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 Topic: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?

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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #90 - March 05, 2010, 02:43 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on March 05, 2010, 02:30 PM
    The total energy of the universe is zero, and it does not violate conservation of energy.  

    It does at the beginning of the universe.
    Quote from: King Tut on March 05, 2010, 02:28 PM
    Consciousness, and the ability of a humans moving out of Africa.  

    Please elaborate.  I am yet to understand the consciousness issue that so many harp on about here, and what is so difficult about moving out of Africa - they used boats..
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #91 - March 05, 2010, 02:53 PM
    consciousness is a powerful argument. Here this sums it all up:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBcYa1K718

    Please do watch the video, the Solipsism argument is extremely powerful.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #92 - March 05, 2010, 03:03 PM
    Here, Rama explains alot better then me:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWmTJALe1w
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #93 - March 05, 2010, 04:45 PM
    Thanks Tut - I watched both videos, but still I fail to see why consciousness is a powerful argument against atheism.  In other words neither video failed to explain why consciousness is not a simply the sum of our memory + our senses.

    At the end of the day Rama is an agnostic too, so it cant be that strong an argument  Smiley
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #94 - March 05, 2010, 05:12 PM
    Again none of these are arguments for a god. They are just questions.there is no reason to fill gaps with 'god' anymore than to fill them with time ninjas.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #95 - March 05, 2010, 06:07 PM
    Quote from: Homer on March 05, 2010, 05:12 PM
    Again none of these are arguments for a god. They are just questions.there is no reason to fill gaps with 'god' anymore than to fill them with time ninjas.


    Is it a coincidence that I am watching "Ninja Assassin" right now?

    You know, Homer, what is the sad part of this exchange?

    We are discussing it on a forum dominated by atheists. How I wish we had some intelligent believers right now to argue against us.

    I miss debunker right now. Abuyunus is a good one too. Come on guys!!!
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #96 - March 05, 2010, 06:08 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 05, 2010, 11:40 AM

    Out of the conservative estimate of 10 million billion planets on this universe, I guess laws of probablility would dictate that at least one planet would have all of these specific conditions to create life at some point of their 12 billion year history.  One would have the specific properties to be made of solid diamond.  One would have the properties of another form of existence (be that life or something else) and so on so forth. Unfortunately we have only seen an infinitessimely small portion of the universe so we simply dont know much outside of our own galaxy yet.



    I don't think you fully appreciate the problem Islame. If the values of numerous different constants varied even by a tiny fraction stars and galaxies and even elements such as carbon would not form and there would not be any potential for life. For example if the force of gravity was a bit higher, then after the big bang the universe would have 'ended' in a big crunch rather quickly. If it was a bit weaker, atoms would not have collected into stars and galaxies. If the strong nuclear force were slightly stronger even hydrogen atoms would not be able to form, and if it was slighltly weaker stable stars would not form. If the relationship between the strong nuclear force and the electromagnetic force was off even by a very very tiny fraction heavier elements such as carbon would not form. These are but just a few examples.

    Even then, I am sure I have not done justice to explaining the fine tuning problem. If you are interested though, I recommend 'Just six numbers' written by Sir Martin Rees (Astronomer Royal and Professor at Cambridge University). He is an Atheist but a strong proponent of multiverse theories.

    On the other hand as you imply I do find it odd that God would create the vast cosmos that we cannot even contemplate with our minds and that we would still apparently be so important to Him. However this is no reason for me to deny He created the Universe. Did He create the whole Universe just for the purpose of humans? That's another question and is open for debate. As a Muslim I don't think we have any way of knowing this. Maybe there are beings on another planet in another Galaxy that have also been created by God. How do we know this isn't the case?
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #97 - March 05, 2010, 06:09 PM
    The most powerful argument against atheism is the Prophet Muhammad's sword.  cool2
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #98 - March 05, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: Homer on March 05, 2010, 05:12 PM
    Again none of these are arguments for a god. They are just questions.there is no reason to fill gaps with 'god' anymore than to fill them with time ninjas.


    Spoken like a true Atheist. A hypothetical God has the ability to create things. Do time ninjas have this ability?
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #99 - March 05, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 05, 2010, 06:09 PM
    The most powerful argument against atheism is the Prophet Muhammad's sword.  cool2


     Cheesy
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #100 - March 05, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on March 05, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Do time ninjas have this ability?


    Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #101 - March 05, 2010, 06:12 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 05, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Cheesy


    Haha, naw mean? A quick threat of CoRan-inspired violence will turn any god-debate into an instant theist victory!
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #102 - March 05, 2010, 06:14 PM
    @abu

    Dude, how many times do I have to tell you that there is no god but Slaanesh. And She created the universe so that She can assrape everybody! I deeply believe that! This is not trolling in case you are wondering – I can provide ample “evidence” for the said fact; both internal and external.
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #103 - March 05, 2010, 06:18 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on March 05, 2010, 06:08 PM
    I don't think you fully appreciate the problem Islame. If the values of numerous different constants varied even by a tiny fraction stars and galaxies and even elements such as carbon would not form and there would not be any potential for life. For example if the force of gravity was a very tiny fraction higher, then at the big bang the universe would have 'ended' in a big crunch within moments. If it was a tiny fraction weaker, atoms would not have collected into stars and galaxies. If the strong nuclear force were slightly stronger even hydrogen atoms would not be able to form, and if it was slighltly weaker stable stars would not form. If the relationship between the strong nuclear force and the electromagnetic force was off even by a tiny fraction heavier elements such as carbon would not form.

    I thought you were talking about our origins and general physical laws in relation to us & our earth, which in universal terms is unimportant.  However, here you are talking about the whole universe and the universe IS important.  Its everything that IS.

    In that case I see what you mean and you're right - this for me is the most powerful argument against atheism, and in itself a good reason to remain agnostic  Afro
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #104 - March 05, 2010, 06:19 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on March 05, 2010, 06:14 PM
    @abu

    Dude, how many times do I have to tell you that there is no god but Slaanesh. And She created the universe so that She can assrape everybody! I deeply believe that! This is not trolling in case you are wondering – I can provide ample “evidence” for the said fact; both internal and external.


    Inslannesh. Ass-rape walaykum.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #105 - March 05, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Kenan, if you say so bedrin, I won't attack you for your beliefs. Is assrape the extent of Slaanesh's plan for us? It's great you have evidence for Slaanesh - it's a lot more than I have for my God.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #106 - March 05, 2010, 06:26 PM
    CIA and MI5, this dude is an undecover Muuuslim. Get him.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #107 - March 05, 2010, 06:27 PM
    Actually fuck that. I'm deleting that post.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #108 - March 05, 2010, 07:00 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on March 05, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Kenan, if you say so bedrin, I won't attack you for your beliefs.

    Thanks! Appreciated!

    Quote from: abuyunus2 on March 05, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Is assrape the extent of Slaanesh's plan for us?

    No of course not. The plan is extremely wholesome and includes various forms of pleasure/pain activities.

    Quote from: abuyunus2 on March 05, 2010, 06:20 PM
    It's great you have evidence for Slaanesh - it's a lot more than I have for my God.

    Just last night I suddenly woke up in the middle of the night because I was being sexually assaulted. In the morning I asked my wife if she had noticed anything unusual going on during the night but her response was somewhat vague. I guess it could have been a dream but I have a hard time explaining the scratch marks. Therefore the only logical conclusion is that Slaanesh answered my prayers and granted me a personal audience. You know when people claim they have been visited by angels? It's just like that but it also involves stuff that requires lots of Astroglide.


  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #109 - March 05, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on March 05, 2010, 07:00 PM
    You know when people claim they have been visited by angels? It's just like that but it also involves stuff that requires lots of Astroglide.


     Cheesy
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #110 - March 05, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 05, 2010, 04:45 PM
    Thanks Tut - I watched both videos, but still I fail to see why consciousness is a powerful argument against atheism.  In other words neither video failed to explain why consciousness is not a simply the sum of our memory + our senses.

    At the end of the day Rama is an agnostic too, so it cant be that strong an argument  Smiley


    Are you also an agnostic about pink flying unicorns at the end of your garden at night when you are not looking?
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #111 - March 05, 2010, 08:31 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on March 05, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Are you also an agnostic about pink flying unicorns at the end of your garden at night when you are not looking?

    Yes of course
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #112 - March 05, 2010, 08:36 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on March 05, 2010, 07:26 AM
    Agnosticism, in my view, is the result of unwillingness to let go of the hangover of beliefs completely..

    I don't have any problems with a non creator God which is ever evolving.

    Can you categorically say there is no such thing as a deist God?  If so, then doesnt that make you an agnostic too?
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #113 - March 05, 2010, 08:38 PM
    I think it depends on what 'god' concept we speak of. When it comes to the god of Islam or Christianity. I am an atheist and anti-theist. When it comes to the concept of a higher power, or some greater meaning in life.. I am somewhat agnostic. Existence, ultimately, is mysterious.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #114 - March 05, 2010, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 05, 2010, 08:38 PM
    I think it depends on what 'god' concept we speak of. When it comes to the god of Islam or Christianity. I am an atheist and anti-theist. When it comes to the concept of a higher power, or some greater meaning in life.. I am somewhat agnostic. Existence, ultimately, is mysterious.

    the definition of agnostic does not specify the Abrahmic god, its ANY god
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #115 - March 05, 2010, 08:44 PM
    Atheism specifies lack of belief in a supernatural creator who intervenes in the affairs of the universe. I'm wondering though is anyone here an adeist?
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #116 - March 05, 2010, 08:46 PM
    Problem is that there is no reason to push any sort of deity into this equation.
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #117 - March 05, 2010, 08:52 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on March 05, 2010, 08:44 PM
    Atheism specifies lack of belief in a supernatural creator who intervenes in the affairs of the universe.

    Not true.  Atheism is derived from Greek atheos and means godless (a = without; theos = god)
    Quote
    I'm wondering though is anyone here an adeist?

    Hassan used to be, then he became, I quote, "a freethinking deist, with agnostic tendencies and atheistic moments".  Now I think he's agnostic.  Nour might be, not sure.
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  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #118 - March 05, 2010, 08:55 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 05, 2010, 08:31 PM
    Yes of course


    What about flying shit?
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: What do you think is the most powerful argument against atheism?
     Reply #119 - March 05, 2010, 09:00 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 05, 2010, 08:52 PM
    Not true.  Atheism is derived from Greek atheos and means godless (a = without; theos = god) Hassan used to be, then he became, I quote, "a freethinking deist, with agnostic tendencies and atheistic moments".  Now I think he's agnostic.  Nour might be, not sure.


    I see so atheism refers to any god whether theistic or just a creator/original cause. I can understand Hassan's position on the matter, I kind of feel the same.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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