin to death (and no experience with burning human soul to death).

    Angel54 : i dont expect people to believe me either.


    Im not talking about whether people believe you or not. It doesnt make a dime`s worth of difference. It`s not the issue. The point is your jinn stuff is  difficult to get. No, obviously no one here has experienced the unseen like you, but that`s why it  means nothing to us. The whole point is jinn have got nothing to do with whether kafirs burn in hell for eternity or not. I dont really care whether or not jinn can burn.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #664 - November 24, 2009, 11:46 PM
    Quote from: gatty on November 24, 2009, 11:27 PM
    Hassan : Yes, it's reasonable, the reason is my experience with burning the jin to death (and no experience with burning human soul to death).

    Angel54 : i dont expect people to believe me either.


    Hassan doesn`t mean reasonable as in is it logically possible. It`s reasonable as in is it ethical to burn people forever for simply not believing, when it hurts no one? You`re twisting his words. We don`t need you to justify why people can be burnt. we`re ssuming God`s all-powerful and can and will do so.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #665 - November 24, 2009, 11:46 PM
    Quote from: TurtleSoup on November 24, 2009, 11:25 AM
    I love deja-vu it's a great feeling.  Afro
    IsLame - Where do you get your information from? I'm really interested in how the brain works

    Cant remember - I heard of it years ago, and its just one of those things that stuck in my head
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #666 - November 24, 2009, 11:54 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on November 24, 2009, 10:29 PM
    Kimdonesia, I can't find your channel.. I see lots of vids of responses to you, but not your channel itself.

    someone else copied the video and put it here, before she deleted it from her channel because of all the negtive comments

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09OofRczUvo
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #667 - November 24, 2009, 11:57 PM
    Quote from: Angel54 on November 24, 2009, 11:46 PM
    Hassan doesn`t mean reasonable as in is it logically possible. It`s reasonable as in is it ethical to burn people forever for simply not believing, when it hurts no one? You`re twisting his words. We don`t need you to justify why people can be burnt. we`re ssuming God`s all-powerful and can and will do so.


    Yes, it does mean "logically possible" and both "ethical", nothing's free in this world and everything has the law or contract. Allah/God/Nature/whatever you wanna call it has made the contract that "every actions will cause reactions / law of karma / cause & result", a soul of disbeliving human and disbelieving jin are logically possible to be burnt is reasonable and ethical to me, why ? It's a part of the system, quite like the same thing as a man go to jail forever because he broke the system.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #668 - November 25, 2009, 12:00 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 24, 2009, 11:57 PM
    It's a part of the system, quite like the same thing as a man go to jail forever because he broke the system.


    Yes it could be compared to a man being jailed for life for stealing some food because he was starving in that respect
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #669 - November 25, 2009, 12:10 AM
    Honestly i dont know how to compare "disbeliever soul" with "stealing some food because he was starving" cos ive never been a disbeliever before (i was a deist) so i cant feel/understand how to become one of them  yes
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #670 - November 25, 2009, 12:13 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 12:10 AM
    Honestly i dont know how to compare "disbeliever soul" with "stealing some food because he was starving" cos ive never been a disbeliever before (i was a deist) so i cant feel/understand how to become one of them  yes


    Because the quran, the hadiths and many Muslim authorities clearly state their views on apostates and how they should be dealt with.. 

    Now anyone who truly believes in humanistic concepts such as equality and tolerance cannot help reject many principles of the quran and many actions of the god of Islam as well.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #671 - November 25, 2009, 12:18 AM
    yeah, it could be unfair , unjust, or intolerance, like a man who get lung cancer while he's a passive smoker, or a disbelieving jin can be burnt to death (while believing jin cant) to me its just a system. Death, disease, happiness, bad people, good people are also just system and facts that cant be changed. Its just life  thnkyu
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #672 - November 25, 2009, 12:22 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 12:18 AM
    yeah, it could be unfair , unjust, or intolerance, like a man who get lung cancer while he's a passive smoker, or a disbelieving jin can be burnt to death (while believing jin cant) to me its just a system. Death, disease, happiness, bad people, good people are also just system.


    Which would mean that Allah is not a merciful god...

    By the way, how can a being that is supposed to be made of fire, burn to death?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #673 - November 25, 2009, 12:28 AM
     مِن مَّارِجٍ مِّن نَّارٍ in human's closest translation at that time as "Smokeless fire" or , this could mean oxygen, fire, or other thing. Jin can feels cold/hot depends on what kind of jin it is.. a bad/negative jin feels cold, and a good jin feels warm/hot. What can be burnt is only the jin that's cold. Why ? I dont know, that just what happened.

    Yup, he's merciful but at the same time he conform with the system. You can be non disbeliever and becoming deist if you want to anytime you want (or open your mind with the "ghaib" like jin, karma, etc).
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #674 - November 25, 2009, 12:30 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 24, 2009, 11:57 PM
    Yes, it does mean "logically possible" and both "ethical", nothing's free in this world and everything has the law or contract. Allah/God/Nature/whatever you wanna call it has made the contract that "every actions will cause reactions / law of karma / cause & result", a soul of disbeliving human and disbelieving jin are logically possible to be burnt is reasonable and ethical to me, why ? It's a part of the system, quite like the same thing as a man go to jail forever because he broke the system.


    Again, didn`t mean Logical, but whatever. If were goin that route, then, justice and punishment make more sense on earth. for most things finite crime=finite time. You wouldnt get sentenced to life for all crimes. Only a select few. Disbelieving in the quran, despite its oppression, misogyny, and factual mistakes, gets you eternity and more pain than you could ever imagine. Definitely merciful, just, and compassionate Afro. BTW do you believe idribuhunna means beat them?
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #675 - November 25, 2009, 12:34 AM
    Angel : well if you have the prejudice then its up to you  whistling2  And in my dictionary it doesnt mean "beat", but in google it means "beat them", in Quran it also doesnt mean "beat". So, it may has different meaning.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #676 - November 25, 2009, 12:45 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 12:34 AM
    Angel : well if you have the prejudice then its up to you  whistling2  And in my dictionary it doesnt mean "beat", but in google it means "beat them", in Quran it also doesnt mean "beat". So, it may has different meaning.


    gatty what does that word in Quran's verse mean you think if not beat them? Hit them? Strike them? Let us know which works for you.

    BTW, there have been many discussions about that verse on this forum in the past. Some are here:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4830.0
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4675.0
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #677 - November 25, 2009, 12:49 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 12:34 AM
    Angel : well if you have the prejudice then its up to you  whistling2  And in my dictionary it doesnt mean "beat", but in google it means "beat them", in Quran it also doesnt mean "beat". So, it may has different meaning.


    Oh ouch, Im prejudiced now? The word means what it means regardless of whether or not you like it. But Im simply asking you what you think it means. Idrib doesnt meant separate just because it makes the verse all pretty and egalitarian.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #678 - November 25, 2009, 12:55 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 12:28 AM


    Yup, he's merciful but at the same time he conform with the system. You can be non disbeliever and becoming deist if you want to anytime you want (or open your mind with the "ghaib" like jin, karma, etc).


    If he conforms to the system he is not all powerful.  Allah does not need to conform, Allah created the system and does what he wants right?   
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #679 - November 25, 2009, 02:13 AM
    Allat : ow yeah i see, i thought she was talking about 24:31 (sorry for my mistake), "beat (lightly)" really is allowed. If i were a guy and my wife's proven cheat on me, yeah i would slap her (not by beating the crap out of her) , and if my husband cheat on me i have right to threat him with divorce (while he must still support my life until i get a new lover :p).

    Ras111 : powerful, doesnt mean willing to break the promise that has already become the system. Yeah i guess it (god) can make a new law/system once after "our era" is over he could make a new world.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #680 - November 25, 2009, 02:16 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:13 AM
    Allat : ow yeah i see, i thought she was talking about 24:31 (sorry for my mistake), "beat (lightly)" really is allowed. If i were a guy and my wife's proven cheat on me, yeah i would slap her (not by beating the crap out of her) , and if my husband cheat on me i have right to threat him with divorce (while he must still support my life until i get a new lover :p).


    No, I was talking about verse 4:34.

    So you are okay with domestic violence, then? A man beating a woman, for any reason, is okay by you. A woman can't beat a man, though right? She has to find a way to get herself through a lengthy divorce process. Yup, that's Islam. It does say, men are a degree above women and I suppose you have internalized that.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #681 - November 25, 2009, 02:16 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:13 AM
    Allat : ow yeah i see, i thought she was talking about 24:31 (sorry for my mistake), "beat (lightly)" really is allowed. If i were a guy and my wife's proven cheat on me, yeah i would slap her (not by beating the crap out of her) , and if my husband cheat on me i have right to threat him with divorce (while he must still support my life until i get a new lover :p).

    Ras111 : powerful, doesnt mean willing to break the promise that has already become the system. Yeah i guess it (god) can make a new law/system once after "our era" is over he could make a new world.


    If my man cheated me I would WANT to beat the crap out of him. But I WOULDN'T do it, because that's not the way to deal with the situation.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #682 - November 25, 2009, 02:22 AM
    Quote from: allat on November 25, 2009, 02:16 AM
    No, I was talking about verse 4:34.

    So you are okay with domestic violence, then? A man beating a woman, for any reason, is okay by you. A woman can't beat a man, though right? She has to find a way to get herself through a lengthy divorce process. Yup, that's Islam. It does say, men are a degree above women and I suppose you have internalized that.


    There's no prohibition said in Quran that women cant slap a cheating husband (there's only right for us to ask him divorce while he must still support our living) , so you want to slap your man cos he's cheating on you, why not ? You can even ask him a divorce at once and still get money from him. 4:34 is only restriction for man, that he (husband) can slap us lightly only as last resort if we've gone too far.

    Trumore : me neither, but i guess i would probably slap my husband and maybe ask him a divorce if he's getting out of the line...
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #683 - November 25, 2009, 02:25 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:22 AM
    , so you want to slap your man cos he's cheating on you, why not ? 


    are you serious?


    btw, 4:34 is the part of the Qu'ran that most likely drew me away from Islam. Including the concept of Heaven and Hell.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #684 - November 25, 2009, 02:52 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:22 AM
    There's no prohibition said in Quran that women cant slap a cheating husband (there's only right for us to ask him divorce while he must still support our living) , so you want to slap your man cos he's cheating on you, why not ? You can even ask him a divorce at once and still get money from him. 4:34 is only restriction for man, that he (husband) can slap us lightly only as last resort if we've gone too far.

    Trumore : me neither, but i guess i would probably slap my husband and maybe ask him a divorce if he's getting out of the line...


    Oh ok. So you support domestic violence. Well you are following Islam for sure. It says you are lower in the scheme of things than a man, it explicitly allows your husband to beat you, it says that in heaven you will have only your husband but he will have whoever he wishes to have. Basically you are a second class citizen and you are in full support of your own oppression. Classic Islam.

    No wonder Islam is making such leaps and bounds into modernity.  Afro
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #685 - November 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
    well.. in the family, man must be "the boss" so he must support the family, but outside family they dont have to. Meaning i can still be the boss above all the men at the office, but i still must respect my husband as the man of the house. And if he's really gone too far i could just slap him (but id think twice cos he's allowed to slap me back..) or i could just divorce him by still receiving support. It's not like when there's a problem husband/wife are slapping each other, when there's a problem the first thing must be done is by talking about it first. It sounds make sense for me on how things should work, so i have no problem with it.

    Trumora : there's no prohibition that we cant slap a cheating husband is it ?
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #686 - November 25, 2009, 03:02 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
    well.. in the family, man must be "the boss" so he must support the family, but
    outside family they dont have to. Meaning i can still be the boss above all the men at the office, but i still must respect my husband as the man of the house. And if he's really gone too far i could just slap him (but id think twice cos he's allowed to slap me back..) or i could just divorce him by still receiving support. It sounds make sense for me on hor things should work, so i have no problem with it.


    that's very patriarchal to my taste. But again, all of the three Abrahamic religions are man centred and women are second class. They are all patriarchal. But Islam is a little more literal so... easier to point at and harder to get away.

    Quote
    Trumora : there's no prohibition that we cant slap a cheating husband isnt it ?


    It's uncivilized. One should not resort to violence unless it's really self-defense.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #687 - November 25, 2009, 03:07 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
    well.. in the family, man must be "the boss"


    Why?

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
    so he must support the family,


    So in families where the woman makes more money or the same amount as her husband, the same rules apply to both then? She can have 4 husbands? She can take male slaves like he's allowed to take female slaves?

    If so, prove where Islam says that.

    If not, prove how that is not a sexist double standard.

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
    but outside family they dont have to. Meaning i can still be the boss above all the men at the office, but i still must respect my husband as the man of the house. And if he's really gone too far i could just slap him (but id think twice cos he's allowed to slap me back..) or i could just divorce him by still receiving support. It sounds make sense for me on how things should work, so i have no problem with it.


    That's nice to know that you don't have a problem with your daughter (if/when you have one) being beneath a man. Being less worthy than a man in every way.

    Also, you support domestic violence like it's some small thing. Just shows your ignorance. It's a big problem and Islam allows it. Women like you support it. That's why the state of widespread domestic violence and "honour" killings among Muslims. Some other cultures have those too, but nowhere near the extent as in Islam.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #688 - November 25, 2009, 03:14 AM
    Trumora : For me, each opinion's subjective, ive been raised in patriarchal environment too so maybe thats why i feel normal with the system. I think religion & spirituality are subjective matters depending on each custom.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #689 - November 25, 2009, 03:20 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:14 AM
    Trumora : For me, each opinion's subjective, ive been raised in patriarchal environment too so maybe thats why i feel normal with the system. I think religion & spirituality are subjective matters depending on each custom.


    I theoretically did also. And I don't like and don't think it's right. I also think we should discuss and critically look at our own socities.

    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
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