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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Niqabs/Burqa should be..
  • Allowed - 12 (23.5%)
  • Partially Banned - 23 (45.1%)
  • Banned - 16 (31.4%)
  • Total Voters: 51

 Topic: Ban Niqab?

 (Read 37073 times)
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  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #150 - July 17, 2010, 10:07 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    Why are you discriminating against 'lack of clothes'?
    It's my right to be naked! If the state deems it's not  allowed then it's infringing on my rights to choose my mode of dressing, in this case: no dress at all. If at all  restrictions on what you can wear is location specific then it's only fair that all choices are affected . Moreover who decides on the restrictions?



    But you don't have the right to annoy anyone else with your nudity...  Therefore you can go naked in a designated area, where people would not mind seeing fat hairy naked bodies.  If I go into one of those areas myself, then I would keep shtum..  

    Being naked is as much of a dress code as atheism is a religion.

    The communities in those areas can decide what they want to see in their neighbourhood and apply to get it recognised legally.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #151 - July 17, 2010, 10:15 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
    If she had a beard under the veil, how could I possibly see it considering the veils purpose is to cover the face?


    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #152 - July 17, 2010, 10:16 AM
    I'm not playing along am I? Sorry :(

    I get like that sometimes. Internet: Serious business
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #153 - July 17, 2010, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 10:16 AM
    I'm not playing along am I? Sorry :(

    I get like that sometimes. Internet: Serious business
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Fixed. And I know your type, not at all because I'm also be the same sometimes. Tongue

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #154 - July 17, 2010, 10:25 AM
    lol
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #155 - July 17, 2010, 10:26 AM
    Quote from: thinkfree on July 17, 2010, 10:23 AM
    Fixed. And I know your type, not at all because I'm also be the same sometimes. Tongue

    (Clicky for piccy!)


     Cheesy

    Love that picture, I'm stealing it and yeah, I get like that sometimes.
    Dammit, just admit you are all wrong so I can go eat breakfast!  finmad
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #156 - July 17, 2010, 10:27 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 10:26 AM
    Cheesy

    Love that picture, I'm stealing it and yeah, I get like that sometimes.
    Dammit, just admit you are all wrong so I can go eat breakfast!  finmad


    I've just had tuna for dinner and you're still thinking about breakfast?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #157 - July 17, 2010, 10:31 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 10:27 AM
    I've just had tuna for dinner and you're still thinking about breakfast?


    It's 11.30 in the morning in London

    Where are you from?
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #158 - July 17, 2010, 10:38 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 10:31 AM
    It's 11.30 in the morning in London

    Where are you from?


    Malta, if it's 11.30 you should be thinking about dinner now.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #159 - July 17, 2010, 10:41 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 10:38 AM
    Malta, if it's 11.30 you should be thinking about dinner now.


    I can't eat dinner before breakfast o.O
    It has to be in order
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #160 - July 17, 2010, 10:42 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 09:57 AM
    This law is discriminatory. Plain and simple.
    France already is on tense terms with its Muslim community with accusations of biased and unfair targeting
    What has now happened is people have basically taken a sector of the populace that is already feeling outside of the mainstream and made rules specifically aimed at their exercise of religion.


    I hope you support Muslim countries limiting other groups freedom of expression. If you do support it, at least you get points for consistency.

    State intervention on this? No thank you.


    Whether you like it or not, getting into the mainstream involves compromises,as it's not an utopia. Ironically that's the state's declared intent--getting these people into the mainstream.They see this pigheaded insistence on wearing a religious symbol as a reluctance to assimilate into a secular society.
    Where has France said you can't practice Islam? Yes! since it's being followed in France and not Saudi Arabia  there are bound to be certain minor changes that don't cause earth shaking effects to your religion.
    LOL! in Muslim countries they go for the jugular of the minorities, ask the coptic christians of egypt. France is a pet kitty as compared to the ferocious tigers that   most Muslim countries are reported to be. Admittedly this is from what I have read, and I would be happy to be proved wrong.


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #161 - July 17, 2010, 10:45 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 17, 2010, 10:42 AM
    Whether you like it or not, getting into the mainstream involves compromises,as it's not an utopia. Ironically that's the state's declared intent--getting these people into the mainstream.They see this pigheaded insistence on wearing a religious symbol as a reluctance to assimilate into a secular society.
    Where has France said you can't practice Islam? Yes! since it's being followed in France and not Saudi Arabia then there are bound to be certain minor changes that don't cause earth shaking effects to your religion.
    LOL! in Muslim countries they go for the jugular of the minorities, ask the coptic christians of egypt. France is a pet kitty as compared to the ferocious tigers that the most Muslim countries are reported to be. Admittedly this is from what I have read, and I would be happy to be proved wrong.



    Why should they force people to assimilate?  It sounds sinister.  It's their fault for allowing them to come in their country in the first place.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #162 - July 17, 2010, 10:49 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 17, 2010, 10:42 AM
    LOL! in Muslim countries they go for the jugular of the minorities, ask the coptic christians of egypt.


    Why are you against Muslim countries protecting their culture? Surely it is up to the minorities to go into the "mainstream" and that takes compromises
    If Muslims find it offensive, why shouldn't they ban it? The Christians can leave if they do not like lack of religious freedom in Egypt as clearly freedom of expression is not that important if it can be fiddled by the State whenever they please.

    And no they should not be forced to assimilate, all this law will do is push them even further away.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #163 - July 17, 2010, 10:50 AM
    it seems there are clear divisions amongst the people are free to do as they want vs people cannot do everything they want.

    I'm waiting for the ban. I'm convinced more and more that it's going to happen. It's going to cause a huge shit-storm


    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #164 - July 17, 2010, 10:52 AM
    I'm going Paris in a few months time.

    I'm unpacking my niqab for the special occasion  
    Bring on the party  fest42

    But yes, it'll be highly amusing watching France's law being struck down in European Court of Human Rights and that doesn't even take into France's own constitution Afro
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #165 - July 17, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 10:49 AM
    Why are you against Muslim countries protecting their culture? Surely it is up to the minorities to go into the "mainstream" and that takes compromises
    If Muslims find it offensive, why shouldn't they ban it? The Christians can leave if they do not like lack of religious freedom in Egypt as clearly freedom of expression is not the that important if it can be fiddled by the State whenever they please.

    And no they should not be forced to assimilate, all this law will do is push them even further away.


    I hope you do not object to us protecting our own culture then, and by the way, the Coptic Orthodox church is native to Egypt and has a history in that country that is much older than that of Islam, the Copts are not migrants, they are the people who remained Christian.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #166 - July 17, 2010, 10:55 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 10:54 AM
    I hope you do not object to us protecting our own culture then, and by the way, the Coptic Orthodox church is native to Egypt and has a history in Egypt that is much older than that of Islam, the Copts are not migrants, they are the people who remained Christian.


    I think it is a symbol of how truly weak and insecure some European countries find their culture if a few women in extra cloth is so feared that it'll bring down their culture that they need to ban it.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #167 - July 17, 2010, 11:01 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 10:55 AM
    I think it is a symbol of how truly weak and insecure some European countries find their culture if a few women in extra cloth is so feared that it'll bring down their culture that they need to ban it.


    Indeed, you can thank the slime that is in power in various European countries for that.  I don't blame the niqabiyyas at all actually..  I blame the people who let them in and allowed Saudi wahhabis to spread their influence around Europe, while sometimes actively degrading their own history and culture.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #168 - July 17, 2010, 11:06 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 11:01 AM
    Indeed, you can thank the slime that is in power in various European countries for that.  I don't blame the niqabiyyas at all actually..  I blame the people who let them in and allowed Saudi wahhabis to spread their influence around Europe.


    Such a weak and insecure culture will never survive in the long term.

    What I find even more disgusting about this law and those who support it, is that the burka is not even widespread, so this was specifically aimed at a small minority just for no reason than in my view racism veiled as liberation.
    I hope Muslims in France all donate and create a fund to pay off the fines for those who wish to wear the burka.

    Edit: I spoke and it happened. A fund has been set up by Muslim millionaire businessmen  Afro
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #169 - July 17, 2010, 11:10 AM
    i wonder how many non muslims p would wear a niqab, just so the millionaire businessman could pay their fine. He wouldn't be a millionaire for long.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #170 - July 17, 2010, 11:11 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:06 AM
    Such a weak and insecure culture will never survive in the long term.

    What I find even more disgusting about this law and those who support it, is that the burka is not even widespread, so this was specifically aimed at a small minority just for no reason than in my view racism veiled as liberation.
    I hope Muslims in France all donate and create a fund to pay off the fines for those who wish to wear the burka.

    Edit: I spoke and it happened. A fund has been set up by Muslim millionaire businessmen  Afro



    It has to do more with fear and having to admit that their policies do not work than racism..

     I'm at odds about it personally.  Given my values I could not support any sort of banning but then I'll be honest enough to say that I wanted to live in a place full of niqabiyyas I would have gone to Saudi Arabia, not let it come to me.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #171 - July 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 17, 2010, 11:10 AM
    i wonder how many non muslims p would wear a niqab, just so the millionaire businessman could pay their fine.
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    That would be pretty funny to watch.  Grin

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #172 - July 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 17, 2010, 11:10 AM
    i wonder how many non muslims p would wear a niqab, just so the millionaire businessman could pay their fine.
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Good point..
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #173 - July 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 11:11 AM

    It has to do more with fear and having to admit that their policies do not work than racism..  I'm at odds about it personally.  Given my values I could not support any sort of banning but then I'll be honest enough to say that I wanted to live in a place full of niqabiyyas I would have gone to Saudi Arabia, not let it come to me.


    This is fear and paranoia about Muslims at play here.
    Thank God I do not live in France. I'd hate to be a Muslim there right now, the intense scrutiny must be horrible.
    They are marginalizing a group of people for no reason than what "may" happen. You can see it happening across Europe.
    If Niqabs were widespread but it is not, a very small minority wear which makes this ban even more ridiculous.

    I oh love how this widespread antagonism toward Muslim is increasing as recession and right wing parties rise across Europe but considering Europe's history with flirting with the right, I have no idea why I am surprised.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #174 - July 17, 2010, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
    This is fear and paranoia about Muslims at play here.
    Thank God I do not live in France. I'd hate to be a Muslim there right now, the intense scrutiny must be horrible.
    They are marginalizing a group of people for no reason than what "may" happen. You can see it happening across Europe.
    If Niqabs were widespread but it is not, a very small minority wear which makes this ban even more ridiculous.


    What will happen, if Saudi influence continues for one.  The blame for marginalisation is not solely on the EU governments, though it is their fault for empowering 'community leaders' and allowing to patronise their own and let them do what they want.

    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
    I oh love how this widespread antagonism toward Muslim is increasing as recession and right wing parties rise across Europe but considering Europe's history with flirting with the right, I have no idea why I am surprised.


    The ordinary majority did not want those things to be imported, they were simply ignored by the ruling elite that looked down upon them and their own culture.  Flirting with the far right is the inevitable result.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #175 - July 17, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
    This is fear and paranoia about Muslims at play here.
    Thank God I do not live in France. I'd hate to be a Muslim there right now, the intense scrutiny must be horrible.
    They are marginalizing a group of people for no reason than what "may" happen. You can see it happening across Europe.
    If Niqabs were widespread but it is not, a very small minority wear which makes this ban even more ridiculous.

    I oh love how this widespread antagonism toward Muslim is increasing as recession and right wing parties rise across Europe but considering Europe's history with flirting with the right, I have no idea why I am surprised.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU3N3kNmMvc
    Quote
    Parisian boys without your names
    Riot like 1968 again
    The days of rage yeah nothing's changed
    more pretty flames

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #176 - July 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Well I don't care who does what, where and when as long as it doesn't encroach on ME.   As long as nobody tries to force their views and cultures on me I'm not really bothered what anyone else gets up to.

    Wrong or right that's how I feel.
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #177 - July 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 11:23 AM
    What will happen, if Saudi influence continues for one.  The blame for marginalisation is not solely on the EU governments, though it is their fault for empowering 'community leaders' and allowing to patronise their own and let them do what they want.


    The way you weaken Saudi hold is not by giving them ammunition and that is what France has done.
    After this ban, I think Muslims in France are perfectly justified to claim they are being unfairly targeted which will no doubt lead to them falling more in line within their own community and refusing to integrate into mainstream as self protection.

    Quote
    The ordinary majority did not want those things to be imported, they were simply ignored by the ruling elite that looked down upon them and their own culture.  Flirting with the far right is the inevitable result.


    It is the people who elect the Government. The actions of a Government is a representation of them.
    You'd think Europe would have learned from history  Roll Eyes
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #178 - July 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Quote from: Maya on July 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Well I don't care who does what, where and when as long as it doesn't encroach on ME.   As long as nobody tries to force their views and cultures on me I'm not really bothered what anyone else gets up to.

    Wrong or right that's how I feel.


    That is my attitude exactly and because it's like mine. It is of course right Wink

    Let me be the first to say welcome to the forums  dance
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #179 - July 17, 2010, 11:36 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
    The way you weaken Saudi hold is not by giving them ammunition and that is what France has done.
    After this ban, I think Muslims in France are perfectly justified to claim they are being unfairly targeted which will no doubt lead to them falling more in line within their own community and refusing to integrate into mainstream as self protection.


    Personally I think that had France not done it, it would have simply slowed the process at which it happened.  Now they are being driven faster into the hands of the Wahhabis.  There are many things that would alienate the Muslims, starting from the huge difference in attitudes, the culture shock, the conservative feeling at odds with the liberal, sexual insecurity and the lot.

    Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
    It is the people who elect the Government. The actions of a Government is a representation of them.
    You'd think Europe would have learned from history  Roll Eyes


    There is what one calls a Hobson's choice..  To put it a vulgar way it is simply choosing between cow shit and goat shit.. It is still shit in the end.  People are disillusioned by all the main parties everywhere in Western Europe.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
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