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Theme Changer

 Topic: Refute this video

 (Read 5898 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Refute this video
     OP - January 07, 2010, 08:22 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0donCN_IUhI
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #1 - January 07, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Done.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #2 - January 07, 2010, 08:38 PM
    The big bang didn't happen due to an explosion of matter and energy, there was no matter or energy before the big bang neither did the the big bang consist of an explosion. That is such a ridiculous statement there's no point in even watching the rest of the video as the author clearly has NO understanding of physics or the big bang.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #3 - January 07, 2010, 09:03 PM
    Quote from: liberated on January 07, 2010, 08:22 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0donCN_IUhI

    the best argued theist video ... EVER!

    I salute whoever wrote that.. in fact they have pointed out one of the reasons I choose to remain agnostic.

    Until we know, I accept we dont know.
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #4 - January 07, 2010, 09:04 PM
    http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#BBB

    This is nothing more than the usual god of the gaps argument, ridiculous really.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #5 - January 07, 2010, 09:07 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on January 07, 2010, 08:38 PM
    The big bang didn't happen due to an explosion of matter and energy, there was no matter or energy before the big bang neither did the the big bang consist of an explosion. That is such a ridiculous statement there's no point in even watching the rest of the video as the author clearly has NO understanding of physics or the big bang.


    How did it happen?
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #6 - January 07, 2010, 09:12 PM
    we dont know what triggered it - we're talking about a millisecond,13.2 billion years ago. Could have been the compression of another universe, infinitely existing energy etc.
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #7 - January 07, 2010, 09:22 PM
    Well whatever the video argues, it could argue the existence of a god or a first cause, not God. Perhaps a god who ceased to exist, or one that is trapped somewhere or or or....... I mean the possibilities are endless, and considering the fact the universe seem to be running on its own, the least that could be said would be that god doesn't fucking care about the universe or his fellow human creations, or maybe just can't do anything about it. Then why should WE care.

    Also I have yet to meet an Atheist who claims to know everything about the beginning of the existence of the universe. They just don't put God in the gaps of their knowledge and prefer to wait for it to be filled with coherent observations and theories, if they ever came about in their lifetime.
    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #8 - January 07, 2010, 09:27 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on January 07, 2010, 09:04 PM
    http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#BBB

    This is nothing more than the usual god of the gaps argument, ridiculous really.

     Afro
    I like this one "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
    Theists say, "You don't know therefore it is God". Whereas, they don't know either, they just believe. Huge difference really.
    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #9 - January 07, 2010, 11:14 PM
    The obvious flaw in this video is that he puts the cause & effect question to the athiest first.  if you put that question to a theist, they would also end up stumped.

    the way to avoid being 'trapped' is by not accepting 'cause & effect'.  It applies in our day to day life, but not necessarily to the 'spark' in the primordial soup.  And in answer to his last part "dont ask the first cause question then", its not usually a question an atheist brings up - its a question that theists always bring up, usually as there one & only challenge!
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #10 - January 07, 2010, 11:20 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on January 07, 2010, 09:07 PM
    How did it happen?

    It's a very complicated subject, much more complicated the theists like the author of that vid like to think. We don't know what happened but something caused an infinitely dense singularity to expand (not explode). The Big Bang itself is a misleading name, nothing went bang. There was simply an expansion.

    To say matter and energy exploded is ridiculous, the big bang created matter, it didn't exist before it. The laws of physics came into existence during the first few milliseconds of the big bang.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #11 - January 07, 2010, 11:35 PM
    Just watched the rest of the video out of curiosity, it's atrocious. Talk about putting words in someone's mouth.

    1: An eternal universe does not make it supernatural wacko It's called Loop Quantum Cosmology (or Big Bounce).

    2: This area is still being researched. Just we cannot explain it yet does not mean 'god did it'

    3: We have evidence of virtual particles, where's your evidence of god?

    4: These theories are still being tested and can be discarded if they prove wrong.
    ~My story~
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #12 - January 08, 2010, 12:00 AM
    It came from a Quantum Fluctuation. The total energy of the universe is zero.

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #13 - January 08, 2010, 12:06 AM
    In any-case the M theory may prove the big-bang theory to be flawed. M-theory suggests there are more dimensions to the universe, and there also maybe bubble universes, and parallel universes, we could be inside a membranes.


    : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE7xRgfPjAI
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #14 - January 08, 2010, 12:09 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAhCUtkFA2A
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #15 - January 08, 2010, 12:11 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on January 08, 2010, 12:00 AM
    It came from a Quantum Fluctuation. The total energy of the universe is zero.

    eh? how does this explain the first cause?
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #16 - January 08, 2010, 12:21 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on January 08, 2010, 12:06 AM
    In any-case the M theory may prove the big-bang theory to be flawed. M-theory suggests there are more dimensions to the universe, and there also maybe bubble universes, and parallel universes, we could be inside a membranes.


    : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE7xRgfPjAI

    for those who want to understand m-dimenisonal theory, the concept of 9, 10 etc dimensions or how you can get more than 3 dimensions, these are good starter videos explaining it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySBaYMESb8o
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #17 - January 08, 2010, 12:33 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 08, 2010, 12:11 AM
    eh? how does this explain the first cause.

    Doesn't make sense to talk of a first cause when time doesn't exist.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #18 - January 08, 2010, 12:43 AM
    Why?  At t=0, total energy would have had a figure otherwise where did the energy come from for the Big Bang
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #19 - January 08, 2010, 12:56 AM
    I thought at t=0 energy was still infinite within the singularity? You know what, I'm gunna stop talking about things I don' know about Tongue
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #20 - January 08, 2010, 01:13 AM
    you're prob right, i just want to understand at least one sensible theory - when I do, and it makes sense to me, at that point I will feel embracing celebrating atheism  Afro
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #21 - January 08, 2010, 01:36 AM
    Not in your life time Tongue Nothing makes sense right now grin12 Just follow the LHC I guess, and curse NewScientist for forcing us to pay to view any of their articles. Knowledge should be free :(
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #22 - January 08, 2010, 10:40 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 08, 2010, 12:11 AM
    eh? how does this explain the first cause?


    A cause is not required as matter did not exist! You need to understand quantum mechanics Quantum-mechanics works with events in nature that are, or at least seem to be, completely random. Particle and anti-particle pairs can come into existence and annihilate again without any apparent cause. Many quantum-processes seem to happen without cause. Saying that everything must have a cause is false, as quantum mechanics falsifies it.

    In any case Hume showed that humans cannot perceive 'cause' and 'effect', but construct these notions from past experiences.

    Suppose, that everything does have a cause. Then, we have to say that God had a cause too, and that that cause had a cause too, infinite-regression. The first cause argument does not explain anything. It's pretty shocking that I have to explain this shit on an ex-Muslim forum.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #23 - January 08, 2010, 10:56 AM
    Just to expound on that I said. The first cause argument comes from Islamic logic and Muslim philosophy it based on the Kalam principles of dialectics. However, Kant showed that it is not necessary that every event has a cause. This belief is merely based on habit not on reason the universe does not need a cause.

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #24 - January 08, 2010, 03:51 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on January 08, 2010, 10:40 AM
    Suppose, that everything does have a cause. Then, we have to say that God had a cause too, and that that cause had a cause too, infinite-regression. The first cause argument does not explain anything. It's pretty shocking that I have to explain this shit on an ex-Muslim forum.

    I find it even more shocking you think you actually explained something new here
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  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #25 - January 08, 2010, 03:56 PM
    Islame I kind of realized your judgement was flawed when Liberated said you invited him here. Then I realized how "lofty" your intellect was really.

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #26 - January 08, 2010, 05:05 PM
    I love when people don't understand the principle of physical cause and effect.

    It doesn't state that EVERYTHING needs a cause.
    Said like that, it would be pretty dumb:
    1) time, being "something", would need a cause... a cause that doesn't "happen" in any "moment" since "moments" imply time... wtf?
    2) space, being "something", would need a cause... one that doesn't "happen" in any place, since "places" imply space... wtf?
    3) even the principle of cause-effect itself would be a "something" that requires a cause... so more wtf?!

    You better formulate it in a way that makes sense like:
    "Every event has a causal event"

    1) time is not an event. check!
    2) space is not an event. check!
    3) causality itself is not an event either. check!

    oh but...

    4) the universe is not an event! sorry Grin

    There are other ways to formulate causality, just... pick one that is not so fallacious to begin with :S
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #27 - January 08, 2010, 08:37 PM
    But events created the universe Tongue
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #28 - January 10, 2010, 01:19 AM
    That vid isn't bad as an example of some of the dumber atheist arguments, but it's also rather shallow and inaccurate in some ways.

    Primarily it's all about first cause. It's trying to imply that since any theory of the origin of the universe is going to contradict the "law" of cause and effect then theistic arguments are just as plausible as atheistic arguments.

    First point is that a "creator" is an unnecessary addition to any theory of origin. If you say "the universe just happened" this is no different in practice to saying "God just happened and then he made the universe happen". If you say "God has always existed and he made the universe" then this is really no different, in terms of plausibility, to saying "the universe has always existed".

    The usual principle when formulating explanations is Occam's Razor: do not postulate unnecessary entities. In other words, the explanation with the least number of steps is probably the best. A deity is an unnecessary entity. You might as well say that "God has always existed and then he made the proto-universal trans-dimensional undefined thingwhat and that lead to the six dimensional elephants that oscillated mysteriously in the higher realms and they fucked donkeys which exploded orgasmically and that made our universe". I mean you can't disprove any of that shit but it does not add anything useful to an explanation and there is no evidence for it at all.

    The line about "if you can't believe in something that violates cause and effect then you can't believe in our universe" is just plain stupidity. The difference between believing in the existence of our universe and believing in a "creator" is that there is direct evidence for the existence of our universe and there is no real evidence for the existence of a creator. Anything that can be explained by including a creator can be explained just as well or better by not including one.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Refute this video
     Reply #29 - January 11, 2010, 10:43 PM
    Well, first the video is very suggestive - showing the "nice theist" and the "bad, insulting atheist". Not really a fair presentation.

    And then, atheism is just not believing in god. The video shows it, as if somebody doesn`t have an explanation for something, this implies that he has to believe in a certain god.

    UG
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