I cant speak on behalf of everyone, but I'll do so anyway
I think the difference lies in these phrases:
Muslims should be forced to adopt atheism at gunpoint
Muslims are ignorant & chauvenisticI have observed statements like the first 2 going commonly unchallenged at FFI
M must not have seen the first one. This would be advocating violence and this is not allowed at FFI. Breaks rule #1 of the FFI Dao.
But, unlike Allah or YHVH M is not allknowing, and so has to rely on what s/he reads or what is reported.
The second one is true, so why should it be challanged? Fact is, not only most mohammedans, but most theists are ignorant. They do know shit about their own religion.
And mohammedans do have a sense of being superior to kafirs. i.e. western females being seen as whores or non-mohammedans being adressed as kafir in the insulting way and other nice insults. In other words seeing down on non-mohammedans, and that is chauvinism.
My problem with FFI has always been that it attracts some extreme anti-Muslim haters and that this can be linked to Ali's own remarks such as "a good Muslim is not a good human being" - just what some bigots are waiting to hear so they can dehumanize Muslims and justify their hatred and acts of violence against ordinary Muslims - who are of course our families.
Again, that's just the truth. A good mohammedan is someone like Mohammad himself and he certainly wasn't a good human being. The ordinary mohammedan is not a good one, as most are ignorant of their faith, just like i.e. Christians. And just because some morons have IQ's in double digits doesn't mean one should censor himself and not say the truth, just like you shouldn't stop selling knives, because some jerk might use it to injure someone.
FFI has always been quite happy to allow the most disgusting displays of bigotry and extreme statements - in the past I have seen calls for Muslims to be rounded up and placed in 're-education' camps while their Sheikhs and Imams made to "disappear".
Actually such a statement would warrant an immidiate ban. Just ask TT (Taqiyyah Tactician) who has made such comments about theists, you might know him as Methaphysical Naturalist here.
Just now took a quick look at the forum and can still see comments to Muslims like "Are you a raghead or a diaper-head?".
If you see it, just report it to M and it will be dealth with. I think this would count as racist and be removed. However, FFI does allow some degree of insults or rather M doesn't bother with it, as it is mostly mutual, so when it is acted upon there will be mostly a general reminder or a part will be split off and dumped into the bin.
And this is the fundamental difference between FFI and CoEM forums.
FFI's only interest in ex-Muslims is to use them as a blunt instrument to bash Islam with. That is why they attract so many Christian fundamentalists, racists, necons and every other flavour of bigot who hates Muslims and Islam rather than genuine ex-Muslims.
Racists are banned or driven away by members.
FFI has many christian fundies? Nope. Anyway, it would't matter if, because even christian fundies are allowed to have an opinion on Islam.
Neocons? Only few. Fewer than our christian fundies I would say.
(After all what sort of an ex-Muslim wants to be used by bigoted groups to add to the irrational hatred directed towards their own families?)
I.e. BerberElla?
(Who, btw, along with other major players on here was a long time FFI member and when this forum started even promoted it amongst FFI members. Even after the whole UFO affair this was continued. I know that, because I know there were complaint mails sent out of fear this was a scam. So, FFI must have been not that bad.)
And I am sorry, but I have to laugh about the "irrational hatred towards their own families" thing.
We Ex-Christians have absolutely no problem to criticise Christianity viciously (AND the fundies) and most of us have christian families whom we dearly love. I have yet to come across an Ex-C forum where they are as apologetic about Christianity as you are here about Islam. I can understand that someone who is in the deconversion process can tend to go back and forth, but if it has been years after one has left a religion, there is really no excuse for apologetics.
CoEM has more to it than simply airing our criticisms of Islam - it is about trying to offer support, and understanding and a place to just finally meet others who have gone through - or are going through what they are and get some help and advice. That stuff that FFI so arrogantly dismisses as "chit-chat" is a very important part of helping each other overcome the baggage Islam has left us with.
Yeah, some "chit-chat" is understandable, but if a mere leisure forum becomes the most frequented forum, there is something wrong imo.
Take a look at the most frequented forum here:
http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/indexI do not think that the deconversion process is so much different in other faiths than Christianity.
FFI often shows support for Israel
WTF is wrong about supporting Israel?
Should you not support people who are being attacked by groups who want them exterminated?
I am a left-liberal (in case you didn't know yet) and I am (mostly) pro Israel. Also, I see the "Israel is bad"-crowd as a bunch of hypocrites. Because, if they weren't, they would protest i.e. the polish settlements on my native soil Silesia with the same rigor they do with the israeli ones.
Ali Sina's Obama-birther nonsense really makes me suspicious. Why on earth would any genuine ex-muslim who says he's from Iran become so passionat about an issue that is deeply rooted in white american right-wing culture? The whole Obama/Birther thing is so rooted in american racism that it's hard to believe any actual immigrant from the middle east (with a muslim name I presume) would get so involved in such a topic.
I have yet to meet in real life or on-line a single person who takes the Obama-birther stuff seriously who isn't a white Republican Christian.
Actually, the answer is really easy. In Ali's case it's "You can take the muslim out of islam, but not islam out of the muslim." Ali has still/again a lot of views which are identical with those in Islam and the birfer thingy isn't surprising either, mohammedans have a thing for conspiracy crap and Ali has too. Also, there is racism in Islam, blacks are usually seen as inferior. Just ask the black guy who tried to make a docu about his haji, boy, did he experience a surprise there being asked whose slave he was.
FYI, for people who don't know it yet:
Sona2 = King Tut = megatroll
I multi nicked as:
1. Muslim4lyfe.
2. Khalid Shah.
3. Infinite.
4. Rizzwan.
5. Sona.
6. Delphi.
7. rizzy.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57641(Note: the thread linked to is in the member-only forum Talk To The Mods. If you really want to read some nasty stuff, look up the Khalid Shah persona.)
P.S. Cassie has 2 PhD's iirc and is one of our best debators.
FUCK FFI! I speak for myself although many here will have the same sentiments, we do not care about FFI we think it is a shit forum, for bigots and bullies to gather in, using Islam as a pretext to justify the bigotry against Muslims.
Lets not forget, it is the sensitive herbs from FFI who come here and tell us how to behave... So what if we think FFI is shit? WE don't want you guys to come over FFI and spam this forum trying to defend the obscene. Stop whining, and you are welcome here if you want to criticize Islam.
Yeah. Luckily you seem to have overcome your obsession with FFI and have focused on trolling here. Can't say I feel sorry for that.
It shows how FFI is so quick to believe any nonsense so long as it shows Muslims/Islam in a bad light.
Nonsense?
Fact: Islam allows to marry and fuck prepubescent girls.
Fact: There are still adult men marrying prepubescent girls in islamic countries. Just read the news and find the latest 8 year old muslimah wanting a divorce from some old fuck.
So, to believe that is not really
that far fetched. The only reason I found it fishy, was simply because of the amount of men.
Just my 2 cents to this thread.
Topic: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]