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 Topic: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]

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  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #540 - February 25, 2010, 05:52 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 05:25 PM
    You are asking me something which I have no way of knowing. But if you are asking about my opinion, then yes, I do think that most of them felt elated even if they did not make a song and dance about it.

    Any muslims here care to prove him right/wrong?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #541 - February 25, 2010, 05:52 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 25, 2010, 01:41 PM
    The part in bold is objectionable.You have a problem with Ali sina's statement because you think some extremist groups would misuse the statement to justify their hatred against muslims but interestingly you have no problems with muslims following Islam  when extremist groups among muslims might use islam for promoting terrorism .Both the cases are identical but yet you have no problem with muslim following islam but you do have a problem people following Ali Sina's statement. See the hypocrisy?  ACtually people who believe in ALi Sina;s statement are better in position than you.To know how lets  do a parallel comparison .

    1) Ali Sina 's statement doesnt actually call for hate but islam does.

    2) Ali Sina's statement would be misused by extremist groups but extremist groups amongst muslims would actually use islam as it is rather than misusing.

    Would you still not have problems with  muslims following islam?



    LOL... you are kidding me right? You are saying that because I am not out to eradicate Islam I am protecting extremists?

    And because I'm not out to eradicate Islam I am worse than Ali Sina saying "A good Muslim is not a good human being." !!

    No comment! Cheesy


  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #542 - February 25, 2010, 05:56 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 05:49 PM
    Huh?  Are you saying we are good because we used to be muslims?


    I assume he was trying to say that most people here were good folks when they were Muslims too, and that apostating may have freed their minds and changed their opinions on some things, but not changed their fundamental character.

    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 05:52 PM
    Any muslims here care to prove him right/wrong?


    And how exactly would they go about doing that?
    fuck you
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #543 - February 25, 2010, 05:57 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 05:52 PM
    Any muslims here care to prove him right/wrong?


    I was elated. And my friend clapped out loud. We were teenagers and stupid. Quite embarrassed and ashamed a few days after when we both realized that although it could have been seen as if the powers of capitalism and supremacy had fallen, this was only a symbolic idea. What really happened was that over 3000 innocent people died. And some had to leap out of windows to face their death plunging down instead of being incinerated.

    If you believe me telling you this then you should also believe when others say they were not at all happy. They were aghast and cried for the lives lost.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #544 - February 25, 2010, 05:58 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on February 25, 2010, 05:56 PM
    I assume he was trying to say that most people here were good folks when they were Muslims too, and that apostating may have freed their minds and changed their opinions on some things, but not changed their fundamental character.



    Thanks. You have a way with words. I envy you.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #545 - February 25, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 25, 2010, 05:45 PM
    Don't you understand that the vast majority of Muslims see Muhammad through their own rose-coloured spectacles. They have a very selective vision of him and have all sorts of interpretations of what he did and said.


    I do understand the selective vision. What I don't understand is their attempts to justify the horrible deeds. However, I have no means of knowing beforehand what a Muslim do when his spectacles lose the rose tint. I tend to be cautious. See, I understand where you are coming from. But do YOU understand where I am coming from as a non Muslim?

    Quote
    Does it not concern you that you are saying that the vast majority of Muslims are not "good human beings" ?


    If they know what Islam is all about and still think it is from the creator God, no.

    Quote
    Our brothers, sisters, mothers, cousins, nieces, nephews, grandparents - are all not good human beings!

    Do you think I was not a good human being when I was a Muslim, Charles?


    Please!! Don't appeal to emotions now.

    Quote
    I'm not going to go into how wrong that analogy is - but just say I'm not aware of any followers of Hitler who do not hold unacceptable beliefs.

     

    Pick any other man you consider evil.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #546 - February 25, 2010, 06:01 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 25, 2010, 05:52 PM
    LOL... you are kidding me right? You are saying that because I am not out to eradicate Islam I am protecting extremists?

    And because I'm not out to eradicate Islam I am worse than Ali Sina saying "A good Muslim is not a good human being." !!

    No comment! Cheesy





    I am pointing out your hypocrisy. Why do you draw conclusions without using any logic?
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #547 - February 25, 2010, 06:03 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on February 25, 2010, 05:56 PM
    And how exactly would they go about doing that?

    I was hoping that they could tell them about their own & family & friends positions or even have access to a poll.  If there are a few of them, along with our own experiences, SNB might understand that we are not talking about a majority (in which case I would be right alongside SNB in FFI), but a tiny minority.

    Just for the record, the majority of muslims I knew were saddened by the event.  The rest thought its was a conspiracy (I guess most of them were in the same boat otherwise they would have been proudly boasting about it).  There were only 2 people I know who praised Bin Laden (and even they didnt celebrate as SNB claims the majority did)
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  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #548 - February 25, 2010, 06:06 PM
    @Islame

    I never claimed majority celebrated. I only claimed that there is no excuse for what they did.I also claimed that I have never heard non muslims doing a similar thing.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #549 - February 25, 2010, 06:06 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 25, 2010, 05:58 PM
    Thanks. You have a way with words. I envy you.

    Ah, I see - I get it now... and its a fair point
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #550 - February 25, 2010, 06:09 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 25, 2010, 05:46 PM
    Charles you realize most of the people here are ex-muslims. If you find us to be good is it really because we apostatized? That's silly don't you think?


    Yes, BD. I know that most of the members here are ex-Muslims. And yes, that is silly, LOL.

    But please appreciate that I think it was the innate goodness within you which caused you to apostatize. If even at this moment you start praising Muhammad, I will immediate become wary of you, and I will be ready to duck the moment you proclaim AllahuAkbar (thanks to KhaliL). Cheesy

    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #551 - February 25, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 06:06 PM
    Ah, I see - I get it now... and its a fair point


    Of course it was a fair point I'm a fucking jenius.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #552 - February 25, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 25, 2010, 06:06 PM
    @Islame

    I never claimed majority celebrated. I only claimed that there is no excuse for what they did.I also claimed that I have never heard non muslims doing a similar thing.

    Sorry, I meant to say CharlesMartel.  I am glad you dont agree with him on this point.  I think this argument is central to CharlesM's extremist views, so forgive me if I labour it.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #553 - February 25, 2010, 06:12 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 06:09 PM
    Yes, BD. I know that most of the members here are ex-Muslims. And yes, that is silly, LOL.

    But please appreciate that I think it was the innate goodness within you which caused you to apostatize. If even at this moment you start praising Muhammad, I will immediate become wary of you, and I will be ready to duck the moment you proclaim AllahuAkbar (thanks to KhaliL). Cheesy

    Why thanks to Khalil?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #554 - February 25, 2010, 06:15 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 06:03 PM
    I was hoping that they could tell them about their own & family & friends positions


    Anecdotal evidence based on one's own limited experiences would neither prove nor disprove his position. You had one experience of Muslim reactions to 9/11 and Berbs had a totally different one-- proves nothing.

    Quote
    or even have access to a poll.  


    This comes closer to being convincing evidence for purposes of "proof"
    fuck you
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #555 - February 25, 2010, 06:16 PM
    @Islame

    I neither support Charles nor do I oppose him here for this particular view because to be frank I dont know and hence I dont think I am justified to comment. I only know that palestinians celebrated on streets but I  really dont have the clue as to what muslims all across the world thought about this but  I would like to know the truth about this issue and would support it.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #556 - February 25, 2010, 06:17 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 05:48 PM
    Fair enough.  

    In that case I hope you can understand why we are happy to villify Islam, but not the majority of muslims.

    The majority know less about their religion than we do - they tend to only know the good bits that their mum & aunties told them).  

    In general though I think the majority of muslims cant make head nor tail of their religion either, and pay lip service to its commands (thats the bit you see on TV alongside the suicide bombers), but act differently IRL.


    I am wary of stupid people who can be incited by their Mullahs; they do not necessarily be bad, being stupid is enough for them to put some lives to rest.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #557 - February 25, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Pick any other man you consider evil.


    Ali Sina?
    fuck you
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #558 - February 25, 2010, 06:32 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Sorry, I meant to say CharlesMartel.  I am glad you dont agree with him on this point.  I think this argument is central to CharlesM's extremist views, so forgive me if I labour it.


    But I didn't claim that majority of Muslims celebrated 9/11, did I? I only claimed that the visible face of Muslims was celebrating the event, and that I "thought" they felt elated based on the attitudes of Muslims around me towards the west.





    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #559 - February 25, 2010, 06:33 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on February 25, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Ali Sina?


    LOL.

    But yes, why not. If you think he is an evil man, and if I claim that he is my role model, what would you call me?
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #560 - February 25, 2010, 06:35 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 25, 2010, 06:12 PM
    Why thanks to Khalil?


    Because the imagery of ducking under the table whenever he heard someone shouting AllahuAkbar was his creation. Cheesy
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #561 - February 25, 2010, 06:40 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 06:33 PM
    LOL.

    But yes, why not. If you think he is an evil man, and if I claim that he is my role model, what would you call me?


    A toothless child molester from Saugus, Massachusetts.
    fuck you
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #562 - February 25, 2010, 06:43 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on February 25, 2010, 06:40 PM
    A toothless child molester from Saugus, Massachusetts.


     Cheesy
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #563 - February 25, 2010, 06:44 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 05:59 PM
    If they know what Islam is all about and still think it is from the creator God, no.


    Then you are indeed saying that most Muslims are not good human beings.

    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Please!! Don't appeal to emotions now.


    It's not simply an appeal to emotion. I know for a fact that I wasn't a bad human being when I was a Muslim. I know my daughter isn't a bad human being I know that my sister isn't nor my other family members nor my Muslim friends.

    I am just as good a human being (with all my faults) as I was when I was a Muslim.

    I was fortunate enough to be exposed to things that made me reject Islam - but if I hadn't I would still be a Muslim and would still be a good human being.

    Most Muslims are aware of at least some of the nasty things in Qur'an and Hadith, but they will either reject some of those things (i.e. reject certain hadiths) or they will give it a meaning that makes it acceptable to them (i.e. it's metaphoric, confined to it's context, means something else, and so on... ) That's what I did - and it didn't make me a bad human being.

    To say that most Muslims are not good human beings is not just an utterly disgusting belief - it is a dangerous one as it means that one cannot live at peace with a huge slice of humanity and means you will be forever at war with the vast majority of Muslims - on one level or another. (Ironically exactly what Muslim fundamentalists are doing to the non-Muslims.)





  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #564 - February 25, 2010, 06:49 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 25, 2010, 06:01 PM
    I am pointing out your hypocrisy. Why do you draw conclusions without using any logic?


    Excuse me?

    You said that because I am not against Islam as a whole I am protecting extremists!

    And you said that is worse than Ali Sina saying "a Good Muslim is not a Good Human Being"

    Did I miss something?
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #565 - February 25, 2010, 07:00 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 25, 2010, 05:13 PM
    There were non-muslims that celebrated when the towers fell. And there were muslims as well. You know hating America is a global thing.


    A former buddy of mine from childhood was on a peacekeeping mission in Bosnia on 9/11/2001. He said the Bosnian Muslims were devastated and expressed their sympathies to the American soldiers there, while the Serbs were celebrating.
    fuck you
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #566 - February 25, 2010, 07:02 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 25, 2010, 06:44 PM
    Most Muslims are aware of at least some of the nasty things in Qur'an and Hadith, but they will either reject some of those things (i.e. reject certain hadiths) or they will give it a meaning that makes it acceptable to them (it is metaphoric - confined to it's context and so on... ) That's what I did - and it didn't make me a bad human being.


    Tell me what would be my fault if I saw you as a threat when you were a Muslim?

    I could consider you innocent unless proved guilty, but wouldn't that have put me in possible jeopardy? Should the knowledge that most of the snakes are non poisonous make me any less wary of them?

    To be honest, I can go on stating that most of the snakes are non poisonous, but I would still be wary of one when I see it.

    Quote
    To say that most Muslims are not good human beings is not just an utterly disgusting belief - it is a dangerous one as it means that one cannot live at peace with a huge slice of humanity and means you will be forever at war with the vast majority of Muslims - on one level or another. (Ironically exactly what Muslim fundamentalists are doing to the non-Muslims.)


    Actually I think that it is the Islam and the Muslims who have been forever at war with the non Muslim world.

    You differentiate between Islam and the Muslims. But Islam has no legs of its own. It is the Muslims which is the manifestation of Islam. If all the Muslims apostatized, even the billions of copies of Quran could not harm anyone.

    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #567 - February 25, 2010, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 07:02 PM
    Tell me what would be my fault if I saw you as a threat when you were a Muslim?

    I could consider you innocent unless proved guilty, but wouldn't that have put me in possible jeopardy? Should the knowledge that most of the snakes are non poisonous make me any less wary of them?

    To be honest, I can go on stating that most of the snakes are non poisonous, but I would still be wary of one when I see it.


    Muslims are to be compared to snakes now?

    Yes of course you should consider a Muslim innocent unless proven guilty - to do otherwise is paranoia based on the actions of a minority.

    What you are suggesting is that one should consider all Muslims guilty!
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #568 - February 25, 2010, 07:12 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 25, 2010, 07:02 PM
    Tell me what would be my fault if I saw you as a threat when you were a Muslim?

    I could consider you innocent unless proved guilty, but wouldn't that have put me in possible jeopardy? Should the knowledge that most of the snakes are non poisonous make me any less wary of them?

    To be honest, I can go on stating that most of the snakes are non poisonous, but I would still be wary of one when I see it.


    So are you saying that if you encounter an individual Muslim on the streets that you will take more precautions than around a non-Muslim? I don't know how things are where you live, but I'm not aware that Muslims where I live are responsible for more violent crimes than non-Muslims.
    fuck you
  • Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
     Reply #569 - February 25, 2010, 07:14 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 25, 2010, 07:09 PM
    Muslims are to be compared to snakes now?


    I don't think you are so stupid as to seriously make that claim.

    Quote
    Yes of course you should consider a Muslim innocent unless proven guilty - to do otherwise is paranoia based on the actions of a minority.


    I would rather be paranoid; much better than living in a Muslim dominated society.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
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