FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]

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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #150 - February 18, 2010, 07:01 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 06:57 PM
Say what you want about the coherence of Jewish or Christian theology.. but Jesus was, for his time, a very good ethical teacher. He taught and said some profound things.

I might find Christiniaty to be rather bizarre, but as an individual Jesus was a pretty cool guy. Well definitely compared to Muhammad.

So what? The Biblical Jesus is very similar to Buhdda... I doubt he had anything to do with the real Jesus... I mean Buhdda and Yahweh don't come togeather.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #151 - February 18, 2010, 07:03 PM

Quote from: Kenan on February 18, 2010, 07:01 PM
@ debunker

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXF-rJAOHGQ

I've seen this before, but I highly doubt the number... 3000 *UK* ex-Muslim Christians!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #152 - February 18, 2010, 07:05 PM

Quote from: Kenan on February 18, 2010, 06:56 PM
C’mon Rasha, don't be a drama queen! Iblis was only joking.
Besides he was sexually assaulted in prison and such things tend to change people.

Gee sorry, I ought to make allowances for him then.

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 06:57 PM
Say what you want about the coherence of Jewish or Christian theology.. but Jesus was, for his time, a very good ethical teacher. He taught and said some profound things.

I might find Christiniaty to be rather bizarre, but as an individual Jesus was a pretty cool guy. Well definitely compared to Muhammad.

Wow, I find myself in rare agreement with you. Even Christians who leave the faith tend to have some respect for Jesus left, while Muhammad & trying to defend\negate\ignore all his unpleasant acts are often the starting point for Muslims to quit Islam. Forget hadiths, even the Quran shows him marrying his former daughter in law & inventing an absurd excuse, Allah telling his wives to be obedient or threatening them with worse punishments etc.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #153 - February 18, 2010, 07:05 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 06:58 PM
yeah, like the underground church in Mecca... that's Christian propagans crap.. again, the percentage of of ex-Muslims who become Christians is extremely low.. Of course, impoverished Muslims converting to Christianity doesn't count.. If I'm starving and you give me a piece of bread, I will call you god, billy!

debunker, Kenan has furnished you with the links above, its all true mate.

I don't know the percentage of Muslims who convert to Christianity, but I do know it happens a fair amount. One of the interesting points in that documentary was that a large number of the Muslims who convert are refugees, immigrants and those granted asylum from Muslim lands. Which makes some sense. But I sense there are many amongst British Muslims who convert too. The sad part is that guy who converted in Bradford get harassed everyday on the streets of Britain simply for exercising his right to freedom of worship. I guess this is indicative of the social pressures in Muslim neighbourhoods against Islamic dissenters.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #154 - February 18, 2010, 07:07 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:03 PM
I highly doubt the number... 3000 *UK* ex-Muslim Christians!

Me too!

I would like to see the source of this figure.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #155 - February 18, 2010, 07:08 PM

Personally I think that whole Muslim to Christ stuff is BS. But thats just me

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #156 - February 18, 2010, 07:09 PM

@ billy

I don't deny that Muslims are pigs towards openly ex-Muslims, but I will alwas be skeptical of motives of those ex-Muslims who become believers in the HOLY Bible.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #157 - February 18, 2010, 07:09 PM

I'd probably be a Unitarian Christian if I ever did convert Christianity.

   * the belief in One God and the oneness or unity of God.
   * that the life and teachings of Jesus Christ constitute the exemplar model for living one's own life.
   * that reason, rational thought, science, and philosophy coexist with faith in God.
   * that humans have the ability to exercise free will in a responsible, constructive and ethical manner with the assistance of religion.
   * the belief that human nature in its present condition is neither inherently corrupt nor depraved (see Original Sin), but capable of both good and evil, as God intended.
   * the conviction that no religion can claim an absolute monopoly on the Holy Spirit or theological truth.
   * the belief that, though the authors of the Bible were inspired by God, they were humans and therefore subject to human error.
   * the rejection of traditional doctrines that they believe malign God's character or veil the true nature and mission of Jesus Christ, such as the doctrines of predestination, eternal damnation, and the vicarious sacrifice or satisfaction theory of the Atonement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #158 - February 18, 2010, 07:10 PM

Whatever the truth is, the extraordinary social pressures imposed on Muslim dissenters present barriers to rejection that are coercive and sinister - and probably they act as inhibitors to gaining an accurate picture of the extent of apostacy and conversion itself.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #159 - February 18, 2010, 07:11 PM

@ Hassan & Canadian

Like I said, it also has to do with motives... I suspect $$$ (or bread in case of starving Muslims) does play a huge role...

So far I seen ONLY one case of conversion to Christianity that seemed 100% genuine.. .it's the Hamas kid conversion story, have heard of it? I'll dig up the video.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #160 - February 18, 2010, 07:12 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:09 PM
@ billy

I don't deny that Muslims are pigs towards openly ex-Muslims, but I will alwas be skeptical of motives of those ex-Muslims who become believers in the HOLY Bible.

I'm personally sceptical towards evangelists of any religion.However, I am especially interested in the stories of exMuslims, especially those that convert to another faith. No matter how annoying they may be with their new found religion, as an individual, there is something amazingly brave about what they did, much braver than an adherent of any other faith abandoning their creed for another.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #161 - February 18, 2010, 07:13 PM

Fact Muslims can not be friends with Christians that believe in the faith of Christ. Which is the large majority of Christians.

So saying that muslims will not take kindly to Muslims converting to Islam is an understatement.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #162 - February 18, 2010, 07:13 PM

Quote from: billy on February 18, 2010, 07:10 PM
Whatever the truth is, the extraordinary social pressures imposed on Muslim dissenters present barriers to rejection that are coercive and sinister - and probably they act as inhibitors to gaining an accurate picture of the extent of apostacy and conversion itself.

like I said, Muslims are pigs towards ex-Muslims, but missionaries make it seem like the vast majority of Muslims are closet apostates who dare not reveal their apostasy! A certain missionary pig appeared on Campel Brown's CNN show claiming this bullshit!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #163 - February 18, 2010, 07:14 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:13 PM
like I said, Muslims are pigs towards ex-Muslims, but missionaries make it seem like the vast majority of Muslims are closet apostates who dare not reveal their apostasy! A certain missionary pig appeared on Campel Brown's CNN show claiming this bullshit!

lol well crazies are everywhere.. debunker you seem to know a lot about Christianity, more than the usual muslim. why is that?
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #164 - February 18, 2010, 07:15 PM

What I do hate is the way some Christians hang around ex-Muslims like hyenas hoping to take advantage of their vulnerability.

At the CEMB first anniversary there was a Dutch (I think?) Christian missionary who kept telling us how brave we all were and how wonderful Christ is!!! I kept thinking WTF is he doing here at our Ex-Muslim anniversary?
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #165 - February 18, 2010, 07:17 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:03 PM
I've seen this before, but I highly doubt the number... 3000 *UK* ex-Muslim Christians!

Read this interesting & true story, about a girl whose imam father came after her with an axe because she converted to Christianity.

She says that the emphasis on forgiveness in Christianity v. punishment in Islam is what motivated her.She's met several such girls desirous of converting to Christianity.

Muslim girls in UK often enjoy extremely little freedom compared to their Christian friends, I know girls who weren't allowed to go to even their friends birthday parties, & Peruvian, a UK apostate in her early twenties, wrote about how most of her Muslim friends were married off by their parents right after school. Peru also wrote that she wished she'd been born Christian.

Muslim women often aren't even allowed to visit mosques, while the Church is very usually filled with a woman majority.

Such differences in attitudes wouldn't pass unnoticed by Muslimahs, but fears of extreme, & often fatal reactions from their fathers & brothers would often hold them back. I think such women could well be the Achilles Heel of the Muslim community in the West.There'd certainly be more than 3000 such women.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #166 - February 18, 2010, 07:17 PM

Christians need to study their own history. We are not fools. In fact Islam I think insulated me pretty well against other religions. The only religion I would have a hard time criticizing as a mulims was Judaism. The trinity doctrine falls pretty flat, especially when you study the Christian faith and you notice it's a post-Easter doctrine more or less.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #167 - February 18, 2010, 07:21 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 18, 2010, 07:14 PM
lol well crazies are everywhere.. debunker you seem to know a lot about Christianity, more than the usual muslim. why is that?

I had a JW couple lecturing me on the NT for 6 months (they visited on weekends).. needless to say, I didn't learn about the OT from them .

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #168 - February 18, 2010, 07:24 PM

Quote from: Rashna on February 18, 2010, 07:17 PM
Read this interesting & true story, about a girl whose imam father came after her with an axe because she converted to Christianity.

She says that the emphasis on forgiveness in Christianity v. punishment in Islam is what motivated her.She's met several such girls desirous of converting to Christianity.

Muslim girls in UK often enjoy extremely little freedom compared to their Christian friends, I know girls who weren't allowed to go to even their friends birthday parties, & Peruvian, a UK apostate in her early twenties, wrote about how most of her Muslim friends were married off by their parents right after school. Peru also wrote that she wished she'd been born Christian.

Muslim women often aren't even allowed to visit mosques, while the Church is very usually filled with a woman majority.

Such differences in attitudes wouldn't pass unnoticed by Muslimahs, but fears of extreme, & often fatal reactions from their fathers & brothers would often hold them back. I think such women could well be the Achilles Heel of the Muslim community in the West.There'd certainly be more than 3000 such women.

Hey. Seriously. I like you. In a non creepy way. You're a smart girl. But you are young as well. So stop it with the BS Rashna. You are seriously giving brownie points to Christianity? You're serious? Have you even checked the history? Have you been around fundamentalist Christians?

All religions suck balls.

Some just suck a smaller set of balls.

Religions are sectarian by nature. The enlightenment makes Christianity submit and go wailing back into its corner of shame. That's why its so docile. Look at ex-Christians on youtube and read Christian comments. Not so docile are they? Its the purpose of missionary to invite people kindly into their fold.

Witch hunts
Slavery
The Spanish Inquisitions
Conquistadors
Protestant/Catholic wars
Devil purging
Crusades
Child molesting priests
Nun rape
Church implications with the Nazis
Antisemitism
Creationism
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #169 - February 18, 2010, 07:24 PM

Quote from: Rashna on February 18, 2010, 07:17 PM
Read this interesting & true story, about a girl whose imam father came after her with an axe because she converted to Christianity.

She says that the emphasis on forgiveness in Christianity v. punishment in Islam is what motivated her.She's met several such girls desirous of converting to Christianity.

Muslim girls in UK often enjoy extremely little freedom compared to their Christian friends, I know girls who weren't allowed to go to even their friends birthday parties, & Peruvian, a UK apostate in her early twenties, wrote about how most of her Muslim friends were married off by their parents right after school. Peru also wrote that she wished she'd been born Christian.

Muslim women often aren't even allowed to visit mosques, while the Church is very usually filled with a woman majority.

Such differences in attitudes wouldn't pass unnoticed by Muslimahs, but fears of extreme, & often fatal reactions from their fathers & brothers would often hold them back. I think such women could well be the Achilles Heel of the Muslim community in the West.There'd certainly be more than 3000 such women.

Rashna, you may enjoy some kind of popularity among members here, but frankly, after I read a few of your posts, I decided to put you on my ignore list.

regards.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #170 - February 18, 2010, 07:25 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 07:15 PM
What I do hate is the way some Christians hang around ex-Muslims like hyenas hoping to take advantage of their vulnerability.

At the CEMB first anniversary there was a Dutch (I think?) Christian missionary who kept telling us how brave we all were and how wonderful Christ is!!! I kept thinking WTF is he doing here at our Ex-Muslim anniversary?

well, there's plenty of such hyenas at FFI... their stench makes me wanna vomit!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #171 - February 18, 2010, 07:26 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:13 PM
like I said, Muslims are pigs towards ex-Muslims, but missionaries make it seem like the vast majority of Muslims are closet apostates who dare not reveal their apostasy! A certain missionary pig appeared on Campel Brown's CNN show claiming this bullshit!

debunker, both Christianity and Islam are dawah religions. Islam is a shamelessly evangelical religion. It recoils, however, whenever it is described as such, or criticised and confronted when it presents its dawah to the world. To a degree of hysteria and entitlement to impunity from cross-examination that I don't detect to anywhere like the same extent amongst Christian proletysers, who just get on with it, and don't act as if a solemn protection has been breached. That's just my personal experience and perception.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #172 - February 18, 2010, 07:27 PM

Just thought I'd post this in case anyone hasn't seen it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2T-e-gOVR8
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #173 - February 18, 2010, 07:29 PM

Islam comes packaged with bubble-wrappings and a fragile don't break symbol.

Muslims should not be offended by criticism. Take it like an adult you cry-baby.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #174 - February 18, 2010, 07:29 PM

@ Hassan,

I loved that video . Yeah, I love it when ex-Muslims tell missionaries to back off in a language they understand very well...

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #175 - February 18, 2010, 07:31 PM

Quote from: billy on February 18, 2010, 07:26 PM
debunker, both Christianity and Islam are dawah religions. Islam is a shamelessly evangelical religion. It recoils, however, whenever it is described as such, or criticised and confronted when it presents its dawah to the world. To a degree of hysteria and entitlement to impunity from cross-examination that I don't detect to anywhere like the same extent amongst Christian proletysers, who just get on with it, and don't act as if a solemn protection has been breached. That's just my personal experience and perception.

Christian missionaries have grown thick skins, like rhinos... Muslim missionaries are so full of themselves they can't fathom how can anyone be critical of their blessed Dawah!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #176 - February 18, 2010, 07:32 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:21 PM
I had a JW couple lecturing me on the NT for 6 months (they visited on weekends).. needless to say, I didn't learn about the OT from them .

I love "the yeah but the NT is not like the OT excuse". Then why do you have it? And how offensive to call it the Old Testament. Sign of respect would have been to call it the Jewish Bible or something. The Torah.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #177 - February 18, 2010, 07:35 PM

The Torah is only a part of the OT.

The OT is also known as the Hebrew Bible or the Tanakh.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #178 - February 18, 2010, 07:37 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 18, 2010, 07:29 PM
Islam comes packaged with bubble-wrappings and a fragile don't break symbol.

Muslims should not be offended by criticism. Take it like an adult you cry-baby.

You know, you can have a discussion with a Christian evangelist and its relatively benign. You can take them on, challenge them, they keep coming back at you, but they roll with the punches, and they'll go away wishing you the best. A discussion with a full-on dawah merchant is very bleak, dark and horrifying!

I actually enjoy bantering with the elderly Seventh Day Adventist and Jehovas Witnesses that I've come across - a Tableeghi Jamaati looks like a hypnotised King Cobra with a knife behind his back and a one way ticket to a lunatic asylum!

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #179 - February 18, 2010, 07:38 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 07:35 PM
The Torah is only a part of the OT.

The OT is also known as the Hebrew Bible or the Tanakh.

Ah thanks! Love learning new stuff.

Hey have you read this book?

A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammed - by Ali Dashi

http://ali-dashti-23-years.tripod.com/

It's honestly a good read. Half-way through myself.
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