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 Topic: Hi from WikiIslam

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  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hi from WikiIslam
     OP - March 01, 2010, 11:30 PM
    Hi guys, I guess this is a second Hi from WikiIslam since Sanitarium has already been here. This forum is really important. Nice work! My goal is to keep the wiki away from extremism and right-wing attitudes as possible and be as scholarly as possible.

    My reasons for coming here were multiple:
    1) To say HI and tell you guys that you're doing a great job by having this forum.
    2) To say HI to Islame (fixed), and ask him permission to export his "letter to my religious cousin" to the wiki. This is great, you know why I ask this? Because Blackdog in #3 below mentioned that what you wrote there played an important role in his exit from Islam. I remember asking you for permission for something else before, not sure if this was it.
    3) To PM Blackdog and ask him to tell me more of how the wiki affected his faith (he left a message at the FFI forum)
    4) To ask if any of you would like to earn a little bit extra cash while working for the wiki (everything will be 100% safe and anonymous, just PM me if interested). We have one person currently working but we can use extra help. Comfortable hours, anonymous and all you gotta do is write Islam-critical articles under guidance.
    I tried posting links but it didnt let me since I'm new but yea, thats it.

    Whale
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #1 - March 02, 2010, 12:07 AM
    Welcome, whale. You haven't killed any Sea World trainers recently, have you? We're on the lookout for Orca fugitives around her.
    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #2 - March 02, 2010, 12:47 AM
    Welcome Whale, you serial killer whale you.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #3 - March 02, 2010, 01:10 AM
    Hello whale, greetings and a very warm welcome. Great work. Yes wiki needs to be free of bias but not of perspective. What I mean is that it needs to bring forth what muslims hide.

    We must not do any thing with wiki that may causes loss of our credibility.

    Keep up the good work.

    all the best.
    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #4 - March 02, 2010, 03:00 AM
    Welcome Whale  Smiley , Hassan is on a bit of a break, your best way to get his attention would be to pm him about it as I'm not sure he will see this thread.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #5 - March 02, 2010, 04:34 AM
    And wasn't it someone else who wrote "letter to my religious uncle" with the youtube vids/channel and all..? (can't recall the username, but I can hear his voice narrate, not Hassan)
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #6 - March 02, 2010, 04:44 AM
    That letter was written by IsLame.

    Btw, I don't think Hassan would agree to have his writings publish at sites that present views which are similar to those espoused at FFI. I have published his book at our wiki and I'm working on translating it into German. He allows me to do that, because he trusts me a lot.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #7 - March 02, 2010, 06:54 AM
    Hi Whale Smiley
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #8 - March 02, 2010, 06:55 AM
    I also like WikiIslam, certain articles there are very interesting… but it worries me that it might not be honest scholarly work. Is this really the case?
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #9 - March 02, 2010, 06:57 AM
    Hi Whale,

    As pointed out the article you refer to is by IsLame.

    I am very glad to read this: "My goal is to keep the wiki away from extremism and right-wing attitudes as possible and be as scholarly as possible.", but I do remain a little skeptical of Wikiislam as I have seen a few things on there that I wouldn't want to be associated with.

    I believe you have a video or two of mine up there, which I agreed with Sani, before Aziz started his Wiki, and so I have no problem with it/them staying up there, but I would rather not contribute anymore material for the reasons I stated above

    I also want to support Aziz's excellent efforts at setting up a Wiki. He has my 100% trust and confidence and so he has exclusive rights to all I do LOL  grin12
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #10 - March 02, 2010, 07:50 AM
    Greetings Whale.

    I'm the same Nour whose conversion/deconversion story is currently at the top of the 'New Testimonies from Former Muslims' list on your site. 

    I applaud your efforts to keep your site from becoming another FFI.

    I have some spare time on my hands at the moment so pm me and I'll see what I can do to help you out on your site.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #11 - March 02, 2010, 09:52 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 02, 2010, 06:57 AM
    I also want to support Aziz's excellent efforts at setting up a Wiki. He has my 100% trust and confidence and so he has exclusive rights to all I do LOL  grin12

    Thanks!  cool2  dance
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #12 - March 02, 2010, 10:16 AM
    Was that not by Islame? That is a very well written article to be honest.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #13 - March 02, 2010, 10:22 AM
    I think this is kind nonsense to be honest, that WikiIslam is not like FFI, the whole "Shameful Admissions" by Muslims just does not even fit WikiIslam counterproductive if you ask me.

    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #14 - March 02, 2010, 12:57 PM
    Hi guys!
    Oops yea, bad time to have a username like "whale".

    Hi Baal and BerberElla! Blackdog I'll PM you.

    Ah ok so that "letter to the cousin" was by IsLame then, I will ask him then.

    Aziz,
    let me know if you need any help for fighting vandalism and spam and stuff. Great to see Hassan's story on your wiki. Maybe I can just link to it with Hassan's permission. Please keep backups. I wish you good luck and lots of growth.

    As regards to FFI and Wikiislam, we're really separate from them in every way now. In the beginning the wiki was part of FFI and we were on FFI's server too. All that helped us get a section on Wikipedia's page on FFI. But we get only a small number of hits from that Wikipedia page so that mention is not important. Criticism of Islam comes in many flavors and its different flavors attract different people. If you ask me I feel FFI could tone down a bit but, to each his own. I dont care what they do. We are our own website with out own identity. I will update our FAQ at some point. I feel everyone is doing their part in fighting Islam in their own way and its ok if we dont agree with each other all the time. It doesn't matter to me. What I care about is the wiki. So the main purpose of this post from me is to ask your feedback about what you dont like WikiIslam and what I can do to make it better.

    Hi Hassan!
    Quote
    "I do remain a little skeptical of Wikiislam as I have seen a few things on there that I wouldn't want to be associated with."

    I'm here to take your suggestions do everything I can. Give me some examples and I will follow through. I know we arent perfect and some stuff exists there that I'd want to be worded in a different way. I just havent had time. Your feedback will help and is very important! Tell me what you didnt like there. Oh yea, we have some videos of you on our videos page, true.

    Thank you Nour! Yes I'll PM you, thanks for the offer to help. That was a great testimony. Thank you for submitting it. I wont link to it here incase it looks like I'm spamming :-D. If anyone wants to know the link, go to the wiki's main page and "new articles section" for the former muslims. Her testimony is at the top.

    King Tut
    Quote
    "I think this is kind nonsense to be honest, that WikiIslam is not like FFI, the whole "Shameful Admissions" by Muslims just does not even fit WikiIslam counterproductive if you ask me."

    The title "Shameful admissions" may need to be changed to something else that sounds less 'right-wing', however the comments there exist only to show some of the extreme opinions that Muslims have and those are only quotes from Muslims so its ok. Tell me what you dont like about that page. That page was created a long time ago too. We have a lot of other good stuff.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #15 - March 02, 2010, 01:15 PM
    Well for a state, you can remove all the SONA quotes, as those are clearly troll comments, and also Sona is not longer a Muslim. I just think the whole section needs to go, as it anecdotal, how do you prove those were Muslims and not just someone making the comments for the sake of trolling. Moreover, those quotes come from FFI forum, it is hardly a credible place.   

    I do know most other sections of WikiIslam are pretty good, in fact I use WikiIslam sometimes when I debate Muslims. But, I have had Muslims say to be its an "Ali Sina" website.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #16 - March 02, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Quote from: Whale on March 02, 2010, 12:57 PM
    Ah ok so that "letter to the cousin" was by IsLame then, I will ask him then.

    Aziz,
    let me know if you need any help for fighting vandalism and spam and stuff. Great to see Hassan's story on your wiki. Maybe I can just link to it with Hassan's permission. Please keep backups. I wish you good luck and lots of growth.


    Thats fine Whale I dont mind you using it.  I would like to share my resource, it only takes one person for it to help, to have made it worth it.  I agree with Hass, the site does need to go through a de-weeding process, and am pleased you acknowledge that "shameful testimonies" is not something that is needed on an encycloepedic site like this.

    I believe if it comes across as a biased source, then few people that matter will take it seriously.  In any case, I think my blog is fairly well balanced, so if it in itself helps to tone down the site then its a win-win. 
    I think you and Aziz could gain a lot of help from each other on this project, so I hope you both are willing to help each other.

    So I am happy to let you have it for the time being in the hope that changes will be made.  You can find the link in my signature.  Please also feel free to use any of my youtube vidoes in my signature too under the same conditions.

    P.S Let us know a little more about you, and how you got involved..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #17 - March 02, 2010, 06:41 PM
    Ok King Tut (Sona), I removed one of your quotes, the war booty one. Its fine for now. I've explained to you before why we should still have some of your other quotes on that page when you were a muslim.
    Quote
    But, I have had Muslims say to be its an "Ali Sina" website.

    Doesnt matter, no muslim likes the wiki in any case because its anti-Islamic.

    Thanks Islame, is it possible for you to email me that original file to wikiislam -at- yahoo.com, then I can import it into wiki format easier.

    Tell ya guys I got some feedback for this site. No one asked for it I know but here I go:
    - loads slow. Look at other hosts, they're cheap at $8/month
    - main page of the site should just have the forum, after all thats what everyone here comes for.
    - stuff on the left is good, the latest threads and so on
    - make links on the main page for your wiki's best articles
    - sucks I gotta type a captcha for each private message. I'm sure phpBB knows how to do this right and fight spam but not inconvenience normal users. Maybe its because I'm new, not sure.
    - not sure why you guys went with this forum software and say, not phpBB
    - sucks not bieng able to post links. Having a captcha at registration is enough to stop spammers. One spammer who gets through that a month is ok, if it allows new people to post links.
    K, I'm done. Thanks for the chance to let me vent.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #18 - March 02, 2010, 06:50 PM
    Quote from: Whale on March 02, 2010, 06:41 PM
    Thanks Islame, is it possible for you to email me that original file to wikiislam -at- yahoo.com, then I can import it into wiki format easier.

    will do
    Quote
    Tell ya guys I got some feedback for this site. No one asked for it I know but here I go:
    - loads slow. Look at other hosts, they're cheap at $8/month
    - main page of the site should just have the forum, after all thats what everyone here comes for.

    Thanks for your comments - I'll post this on the thread we are currently discussing the front page..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #19 - March 02, 2010, 07:11 PM
    hi Islame
    Oops sorry I missed answering that. First, do you have a testimony of leaving Islam anywhere? If not, please submit one on the wiki if you like. It would be great. I can link your video and the "letter/cousin" there too. What do you think?
    How I got involved, well it was 2005 I think and I found out there's lots of wikis with the free mediawiki software so I came up with the idea of having a 'wikiislam' too (logical conclusion) and the FFI server admin at that time gave me some server space and so we started. So as to how I got involved, I'm really the only person responsible for it as far as running it is concerned. All the stuff was put in by editors ofcourse doing hours and hours of work split amongst me, Sanitarium, Gabe (helped a lot), Natassia and others. There used to be an editor Selfworm but he doesnt edit now but he did a lot of work in the beginning. We keep data backups in multiple locations so if anything happens to me, everything will be restored from somewhere else by someone else. Thats pretty much it. Its been a slow journey and a long way to go in many aspects but since we're all short of time we do what we can.

    Ok guys, I linked the COEX site and the Wiki here and there on WikiIslam where appropriate.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #20 - March 02, 2010, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Whale on March 02, 2010, 07:11 PM
    hi Islame
    Oops sorry I missed answering that. First, do you have a testimony of leaving Islam anywhere? If not, please submit one on the wiki if you like. It would be great. I can link your video and the "letter/cousin" there too. What do you think?



    Sounds ok - I will try and did out an "about me" for you that I use on youtube.

    Where do you get the funding from if the project is not linked to FFI? Also please tell us a little bit about yourself..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #21 - March 02, 2010, 07:24 PM
    You can use this excerpt from my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/ExMuslimUK

    Quote
    I am an agnostic humanist born in the UK, and of Indo-Pakistani descent.

    I have produced these videos from my blog/letter to my cousin (full transcript http://www.scribd.com/doc/19390943/Islam) because I dont want anyone else to go through the same feelings of guilt and sadness that I experienced during my process of re-evaluation. I hope that it provides the other side of the story in a balanced fashion, and saves others on the years of research that lead me to my present day conclusions.

    I reguarly fasted, used to pray 5 times a day, I even kept a tally on the wall for the kaza prayers I had missed in case I forgot to do them later. All in all I tried my best to remain a good muslim.

    However I could never rid myself of my doubts. I felt bad and alone, as I had never come across a muslim apostate before, There had to be something evil and wrong with me. I kept quiet and became insular and with great sadness, the more I looked into it, the greater my doubts grew.

    That was right up till the day that my cousin said that I could not keep interpreting Islam to taste. I had to accept everything in the Quran was perfect or face the fact that I was not a Muslim. Before university I decided I could no longer continue this charade, so I accepted it to him, but more importantly to myself.

    From that day my mind was finally set free from my self-imposed exile.

    I later wrote a letter in reply to further questioning from him (see attached transcript above), and the videos were created from it.

    Please add me on facebook - my facebook page is http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000355094588

    If you would to discuss any of the issues raised here, then please visit me at the forum for the Council of ex-muslims (my member name is Islame at http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?action=forum) and you will find a friendly group of people for a chat, irrespective of whether you are Muslim or not. Here I will also be pleased to answer any questions you may have about me or challenges you wish to present.

    Until then...

    Respectfully

    Saif

     
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #22 - March 02, 2010, 08:24 PM
    Whale, here is an article I had written which might be of interest to you, you are free to use it.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8681.0
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #23 - March 02, 2010, 08:39 PM
    Saif
    Thanks a lot, I got you there now. It doesnt allow me to post a link. Any thing I can use for your birth year? (for approximate age)

    The wiki is cheap to run, I've spent my own money and some people have donated for various stuff but those donations were for paying people to work for us (a lot of work was done). A small site like ours and this one costs a few dollars a month to run (5/10), domain names cost the same amount per year so its cheap. The real cost is the commitment and time put into it by everyone.

    I got a suggestion for you: to start a group of "ex-muslims" on facebook, if such a thing can exist on FB, not sure.

    King Tut, thanks its a good article, a little short though but a good start. Thanks for the link, I'll consider it for the wiki.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #24 - March 03, 2010, 04:23 AM
    1972, the facebook site has been done, but we could do with a decent exmuslim facebook group I guess.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #25 - March 03, 2010, 04:51 AM
    I think for exmuslims it is nonmuslims that should be more important than muslims as a target for the information.

    To nonmuslims we must provide the best and most effective information as a tool that we can so that they could undermine islam from outside. Only when this happens the people inside islam will feel the pressure and islam will collapse.

    Decades back I started out trying to convince muslims but I could not so I instead targeted nonmuslims and now we have the result. This was my suggestion on ffi forum as well.

    Islam is truly bad so we do not need to do anything other than use islamic sources to bring out in the open what muslims hide.

    Islam is dangerous as an ideology because it is protected by tribalism. If muslims were a society wherein individuals had reasonable freedom then islam could not have survive for this long.

    We cannot get islam without getting tribalism. Tribal chiefs are war lords who dictate what islam is and what it is not. They appoint religious leaders and they appoint political leaders or armed forces chiefs as well as it is they who provide soldiers. It is they who prevent masses from education that does not suit them. Fighting against freedom, secularism, democracy, human rights, separation between religion and state is their personal war. Why? Because all this breaks or weakens their hold on power in form of their ownership of what they think is their property ie their families.

    This is why they pull different strings as situations demands of them to fool the world as well as their own people. They use religious leaders where it suits them and political leaders where it suits them and army chiefs where that suits them or their private armies where that is necessary. They try and preserve their thsi way of life by all means. They have set up a moving target idea both for outside world and their own people. If outside world becomes angry with them, they blame it on the one or the other faction inside the tribe and if inside people become angry they blame the outside forces so they stay put without being disturbed much by either inside or outside people. This tribal game needs to be fully understood before one can succeed against islam and muslims.

    You cannot get rid of tribalism by paying them to fight each other, for they switch sides for show to get paid more and more for doing absolutely nothing. This is why terrorism in islamic world cannot be gotten rid of.

    People who are not tribal societies themselves do not realise how muslim tribal chiefs play their games to fool everyone in order to survive. Islamic Tribal terror will not be defeated unless their are wars against tribes to subdue them to bring them under rule of law. That is what muhammad did 1400 years back ie gave them what they wanted and they joined him. Since we cannot join them or give them what they want so we are bound to fight them to bring them aboard our way of thinking and living. So we must not compromise our principles. Tribal alliances run very deep and very wide in muslim world. Islam re-enforced tribalism right from the time of muhammad.

    Tribal chiefs send their children for education out side islamic world so that they learn better ways of fighting outside world as well as to learn what new threats may be rising against them to fight off so that they could learn new ways or tricks for defending themselves.

    So the real danger comes from powerful muslims tribal chiefs and their families and close relatives. Suicide bombers and loud mouth mullahs are just the tip of the iceberg. We can keep putting individual muslim terrorism suspects behind bars but the islamic threat will not stop till we deal a final blow at the power base of tribalism ie we must cut off the heads of tribal chiefs and dismantle tribalism to free all under their sway. Unless this done muslims will never find freedom to be secular to develop democracy based upon human rights, separating religion and state, for peace to progress and prosper.

    So making web sites to suit muslims will not really be a good but we must not go out of our way to offend them. Criticizing islam is different from throwing abuse at muhammad. We can bring forth accusations against allah, islam, quran and muhammad etc etc and put forth the evidence we have but not swear at them. I never saw the need for doing that. It is better to make fun of them than abuse them using swearing words. We must be civilized when discussing things with muslims. Moreover it is better that we use different approaches so that we are more effective as muslims too are diverse people so diffeent things will work for different people.
     
    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #26 - March 03, 2010, 04:56 AM
    Quote from: Mughal on March 03, 2010, 04:51 AM

    So making web sites to suit muslims will not really be a good but we must not go out of our way to offend them. Criticizing islam is different from throwing abuse at muhammad. We can bring forth accusations against allah, islam, quran and muhammad etc etc and put forth the evidence we have but not swear at them. I never saw the need for doing that. It is better to make fun of them than abuse them using swearing words. We must be civilized when discussing things with muslims. Moreover it is better that we use different approaches so that we are more effective as muslims too are diverse people so diffeent things will work for different people.
     

    Precisely, Different strokes for Different Folks.  This is an argument I have warmed too during FFIs presence here, and I think we should bear this is mind before we begin mindless FFI bashing..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #27 - March 03, 2010, 11:19 AM
    Hi Mughal I agree, criticism of Islam should be done in the best way possible. Actually I wanted to write an article on the wiki about the various "classes" of criticisms.

    BlackDog and Hassan, I'm still waiting for you guys to tell me what you didnt like about WikiIslam, or if there were any specific articles you didnt like. Feedback please!
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #28 - March 03, 2010, 12:03 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 03, 2010, 04:56 AM
    Precisely, Different strokes for Different Folks.  This is an argument I have warmed too during FFIs presence here, and I think we should bear this is mind before we begin mindless FFI bashing..


    Thank you very much, Islame.

    It should also be remembered that FFI is not a homogeneous community; the only common theme among the members there is opposition to Islam. You can also see atheists vs Christians or Hindus vs Christians hot debates going on there any day. It is a kind of free for all place; even the Muslims seem to like it (in a negative way of course).

    But I digress, and this issue should stop right here, at least in this thread. I couldn't keep myself from commenting after reading your statement.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Hi from WikiIslam!
     Reply #29 - March 03, 2010, 02:27 PM
    Quote from: Whale on March 03, 2010, 11:19 AM
    Hassan, I'm still waiting for you guys to tell me what you didnt like about WikiIslam, or if there were any specific articles you didnt like. Feedback please!


    I am on a break from this forum, so this is my last post on this matter.

    There have been many things I have read that I found distorted or biased but I'm not going to wade through it all to pick them out - so the example of your article on Taqiyya will have to suffice.

    http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Taqiyya

    Muslims are NOT taught that lying is acceptable (to Non-Muslim or Muslim) and most have never heard of the concept of Taqiyya - let alone go around deviously lying to non-Muslims.

    The Qur'an says that anyone under threat is allowed to renounce his faith - I see nothing unreasonable - nor unique - about that ?

    The Wikipedia article also says:

    "Islam is the only world-religion that implies in its scriptures that it is ever permissible (or even encouraged) to lie."

    Here are some verses from the Bible that allow lying:

    http://sunandshield.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/is-it-ever-ok-to-lie/

    I'm sorry but I hate the way this Taqiyya issue has been blown out of all proportion and fuels a great deal of the demonisation of ordinary, peaceful Muslims - and violence against my own family.

    I'm sorry, Whale, but I personally can never contribute to anything that helps fuel this.


    EDIT: This video might give you a better picture of my stance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO00lao-AOE

    Now I'm going to watch England v Egypt!  Afro
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