Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #30 - February 24, 2010, 04:28 PM

Quote from: billy on February 24, 2010, 04:25 PM
Thanks for proving my point

Ok billy, if you say so.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #31 - February 24, 2010, 04:32 PM

debunker - you missed the point entirely.

Here it is:

In the modern era it is. Can you tell me which other religion, either by enunciation or by common practise, deems rejection of it to be worthy of being murdered?

We all know about the shite in the roots of Christianity and Judaism that exists - and to all practical effect, injunctions for stonings, death for apostacy etc have become like rotten gangrenous limbs that have fallen off those religions. Because as fucked up as they may be on any number of issues, Christians and Jews can dissent from and reject and apostasize from those religions without getting death threats and the sanctioning by the mainstream orthodoxy of their murder, just for leaving those religions.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #32 - February 24, 2010, 04:33 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:06 PM
@ billy

You just made a factual error. Islam is NOT the only religion in the world where death was prescribed for apostasy..

in that case which other religions do?
Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:06 PM
Unless by religion, you mean religion as practiced rather than religion as prescribed in holy books...

of course, religion is what is prescribed in the books not what an individual interprets it to be - otherwise there are infinite Islams and it makes you right, Bin Laden right, AbuY right, Tailor right etc
Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:06 PM
Come to think of it... the death for apostasy is not even in Islam's holy book, the Quran.

You may think the Quran is the only book the represents Islam, sadly 99% of muslims would disagree with you. Death for apostacy is contained in the shariah law & hadith.. in fact the only reason its not in the Quran is because apostacy was not an overriding concern for Muhammed as it was a new religion, he was more concerned with converting people by preaching or by force.

Sahih Bukhari 4:260
The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’

Under Shariah Law, apostasy (either advocating the rejection of Islamic belief or announcing it by word or deeds) is not permitted and for a man is punishable by death. The punishment for a woman is more lenient - she must stay in prison until she reverts, however long it takes.

So women stop complaining about Islam - you can see some compassion in these words. At least you dont get killed automatically for not believing in Islam and instead get put in jail Guantanamo Bay style

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #33 - February 24, 2010, 04:33 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:28 PM
Ok billy, if you say so.

Its the only thing that could be said my friend.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #34 - February 24, 2010, 04:34 PM

well, I trasnalted *enunciation* and I still wasn't sure what it meant... it's your fault billy! Use easier words with me, please!

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #35 - February 24, 2010, 04:34 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:11 PM
Hassan, did Islam conceal your sympathy and humanity? Did it condition you to become an uncaring idiot towards non-beleivers? Or would you say Islam played a role in making you the decent human being you are today? - it's a sincere question.

No Islam didn't do that to me and I don't believe it does that to the vast majority - but for some - yes it does.
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #36 - February 24, 2010, 04:36 PM

Ok wait, without the tasfirs, and scholarly explanations (using hadiths for historical reference), if going exactly by a word for word reading of the quran, it does say to kill apostates.

And if they turn away from belief, after they have believed, then kill them wherever you find them......or something along those lines.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #37 - February 24, 2010, 04:37 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:11 PM
Anyways I'm sure people like him (the person who left the comment) do not represent most Muslims - indeed I often see a lot of nice comments from Muslims on your site Hassan.

I'm sure he doesn't too - but I wouldn't like to say what the proportion of nasty comments are - at a guess I would say there are more nasty than nice - but I suppose that is to be expected and Youtube is infamous for idiots - so I don't take it seriously..
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #38 - February 24, 2010, 04:37 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 24, 2010, 04:26 PM
For a guy who believes that the scribblings of a murderous desert pedophile is the word of the divine creator himself you should be the last one talking of mental health issues....

Gotta admit that^ was a good troll.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #39 - February 24, 2010, 04:39 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:26 PM
My question was for Hassan not you

Oh, I realised that. I commented for everyone else here, but particularly any wavering muslims that might be reading the forum.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #40 - February 24, 2010, 04:39 PM

Quote from: IsLame on February 24, 2010, 04:33 PM
in that case which other religions do?of course, religion is what is prescribed in the books not what an individual interprets it to be - otherwise there are infinite Islams and it makes you right, Bin Laden right, AbuY right, Tailor right etcYou may think the Quran is the only book the represents Islam, sadly 99% of muslims would disagree with you. Death for apostacy is contained in the shariah law & hadith.. in fact the only reason its not in the Quran is because apostacy was not an overriding concern for Muhammed as it was a new religion, he was more concerned with converting people by preaching or by force.

Sahih Bukhari 4:260
The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’

Under Shariah Law, apostasy (either advocating the rejection of Islamic belief or announcing it by word or deeds) is not permitted and for a man is punishable by death. The punishment for a woman is more lenient - she must stay in prison until she reverts, however long it takes.

So women stop complaining about Islam - you can see some compassion in these words. At least you dont get killed automatically for not believing in Islam and instead get put in jail Guantanamo Bay style

See my answer to billy
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8866.msg222764#msg222764

and YES the Quran is the ONLY *holy* book for Muslims... I'm not disregarding Hadith of course, but Bukhari's book is NOT a holy book.

I'm not denying apstasy either... in the early Islamic state it was treated as treason and treason is punishable by death (since apostate women weren't as dangerous, they were treated badly rather than being killed.. in the old days apostasy = treason, not so anymore.)

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #41 - February 24, 2010, 04:42 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on February 24, 2010, 04:36 PM
Ok wait, without the tasfirs, and scholarly explanations (using hadiths for historical reference), if going exactly by a word for word reading of the quran, it does say to kill apostates.

And if they turn away from belief, after they have believed, then kill them wherever you find them......or something along those lines.

Verse number please? although I think you're referring to Surah 9.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #42 - February 24, 2010, 04:44 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 24, 2010, 04:37 PM
Gotta admit that^ was a good troll.

Iblis, wait till I get my hands on you, punk

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #43 - February 24, 2010, 04:45 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:44 PM
Iblis, wait till I get my hands on you, punk

Getting the musulman to resort to violence is like stealing candy from a baby...

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #44 - February 24, 2010, 04:45 PM
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #45 - February 24, 2010, 04:48 PM

In most cases ones humanity will overcome blind obedience to dogma - regardless of religion. But Islam (at least in some forms i.e. literalist/Salafi) without doubt provides one of the strongest blueprints for leading some people to losing sight of their humanity and doing unthinkable things. (It of course does not have a monopoly)
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #46 - February 24, 2010, 04:50 PM

btw, Iblis, what do you mean by MuslimAN? why the -AN?

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #47 - February 24, 2010, 04:51 PM

Indeed, seriously ignore them and focus on good people and their good wishes and things. Fight against the source of their wrong not them themselves.
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #48 - February 24, 2010, 04:52 PM

@ Yunus

I just wanted to confirm that your response to billy does indeed prove his point.. I hope you know what I mean.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #49 - February 24, 2010, 04:53 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 24, 2010, 04:34 PM
No Islam didn't do that to me and I don't believe it does that to the vast majority - but for some - yes it does.

''Hassan, did Islam conceal your sympathy and humanity?
Did it condition you to become an uncaring idiot towards non-beleivers?
Or would you say Islam played a role in making you the decent human being you are today? - it's a sincere question.''

Hassan was your reply above a response to the first two questions, and if so, what's your reply to the third question.

In addition for the minority of people that 'Islam makes into idiots' or 'poisonous snakes with venom in their fangs' as dear billy would put it - is it not possible that these people are just not very nice people in the first place and are just twisting religion to promote their unsavoury agendas?

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #50 - February 24, 2010, 04:53 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:50 PM
btw, Iblis, what do you mean by MuslimAN? why the -AN?

Musulman.

It's an archaic version of muslim used by turks, persians and desis. I'm pushing usage of the term as a derogotary and dismissive byword for beleivers. Wish me luck.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #51 - February 24, 2010, 04:54 PM

Anyway, it's not wrong or archaic... you can say Muslim, Muslim-AN, Muslim-Un, Muslim-IN, Muslim-U, Muslim-A, Muslim-I... it's ALL the SAME word in different grammatical positions.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #52 - February 24, 2010, 04:55 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:42 PM
Verse number please? although I think you're referring to Surah 9.

Yes, but to say that it has no bearing because it was for a specific time period, is only to confirm what we all say, Islam was a product of a certain time period and is no longer relevent in this day and age.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #53 - February 24, 2010, 04:57 PM

@ berbs

I didn't say anything... I'm still waiting for the verse number.

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #54 - February 24, 2010, 04:59 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:52 PM
@ Yunus

I just wanted to confirm that your response to billy does indeed prove his point.. I hope you know what I mean.

No I don't - he made a comment that I didn't agree with and therefore made my feelings clear. My response was not abusive in any manner - in fact I have not made any abusive comments since I have come on this forum. If he is allowed to say the things he says surely I'm allowed to respond in the manner I did???

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #55 - February 24, 2010, 05:00 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:54 PM

Anyway, it's not wrong or archaic... you can say Muslim, Muslim-AN, Muslim-Un, Muslim-IN, Muslim-U, Muslim-A, Muslim-I... it's ALL the SAME word in different grammatical positions.

Looks like its on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musulman

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #56 - February 24, 2010, 05:01 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 24, 2010, 04:45 PM
Getting the musulman to resort to violence is like stealing candy from a baby...

Who said I was gonna give you a beating?

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #57 - February 24, 2010, 05:01 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:53 PM
Or would you say Islam played a role in making you the decent human being you are today? - it's a sincere question.''

It may have played some role, though I doubt it played very much. I was 19 - 20 when I started practising Islam. Islam played little or no part in my upbringing and my father was hardly a good example of a Muslim. I suspect that our characters are pretty much formed by our early years - let alone by age 20. I think I am pretty much the same person I was as a youngster - just a few life lessons older that's all.

I'm not saying that Islam or any religion - and the values they teach - do not contribute to a persons character. But I suspect that it has far more to do with those Islamic values as displayed by the parents, environment, community etc... that really contribute to a persons character and that is not quite the same thing as saying that the religion in isolation is responsible. Clearly in some cases an Islamic upbringing can make some people total pricks, also. I assume you will say Islam is not to blame but the influences or interpretations that person was fed. Same thing for those who grow up with good characters!
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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #58 - February 24, 2010, 05:02 PM

@ Yunus

You dismissed his comments as having something to do with a past relationship.. this was a very cheap shot which proved billy's point. Got it?

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Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
Reply #59 - February 24, 2010, 05:06 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 24, 2010, 05:00 PM
Looks like its on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musulman

Like I said, I was confused as to why choose a certain grammatical position: Muslim-an... why not use the neutral grammatical position: Muslim... ok, now I know there's actually a story behind it it.

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